When is the cheaper Scarlet fixed coming?

[Wayne Morellini]

When is the cheaper Scarlet fixed coming, Jim?

 

[jimhare]

It's not. I know I'm not the Jim you were asking for but this is an accurate answer.

They canned all previous specs and models and the Scarlet is 4k and a subset of the Epic, not its own beast.

This was all laid out at the Nov 3 announcement.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Well, that was what they were inducating before changing suddenly. Would have been great if they said fixed is gone, and something else is coming a few months before. I think I am the only person, I know of, to have my post canceled, my crime, asking somebody to confirm the scarlet resolution, and them getting it wrong . However, what is next? The s35 scarlet is an expensive beast I had long decided was too much for me in my condition, or for many videographers and documenters.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Well, that was what they were inducating before changing suddenly. Would have been great if they said fixed is gone, and something else is coming a few months before. I think I am the only person, I know of, to have my post canceled, my crime, asking somebody to confirm the scarlet resolution, and them getting it wrong . However, what is next? The s35 scarlet is an expensive beast I had long decided was too much for me in my condition, or for many videographers and documenters.

There is probably going to be quite a few large sensor HD cameras with fixed lenses out there very soon. Maybe not shooting raw but any way. I guess RED decided not to compete with the camcorders that you can buy at the airport, instead they went for the pro film market only.

I actually think the decision to make the scarlet at all was wrong. It would have been much better if RED made epic and then stayed, with a narrow focus, making all the best out of one camera. Since "product differentiation" is what is killing most creative companies out there. So to me the best would be one camera at the time. Then progress would be faster and we would probably have our quad battery modules by now.. if it was not for all those scarlet orders... LOL.

 

[Ben Coleman]

Well, that was what they were inducating before changing suddenly. Would have been great if they said fixed is gone, and something else is coming a few months before. I think I am the only person, I know of, to have my post canceled, my crime, asking somebody to confirm the scarlet resolution, and them getting it wrong . However, what is next? The s35 scarlet is an expensive beast I had long decided was too much for me in my condition, or for many videographers and documenters.

I am one of those "videographers" as well and I bought a Scarlet-X. People that have been complaining about the price of this camera have been bothering me for quite awhile. The low budget market has been spoiled by Canon's "mistake" with video on the 5d and 7d. They now think that all video like that should be under 2 grand. My first HPX170 was over $6,000! To get into the real video market, tv or news shooting, you were looking at BetaCam SP cameras that were 20 to 30 grand in some cases. Then lets not forget studio camera setups that start at the $100,000 mark. Want to shoot S35 digital cinema and own the camera, before Red that would set you back $250,000. The Scarlet-X is a steal!

Personally I am somewhat glad that there isn't a cheap Scarlet. It keeps everyone and their brother from getting one and competing with me. Sure a cheap camera would have been great, then I could have bought 2 right away instead of just one. In the grand scheme of video equipment history, the Scarlet-X is the lowest cost camera for the features EVER!!!!!

Jim did say the fixed is gone, two months ago. This had been hinted to earlier as well when they said they were having issues with the lens.

 

[jamesbridges]

Hey Wayne,
It is highly unlikely that the fixed will see the light of day anytime soon. The main issue they were having was the lens not holding focus throughout the zoom range.
Along with the changing times of 4K resolution. RED wants to develop cameras to be as future-proof as possible, hence another reason to drop the fixed-it was 3K resolution.
Like most people, I was disappointed, but my Scarlet will be a much better investment.
My suggestion is if you are looking for an inexpensive large format video camera try the AF100, I use it alongside my HDX900. The AF100 has been a great money maker for me this year. Just a suggestion.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

Personally I am somewhat glad that there isn't a cheap Scarlet. It keeps everyone and their brother from getting one and competing with me.

Money doesn't buy talent. But in the 4K market, watch the next photokina next september. 4K cams at 6 or 7 grand are coming.

 

[Ulf Krentz]

snip
I actually think the decision to make the scarlet at all was wrong.
snip

Actually I think it was their smartest move. Scarlet and Epic share the same basics and accessories, more units sold will make production costs more efficient and push earnings up. May be this route will lead them to loose their traditional waiting issues in the end, at least I hope so. And don´t forget, once somebody reaches the limitations of his scarlet he only needs to upgrade to the EPIC brain. Sounds like a clever solution to me.

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Jim explained that they wanted 4K to be the model and this killed the 3K fixed lens Scarlet. They decided to make a pro camera and not a soccer mom camera. As Ben Coleman has already stated, before the Red One pro digital cinema cameras were going from $100,000 (Sony F900) to $250,000 (Sony F35 and Arri D-21). We all got spoiled by Red's price model.
And I would assume that they made a good decision by how many orders for Scarlet have come in. (thousands)

 

[Wayne Morellini]

You guys crack me up.

There is probably going to be quite a few large sensor HD cameras with fixed lenses out there very soon. Maybe not shooting raw but any way. I guess RED decided not to compete with the camcorders that you can buy at the airport, instead they went for the pro film market only.

I actually think the decision to make the scarlet at all was wrong. It would have been much better if RED made epic and then stayed, with a narrow focus, making all the best out of one camera. Since "product differentiation" is what is killing most creative companies out there. So to me the best would be one camera at the time. Then progress would be faster and we would probably have our quad battery modules by now.. if it was not for all those scarlet orders... LOL.

They certainly did, it is basically a Epic-S type camera. However a 4k s16 fixed/mount Scarlet would have been less competition, and killed the market for the competition.

Hey Wayne,
It is highly unlikely that the fixed will see the light of day anytime soon. The main issue they were having was the lens not holding focus throughout the zoom range.
Along with the changing times of 4K resolution. RED wants to develop cameras to be as future-proof as possible, hence another reason to drop the fixed-it was 3K resolution.
Like most people, I was disappointed, but my Scarlet will be a much better investment.
My suggestion is if you are looking for an inexpensive large format video camera try the AF100, I use it alongside my HDX900. The AF100 has been a great money maker for me this year. Just a suggestion.

So, not missing lens parts but lens design. An electronic lens could auto adjust focus to compensate could it? The reason to drop 3k was there before it was first announced, let alone after sooo manyyy years of waiting. I was very disappointed, I had been waiting since around 2005, when I first suggested a camera of that sort of spec alongside another of one of the spec of the Redone, I think in the original suggestion thread for the redone.

I am one of those "videographers" as well and I bought a Scarlet-X. People that have been complaining about the price of this camera have been bothering me for quite awhile. The low budget market has been spoiled by Canon's "mistake" with video on the 5d and 7d. They now think that all video like that should be under 2 grand. My first HPX170 was over $6,000! To get into the real video market, tv or news shooting, you were looking at BetaCam SP cameras that were 20 to 30 grand in some cases. Then lets not forget studio camera setups that start at the $100,000 mark. Want to shoot S35 digital cinema and own the camera, before Red that would set you back $250,000. The Scarlet-X is a steal!

Personally I am somewhat glad that there isn't a cheap Scarlet. It keeps everyone and their brother from getting one and competing with me. Sure a cheap camera would have been great, then I could have bought 2 right away instead of just one. In the grand scheme of video equipment history, the Scarlet-X is the lowest cost camera for the features EVER!!!!!

Sony Nex-5n, maybe a Hacked GH2, none with true resolution. 4k is cheap in technology terms, red code is not.

I don't think you are one of them, those low end guys pack fixed lens, or at the most something handable like a Canon video camera. Small lens helps portability. They are also almost the biggest potential market, from New York to country Victoria to India and Pakistan, cheaper professionally used cameras rule.

The lens issue, was supposed to be a parts issue, and even if not it would not be much of a hint, people would assume they could design around it, even if it had to be 10% longer, very acceptable.

Thanks Ben.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Jim explained that they wanted 4K to be the model and this killed the 3K fixed lens Scarlet. They decided to make a pro camera and not a soccer mom camera. As Ben Coleman has already stated, before the Red One pro digital cinema cameras were going from $100,000 (Sony F900) to $250,000 (Sony F35 and Arri D-21). We all got spoiled by Red's price model.
And I would assume that they made a good decision by how many orders for Scarlet have come in. (thousands)

Tens of thousands for a cheap 4k fixed, two years before maybe even more than tens of thousands. Soccer mums, guys, you insult low end professionals and ardent video hobbyists and photographers, as well as sports physiologists and scientists. If I was making cameras I would be happy to have their sales on board to boost numbers and lower costs.

 

[George Butterfield]

When is the cheaper Scarlet fixed coming, Jim?

Wayne, don't you follow the RED SAGA? The fixed RED is "on the shelf" for now. Who knows what the future will bring. A 6K fixed 24fps only Cam, just for Cinema? Would it be difficult for an 18 to 50 Zoom to cover 6K?

 

[Imran Farouk]

The fixed had lens issues which would take away from resources of pushing forward the EPIC and Scarlet platforms, especially since the fixed was said to be part of the first wave of Scarlets.

I'd guess it will come but not any time soon and not within the next year or two. RED will need to get its footing right with manufacturing which its already made large strides in doing so. Further a long the line when they feel they have free time they may go back to the project but at the end of the day the business still needs to run and to even employee a team to sit down and sort that lens issue, time is not something one can pay freely for as there would likely be no date even able to be set for such a fix on the lens by a team even just dedicated to sorting it.

Going forward with the various projects RED has already in the pipeline will mean that when/if the fixed does come out...it'll probably be in 3-5 years time and if it does indeed come out, you'll be seeing features for price ratio that is unheard of. Though don't hold ur breathe any time soon.

The Scarlet-X is indeed like EPIC-S, not the same frame rates but it means that RED has given an even lower price point camera then the R1 to push further the 4K revolution. It also means that firmware and advancements can happen a lot faster so no sense beating this already dead horse. Many were unhappy but as many unhappy there were more happy with the Scarlet-X I'm sure and once hands on, its an amazing machine I'm sure...
The EPIC itself is a dream but being able to get something thats as close to the EPIC and shoots higher resolution then most cameras of the same size...it's really something special.

Remember. RED said 4K is the future. They'll eventually say 5K,6K and so forth but 4K is their base point, to go lower would've been nice for a lot of people but would've not worked out for what RED intended. 4K is 'good enough' beyond that is just adding more cream to the pie. So the next fixed you'll see, thanks to long R&D on the current systems will lead to a potentially cheaper 4K and lighter 4K fixed camera. RED made the EPIC/Scarlet the way it is in less than 10 years. Give them 10 years an imagine what happens with everything that was scraped or shelved.

 

[Björn Benckert]

It's spelled progress... A canon mount is like a fixed lens but better...
RED realized that the internal electronics of any dos lens is to say the least of very high standard. Why? Because its technology and research is payed of by millions of still photographers world wide during the last 30 years or so. Applying a electronic canon mount to your brain is far superior than a fixed lens scarlet. it's cheaper, leaves more options and for all needs and purposes a better way to go. It's so good so the canon crew has not yet figured it out. Pulling focus electronically with internal motors inside the lens is superior to most focus motors, even better than focus motors that costs about the same as a scarlet. Why invent when you can adapt whats all ready there.

So a canon mount and a Iphone profocus app for the canon mounts and I think the talk about the fixed lens scarlets is something we can leave behind...

 

[Brian Self]

Yeah I was excited about the 3k for 3k but I own a photography studio up here in Canada with my wife, and the thought of one more soccer mom with a pro camera makes me want to sit on a table saw. My city is over saturated with rich people who are board out of their minds and for some reason choose to buy cameras and coming out with a product that is still affordable for professionals but keeps the company in the professional market, is SMART. RED is learning from Canon's mistakes.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Jim explained that they wanted 4K to be the model and this killed the 3K fixed lens Scarlet.

With respect Peter, that's a long way from the whole story. As Jim himself told us: "No 8X Fixed. We had terminal issues with the lens. If you are sad, just think about us. All those development dollars down the drain."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...EMENT-Feedback&p=856011&viewfull=1#post856011

I think in another post he amplified this, saying it the 'terminal issue' was that it had proved impossible to make the lens hold focus during a full-range zoom.

Yes, I'm sure views moving towards '3K isn't enough any more' were a factor too - but if the lens had worked, Scarlet Fixed would very likely have been on sale quite some time ago.


Mike

 

[Pete Lutz]

This thread is so 2011.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

I think in another post he amplified this, saying it the 'terminal issue' was that it had proved impossible to make the lens hold focus during a full-range zoom.

Yes, I'm sure views moving towards '3K isn't enough any more' were a factor too - but if the lens had worked, Scarlet Fixed would very likely have been on sale quite some time ago.

That doesn't explain totally why they cancelled also the interchangeable lense version. No problem of focus at all with that one.

 

[PatrickW]

That doesn't explain totally why they cancelled also the interchangeable lense version. No problem of focus at all with that one.

Likely the economies of scale were being used to leverage the massive demand for the fixed model to bring down the prince of the cinema model to crazy low prices, and with the loss of volume in no longer made sense to have separate production in comparison to speed binned epics.

 

[Matt Bowden]

This thread is so 2011.

I totally agree. I feel like this has already been covered SOOOOOOO many times.