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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

When will we know if Scarlet is upgradeable to Dragon ?

My guess the Scarlet upgrade would be the sensor + new boards and ASICs. They may even offer an option to pay X to replace some internals and get let's say 30fps at 5K or pay a lot more and just replace the Scarlet brain with new Epic D. We'll see.
 
Terry,

I guess you and a bunch of other people missed it. In my humble opinion, this thread and all the other threads speculating on if or not there is going to be a dragon upgrade for the Scarlet should not even be up if we are all following the what has been coming directly from the RED TEAM. Again in my humble opinion directly from RED according to Jim, THERE WILL BE A SCARLET UPGRADE TO DRAGON .... caps for emphasis !! The only issues which are pending are the specs and the price.

This link will take you to the original dragon announcement directly from Jim, http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&highlight=Dragon
It states clearly the price of the EPIC upgrade and that the Scarlet upgrade price is TDB (To Be Decided or Determined) which means there is a scarlet upgrade for sure and RED is working on and testing it for release to us scarlet owners.

This link http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon/page2&highlight=Dragon will take you to the second page of this same thread where Jim clearly states and quote
Jannard said:
We are not sure yet of the specs for 6K but it will be at least 85fps. Scarlet specs and numbers have not been determined.

Jim
Click to expand...

And when someone asked about the upgrade path for the RED ONE Jim states and quote
Jannard said:
There is no path for Dragon to the RED ONE. That upgrade path was RED ONE to EPIC.

Jim
Click to expand...

And this he never said about the Scarlet.

Everything above here is fact based on posting by the RED Team, specifically Jim. Below here is a mixture of facts above and my own deductions based on the above.
So in my humble opinion in summary
1. There is an upgrade path for the Scarlet to the dragon.
2. The path is certainly not to purchase an epic.
3. The Epic has priority and this upgrade will come out first and the Scarlet will follow soon after.
4. At the time of Jim's posting 4-16-2012 the specs and the pricing for the scarlet upgrade had not yet been determine but now this is a long time since and I am sure this has been firmed up by now.
5. The way I thought it then which made the most logical sense would be that the epic would be upgraded to a 6K camera for $6K and the scarlet would be a upgraded to a 5K camera for anything between $2K to $5K. Poor cousins.
6. I am expecting an announcement on this from the RED Team at the end of this month, the specs and pricing for the Scarlet upgrade to Dragon and other exciting stuff to take my money.
7. So as for the answer to the thread, we knew the Scarlet would be upgradeable to the Dragon since 16th April 2012. Just do not know when yet.
8. There you go the future ..... in my humble opinion.

Cheers, Oje

Terry VerHaar said:
If you have a source for that info, I'd love to know of it. I may have missed something.
Click to expand...
 
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Oje Unuigboje said:
I guess you and a bunch of other people missed it. In my humble opinion, this thread and all the other threads speculating on if or not there is going to be a dragon upgrade for the Scarlet should not even be up if we are all following the what has been coming directly from the RED TEAM. Again in my humble opinion directly from RED according to Jim, THERE WILL BE A SCARLET UPGRADE TO DRAGON .... caps for emphasis !! The only issues which are pending are the specs and the price.

This link will take you to the original dragon announcement directly from Jim, http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&highlight=Dragon
It states clearly the price of the EPIC upgrade and that the Scarlet upgrade price is TDB (To Be Decided or Determined) which means there is a scarlet upgrade for sure and RED is working on and testing it for release to us scarlet owners.

This link http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon/page2&highlight=Dragon will take you to the second page of this same thread where Jim clearly states and quote


And when someone asked about the upgrade path for the RED ONE Jim states and quote


And this he never said about the Scarlet.

Everything above here is fact based on posting by the RED Team, specifically Jim. Below here is a mixture of facts above and my own deductions based on the above.
So in my humble opinion in summary
1. There is an upgrade path for the Scarlet to the dragon.
2. The path is certainly not to purchase an epic.
3. The Epic has priority and this upgrade will come out first and the Scarlet will follow soon after.
4. At the time of Jim's posting 4-16-2012 the specs and the pricing for the scarlet upgrade had not yet been determine but now this is a long time since and I am sure this has been firmed up by now.
5. The way I thought it then which made the most logical sense would be that the epic would be upgraded to a 6K camera for $6K and the scarlet would be a upgraded to a 5K camera for anything between $2K to $5K. Poor cousins.
6. I am expecting an announcement on this from the RED Team at the end of this month, the specs and pricing for the Scarlet upgrade to Dragon and other exciting stuff to take my money.
7. So as for the answer to the thread, we knew the Scarlet would be upgradeable to the Dragon since 16th April 2012. Just do not know when yet.
8. There you go the future ..... in my humble opinion.

Cheers, Oje
Click to expand...
100% agree. On the RED.COM page for the scarlet it says "Upgrade your sensor, add modules, and embrace a system defined by Obsolescence Obsolete. " -that's pretty much definitive for me on the "IF" part of the question. RED said they are doing a ASIC burn a few weeks ago and mentioned 90 days. That means it will not be till February till they are able to test things, then I'm sure the testing will take a month. RED doesn't want to "guess" how the upgrade will work, they want to know by testing a real unit, which makes perfect sense to me. So i'm expecting a answer in early March 2013.
 
IMO it will be almost impossible for the Scarlet to be upgradable to the "DRAGON" sensor since now there is also a new ASIC to deal with within the electronics, so unless RED pulls an other miracle, and at the cost of having to replace more parts then probably worth the trouble, at the end the cost of doing so could be simply not worth the trouble of going the Scarlet route if Dragon is what you are looking at.

Then again, RED has been known to do strange things, so all is possible, and with the recent price drops it has become more affordable to absorb the extra cost of an upgrade.
 
Oje Unuigboje said:
I thought the dragon was supposed to take the Epic to 6K and the Scarlet to 5K in which case there should not be so much difference in cost of upgrade for Epic or the Scarlet.
Click to expand...

The above quote is what I was looking to get a source for. I hadn't heard that. And, nothing you said or quoted below says that. Where does it mention 5K for Scarlet? I am aware of all the threads you cite. However, Jim, Jarred and others at RED have all acknowledged the difficulty (and likely expense) of bring Scarlet to Dragon specs. When they say something is TBD -that means they don't know what it is yet. And, as Jim is fond of saying, "all things subject to change."

Oje Unuigboje said:
...

Everything above here is fact based on posting by the RED Team, specifically Jim. Below here is a mixture of facts above and my own deductions based on the above.
So in my humble opinion in summary
1. There is an upgrade path for the Scarlet to the dragon.
2. The path is certainly not to purchase an epic.
3. The Epic has priority and this upgrade will come out first and the Scarlet will follow soon after.
4. At the time of Jim's posting 4-16-2012 the specs and the pricing for the scarlet upgrade had not yet been determine but now this is a long time since and I am sure this has been firmed up by now.
5. The way I thought it then which made the most logical sense would be that the epic would be upgraded to a 6K camera for $6K and the scarlet would be a upgraded to a 5K camera for anything between $2K to $5K. Poor cousins.
6. I am expecting an announcement on this from the RED Team at the end of this month, the specs and pricing for the Scarlet upgrade to Dragon and other exciting stuff to take my money.
7. So as for the answer to the thread, we knew the Scarlet would be upgradeable to the Dragon since 16th April 2012. Just do not know when yet.
8. There you go the future ..... in my humble opinion.

Cheers, Oje
Click to expand...

There may very well be an update path from Scarlet to Dragon (I hope so). But there is no assurance it won't involve trading up to an Epic in the process. "TBD" allows for that possibility. We don't know whether the Dragon is a single spec or whether it will be "tiered" for a difference between Scarlet and Epic (if that is even possible).

If the specs and pricing for that upgrade have been determined, nobody but RED knows them yet. Your "estimates" are speculation, just like everyone else's. So, we wait until the November 30th announcement to find out.

As learned very clearly from the adventures of the Scarlet Fixed , "subject to change" can even mean eliminating an option if it turns out not to be feasible.

We wait for real information... :huh:
 
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the scarlet is the same size box as the epic...so if you clean everything out, you can put everything in that fits in the epic box....
but that does not really help...
we know that there was an upgrade path planned...we also know that dragon was supposed to come out this year....
we also know that the epic upgrade is 6000$....and that that number is too low (according to jim it costs more then that) but they will keep the price at that.....
since then the epic has also dropped by 50%.....so the margins are quite a bit smaller and the planned upgrade (for epic) might be at cost for epic.....
so add all this up and the extra cost for scarlet (since it was announced as extra cost, so it won't just be 1500$) also considering the loss at the 6000$ epic price has to be at least 9000$ probably more....which would put a dragon scarlet at the same price as epic is now....and i believe those 2 cameras could co-exist....with different features, each optimized for different things....complementing each other.....and still a little less then the dragon epic...and still a different league then scarlet....

i am a little concerned that we haven't seen anything from dragon....nothing at all....which means that realistically we are looking at summer for epic upgrade roll out....
 
I think it makes business sense for RED to figure out a way to make the Scarlet Dragon - as loud as people say "Just buy an Epic", some people just can't afford, justify, or really need an Epic. By having a sub $10000 (sub $15000 with Dragon?) with Scarlet, RED can reach a hell of a lot more wallets than just with the Epic, since it is after all over $10000 more expensive and a lot of people just can't afford or can't justify a $20000 camera.
 
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All this discussion about a Scarlet Dragon needing to be "affordable" seems, at least to me, to miss a point:

If you can afford a Scarlet, you are already in the "big leagues" as to having a professional camera. I guess what some are suggesting is that there needs to be a $15,000 (give or take) option to fit in between Scarlet and Epic - but called Scarlet Dragon? Will the Epic then be the next step up the ladder with Epic Dragon being the pinnacle? Or, will Scarlet Dragon be a step above the base (existing) Epic? (Which means Scarlet Dragon is less affordable than Epic and wouldn't cil the bill for those who want an "affordable Dragon."

My question is simply, are people suggesting 4 levels? Or will Scarlet and Epic be phased out to give way to their respective Dragon models? I know there isn't anyone outside of RED that knows these things but I am trying to understand what is being suggested.
 
There is the obvious upgrade cost for any Epic or Scarlet to go Dragon, but in terms of producing new cameras moving forward, is there much sense continuing to produce Mysterium X? I know little to nothing about sensor manufacturing, but besides the new R+D costs to recoup, would a Dragon enabled Epic or Scarlet really be that much more costly to produce than an MX? There are new components, which is obviously where the costs are in upgrading from MX, but when producing new cameras I wonder if if would cost Red that much more to produce a Dragon Epic than an MX Epic? So there is the opportunity to create more tiers in their catalogue, OR they keep it simple and just produce Dragon cameras.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
All this discussion about a Scarlet Dragon needing to be "affordable" seems, at least to me, to miss a point:

If you can afford a Scarlet, you are already in the "big leagues" as to having a professional camera. I guess what some are suggesting is that there needs to be a $15,000 (give or take) option to fit in between Scarlet and Epic - but called Scarlet Dragon? Will the Epic then be the next step up the ladder with Epic Dragon being the pinnacle? Or, will Scarlet Dragon be a step above the base (existing) Epic? (Which means Scarlet Dragon is less affordable than Epic and wouldn't cil the bill for those who want an "affordable Dragon."

My question is simply, are people suggesting 4 levels? Or will Scarlet and Epic be phased out to give way to their respective Dragon models? I know there isn't anyone outside of RED that knows these things but I am trying to understand what is being suggested.
Click to expand...

Hi Terry, like yourself, not really trying to suggest anything. Just musing and trying to figure it out a little also.

My thoughts on pricing are in line with Dan P's. Personally, while I look forward to upgrading my Scarlet one day, my eyes are also set on an epic dragon when time and budget allows. But for now, I'm content as is. But with Scarlet upgrades, as Dan said, I do think the affordability for the majority of the user base is a pretty big consideration. And I think it's a tricky situation. I think your 15K in the middle sounds about right to me, but even then I see that as a significant challenge on where do you put the specs, due to epic sitting 4k higher? Dragon Scarlet would have better DR and low light than an epic for 4K less? And then at 7K for the upgrade, even that would likely price out quite a lot of other Scarlet users wouldn't it? Which is what it is. That's cool. I'm not saying don't work and save and etc etc. But in my own businesses when we offer upgrades to customers, (which we do) we want as many as possible to take us up on our offer and hitting the right price point is a pretty major aspect of that.

RED obviously understands and empathises with the financial limits of budget film makers, and has always done so I think. I always believed RED when they said no one was more disappointed about not hitting the 3k for 3k Scarlet than they were... and they have shown a simply unrivalled desire to put professional tools into the hands of all would be professional image makers, with there recent actions more than ever reiterating that affordability is something they take very seriously. 4K R1's for 4K was a crazy stroke of genius I think. The forums everywhere now ring with positive endorsements for RED and excitement far more so than ever before... So Scarlet Dragon... well as it's clearly a different price market to Epics right... and so by my own thoughts to hit it's mark, would therefore need to be priced accordingly to it's user base? But you can't give a whole of something for nothing either. Though, what am I saying, RED do have a habit of that as well...

From a business perspective, I truly can't wait to see how they play this. But I won't be among those that bemoan it however they choose to do so either.
 
Here's my completely unfounded prediction.

$10-13k scarlet to epic dragon upgrade (you send in scarlet) and they give you back a scarlet that's been upgraded epic with dragon sensor.

Here's why this would be interesting -

1. Scarlet owners would get back the same body but with an interior electronics upgrade. This would cost red very little (only relevant boards and sensors to replace instead of full kit). This will allow red to not get stuck with 1000s of old bodies.

2. Epic owner's couldn't complain too much as the scarlet owners are paying more than they did and have to wait weeks/months to get cam back.

3. Current scarlet's can exist as they currently do (but I think there will be a firmware upgrade to match redone functionality).

4. Everybody wins.. Mostly red because they sell more product for less and sill make a killing on addons ($1,200 SSDs for example).
 
Here is everything we know:
- Dragon will be 6K sensor
- Dragon will be 15+ stops of dynamic range
- Dragon is expected to shoot 5K at 120 fps
- per Jim, it should do something like 85 fps at 6K
- Dragon upgrade for Epic will be $6K
- Epic price is currently $19K

This spec list leads me to believe that the Epic upgrade is a SENSOR ONLY upgrade (plus a firmware update). The resolution and dynamic range are sensor characteristics and the 85 fps/6K capability suggests what they can squeeze out of current ASICs. This is the way they upgraded RED ONE from Mysterium to MysteriumX and, coincidentally, for about the same price.

So, what is the distinguishing characteristic of Dragon? Is it 6K? Is it dynamic range of 15+ stops? Is it frame rate? All of these?

From this, I am thinking that some time in the spring of 2013, I will be able to go to the RED store and
a) buy an Epic-X for $19K
b) Upgrade an Epic-X to Epic Dragon for $6K
c) Purchase an Epic Dragon for $25K


What does that mean for Scarlet? Clearly, RED can't just replace the sensor as it can't be driven by the current Scarlet ASICs to give any of those characteristics. If the 6K sensor were dropped into Scarlet, which now does only 12 fps at 5K, it could do what, maybe 4 fps at 6K? 8 at 5K? Could it still get even 24 fps at 4K? Would we have to be satisfied with just the bump to 15 stops; with sensor replacement cost at the same $6K? I can't see that happening.

So, to upgrade Scarlet, you'd have to replace the sensor (with same 6K sensor) PLUS the ASICs. Now, I am guessing that pulling the Scarlet ASICs out to replace them would be too expensive to bother replacing them with anything LESS than Epic level ASICs. And, the labor involved would be WAY more than just a sensor upgrade. So, how does Scarlet Dragon end up being something in between Scarlet-X and Epic-X? What exactly would a Scarlet Dragon be? And how could the upgrade cost not be WAY more than for Epic? ($6K for sensor plus extra labor plus new ASICs.)

Someone will have to explain to me what the spec of a Scarlet Dragon would be and how we get there before I am dissuaded from the idea that the path to upgrade Scarlet is (somehow) "through" Epic.
 
Adam J. Craig said:
Here's my completely unfounded prediction.

$10-13k scarlet to epic dragon upgrade (you send in scarlet) and they give you back a scarlet that's been upgraded epic with dragon sensor.

Here's why this would be interesting -

1. Scarlet owners would get back the same body but with an interior electronics upgrade. This would cost red very little (only relevant boards and sensors to replace instead of full kit). This will allow red to not get stuck with 1000s of old bodies.

2. Epic owner's couldn't complain too much as the scarlet owners are paying more than they did and have to wait weeks/months to get cam back.

3. Current scarlet's can exist as they currently do (but I think there will be a firmware upgrade to match redone functionality).

4. Everybody wins.. Mostly red because they sell more product for less and sill make a killing on addons ($1,200 SSDs for example).
Click to expand...


As for #2 - how are Scarlet owners paying more? They are getting their Dragons for $20-23K in your scenario. Epic owners pay at least $25K. :huh:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Here is everything we know:
- Dragon will be 6K sensor
- Dragon will be 15+ stops of dynamic range
- Dragon is expected to shoot 5K at 120 fps
- per Jim, it should do something like 85 fps at 6K
- Dragon upgrade for Epic will be $6K
- Epic price is currently $19K

This spec list leads me to believe that the Epic upgrade is a SENSOR ONLY upgrade (plus a firmware update). The resolution and dynamic range are sensor characteristics and the 85 fps/6K capability suggests what they can squeeze out of current ASICs. This is the way they upgraded RED ONE from Mysterium to MysteriumX and, coincidentally, for about the same price.

So, what is the distinguishing characteristic of Dragon? Is it 6K? Is it dynamic range of 15+ stops? Is it frame rate? All of these?

From this, I am thinking that some time in the spring of 2013, I will be able to go to the RED store and
a) buy an Epic-X for $19K
b) Upgrade an Epic-X to Epic Dragon for $6K
c) Purchase an Epic Dragon for $25K


What does that mean for Scarlet? Clearly, RED can't just replace the sensor as it can't be driven by the current Scarlet ASICs to give any of those characteristics. If the 6K sensor were dropped into Scarlet, which now does only 12 fps at 5K, it could do what, maybe 4 fps at 6K? 8 at 5K? Could it still get even 24 fps at 4K? Would we have to be satisfied with just the bump to 15 stops; with sensor replacement cost at the same $6K? I can't see that happening.

So, to upgrade Scarlet, you'd have to replace the sensor (with same 6K sensor) PLUS the ASICs. Now, I am guessing that pulling the Scarlet ASICs out to replace them would be too expensive to bother replacing them with anything LESS than Epic level ASICs. And, the labor involved would be WAY more than just a sensor upgrade. So, how does Scarlet Dragon end up being something in between Scarlet-X and Epic-X? What exactly would a Scarlet Dragon be? And how could the upgrade cost not be WAY more than for Epic? ($6K for sensor plus extra labor plus new ASICs.)

Someone will have to explain to me what the spec of a Scarlet Dragon would be and how we get there before I am dissuaded from the idea that the path to upgrade Scarlet is (somehow) "through" Epic.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think your points are very well made Terry and it's a great post. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

Adam, as Terry said, that would be a cheaper path to an epic dragon, than buying an epic and getting dragon... Can't see them doing that. And would definitely cause a shit storm. Especially among those who paid pre price cut..I'd wager they won't be tallying their investment to epic dragon as being 25K. Which of course it isn't.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Here is everything we know:
- Dragon will be 6K sensor
- Dragon will be 15+ stops of dynamic range
- Dragon is expected to shoot 5K at 120 fps
- per Jim, it should do something like 85 fps at 6K
- Dragon upgrade for Epic will be $6K
- Epic price is currently $19K

This spec list leads me to believe that the Epic upgrade is a SENSOR ONLY upgrade (plus a firmware update). The resolution and dynamic range are sensor characteristics and the 85 fps/6K capability suggests what they can squeeze out of current ASICs. This is the way they upgraded RED ONE from Mysterium to MysteriumX and, coincidentally, for about the same price.

So, what is the distinguishing characteristic of Dragon? Is it 6K? Is it dynamic range of 15+ stops? Is it frame rate? All of these?

From this, I am thinking that some time in the spring of 2013, I will be able to go to the RED store and
a) buy an Epic-X for $19K
b) Upgrade an Epic-X to Epic Dragon for $6K
c) Purchase an Epic Dragon for $25K


What does that mean for Scarlet? Clearly, RED can't just replace the sensor as it can't be driven by the current Scarlet ASICs to give any of those characteristics. If the 6K sensor were dropped into Scarlet, which now does only 12 fps at 5K, it could do what, maybe 4 fps at 6K? 8 at 5K? Could it still get even 24 fps at 4K? Would we have to be satisfied with just the bump to 15 stops; with sensor replacement cost at the same $6K? I can't see that happening.

So, to upgrade Scarlet, you'd have to replace the sensor (with same 6K sensor) PLUS the ASICs. Now, I am guessing that pulling the Scarlet ASICs out to replace them would be too expensive to bother replacing them with anything LESS than Epic level ASICs. And, the labor involved would be WAY more than just a sensor upgrade. So, how does Scarlet Dragon end up being something in between Scarlet-X and Epic-X? What exactly would a Scarlet Dragon be? And how could the upgrade cost not be WAY more than for Epic? ($6K for sensor plus extra labor plus new ASICs.)

Someone will have to explain to me what the spec of a Scarlet Dragon would be and how we get there before I am dissuaded from the idea that the path to upgrade Scarlet is (somehow) "through" Epic.
Click to expand...

First of all, I do not know what the technical challenges of upgrading the sensors of either the the EPIC or the SCARLET are and I will not go into it but I know that the because it is electronics that even with its better specs, the Dragon sensor will be cheaper to make than the current mysterium X sensor. Also I do not know how many parts the two sensors will have in common, they could have a lot of nothing in common. For these two points it would make no sense for RED to continue to make two sensors side by side and the most logical step in time would be to phase out the manufacture of the mysterium X sensor in favor of the better Dragon. This to me means that once the dragon sensors come out there will no longer be a need to manufacture the mysterium X and only the dragon will be manufactured because having to run only one production line for what will be a most likely cheaper Dragon will save RED tons of money. So there will be only one EPIC with a dragon sensor to be sold most likely at US$ 25K. And the older already sold EPICs will have the chance to upgrade to Dragon for 6K as it currently stands.
As it stands today, both the EPIC and the Scarlet use the same sensor and just that the Scarlet internal workings has been dumbbed down to the the spec it currently has. I do not see why this would be any different for the Dragon sensor. The Dragon Scarlet would have exactly the same sensor as the Dragon Epic just as it is today and the specs would be determined by RED and my expectation would be a 5K 30fps or even 60fps camera for all new cameras with the possibility to upgrade the old cameras for what i think will be between US$2K to US$5K max. This way the new Scarlet is priced lower than the old Epic with the specs equally lower than the old Epic too.

Then the war cry of RED is to render obsolesce obsolete and it would be terrifically disappointing to me and a lot of other scarlet owners if RED were to come up with the line that I should get an EPIC in order to upgrade to a Dragon sensor !! Not only would I not be able to afford it at this point in time but RED would have failed catastrophically for me by failing the very first test its mantra in not being able to upgrade the Scarlet to the Dragon sensor at a reasonable price as compared to the Epic as they would have made my Scarlet obsolete.

If the EPIC is truly the upgrade path of the Scarlet to Dragon, with the RED One gone the BT way and the Scarlet going the Epic way will restrict RED to a one product company, the EPIC. A very dangerous move and direction for RED to be moving towards especially if one of these new products comes into direct competition with the Epic and the consumers prefer this other product. It is simple, as a one product company, RED and the EPic will be toast in a short time, even with the dragon.

Finally the the sub US$ 10K or there about market is huge and the sole reason for the Scarlet. I for one would have been holding a Sony now if the Scarlet was not produced at the time it was and for the price. We all saw how quickly those BT Scarlets flew of the shelves recently and for each sale of a Scarlet, RED probably sell the same dollar amount or more gross in accessories with a much higher net than the camera by itself. RED will not be crazy or stupid enough to to dictate that path to Dragon is the Epic. It will be arrogant and a gross negligence on the part of RED management and they will deserve whenever comes to them when Blackmagic and all the new 4K cameras coming out take over that segment of market from RED without so much as a fight or a squeak.

All in all MY prediction is that the scarlet after dragon will become a 5K camera priced between US$11K to US$14K body only. Shoot at 5K and come up with a true 4K product after post.
 
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With the Scarlet at 5K and the Epic at 6k all dragon sensors and all priced appropriately at close to their current levels plus sensor upgrades and all the competition new products coming in at 4K resolution or less, RED stands to keep it's competitive lead in resolution Ks and pricing for some time to come and leave competition to play catch up for the foreseeable near future.
 
Oje Unuigboje said:
With the Scarlet at 5K and the Epic at 6k all dragon sensors and all priced appropriately at close to their current levels plus sensor upgrades and all the competition new products coming in at 4K resolution or less, RED stands to keep it's competitive lead in resolution Ks and pricing for some time to come and leave competition to play catch up for the foreseeable near future.
Click to expand...

I think your reasoning on the marketing side makes some sense. Product development is another matter and I am not seeing how RED can transition overnight to a single new sensor base. Less than two weeks and we'll get some hints. :smiley:
 
So... Anyone loves a speculation, right?

My guesses...

1st, what we know. Epic needs asics upgrades to host a Dragon, too...

My guesses...

RED wil release a supercharged "top of the line" Dragon with 4k monitoring, internal offline recording, dual lcd/evf contacts, iPad remote-app ready with repositioned contacts and possibly xlr's and on-body menusystem à la Alexa/sony and up to 240 fps 6k for around or above 55k $. They will offer a 1:2 compression option on this beast.

Sensor will be 4:3 to take advantage of anamorph glass and be more versatile for stills.
It will have a true end-to-end 16 bit workflow.

All current Epic owners (up to a set purchasing date, as that has been the practice so far) will be able to upgrade to an Epic/dragon. As this will get hardware updates, we will see better performances from Epic/Dragon than what we would expect on an upgrade...
Compression will be capped at 3:1 on the current "red" ssd's. Max framerate @ 6k, 80'ish.

It will have a 16bit ad, but record RAW at 12 or 14 bits.

In the process, scarlet owners will be offered an upgrade to "current/todays" Epics for 7500, as RED will have a lot of surpluss parts from todays Epic MX being updated to Dragon.

Scarlet owners will be offered to upgrade to "Epic Dragon" for the difference between what they paid for their body and 25k$

That was all from the Norwegian speculationary jury...
 
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