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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Whats Next After Dragon From Red????

Björn Benckert said:
Having a mount that has a flange distance so long so most lenses can not fit and such small diameter that only allows for small image circles can not be the way of the future and thats why I think it's kind of a obsolete standard. There is so many other mounts that has gone out of fashion trough the years so I see no reason to think that PL will be any different. PL came after Arri bayonet, as there was a.... need for a larger diameter.... and now arri is moving on to Maxi PL mount or XPL mount... A new format and a new standard. But as the formats will change just about every other year now I think The arri XPL mount will for sure be one standard but I think there will also be something bigger / closer to the sensor kind of mounts that can pretty much take on any lens with a simple adaptor ring. That would be the most logical solution, who or what company would set such standard is difficult to know.

PL is built for a 45 deg spinning mirror and 35mm filmback. Thats why it has a rather long flange distance and rather small diameter... that combo is what will kill it.
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As to what mount is better suited to digital filming- no spinning mirrors, nearest to film plane for exact focus and keeping things compact and light, and if REDs next bump in sensor size is to ff35, as I hope, that mount already exists with a gazillion great lenses- Leica M.
 
I'd love to see:

Full Frame sensor
Same resolution - bigger pixels / less noise / more ISO
More flexible DSMC configuration options
10GbE or Thunderbolt tethered shooting
 
DJ Meyer said:
I'd love to see:

Full Frame sensor
Same resolution - bigger pixels / less noise / more ISO
More flexible DSMC configuration options
10GbE or Thunderbolt tethered shooting
Click to expand...

+Global shutter............!

Sunil Prem
 
How about a plastic body scarlet priced to compete with the C300 replacement? Lightweight for Aerial shooting. Lightweight and ergonomically designed for run and gun handheld shooting.

I know, sacrilege right? But man, that c300 is a great camera. Love my epic, but it's not the right camera for every job.
 
Thomas Koch said:
How about a plastic body scarlet priced to compete with the C300 replacement? Lightweight for Aerial shooting. Lightweight and ergonomically designed for run and gun handheld shooting.

I know, sacrilege right? But man, that c300 is a great camera. Love my epic, but it's not the right camera for every job.
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The C300 is, to me, the most overhyped body design. I can see the appeal for some things, but by and large it is neither here, nor there.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Personally, I'd rather they increase the size slightly if it would allow better heat management.
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I would expect it to get smaller and cooler. Most of the volume of Dragon is probably its heatsink. As you reduce power consumption by using better chip fabrication you'll use less and less power and therefore generate less and less heat. The 5D for instance has no fan and is comparably very small.
 
From what I gather, heat management is one of the main problems with DSLR's shooting video for long periods of a time, and we've all read about the fan issues with the Epic body and the ways it has had to be improved over time -- if better electronics allow the camera to run cooler, then I think the Epic body size can stay the same... but I think it would be tempting fate to try to cram things into an even smaller body. Keep in mind that the really small cameras on the market are not well-suited for shooting hours of dialogue, they are best-suited for shorter runs.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I would expect it to get smaller and cooler. Most of the volume of Dragon is probably its heatsink. As you reduce power consumption by using better chip fabrication you'll use less and less power and therefore generate less and less heat. The 5D for instance has no fan and is comparably very small.
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Hope it wont be small as 5D.Think about mounting Cinetape remote focus etc. on 5D.
 
Personally i'm good with the size and honestly would love if they would allow you to adapt your body and just change out the internals. Not sure if thats possible though. But it would make things a lot easier.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think the path is quite clear. Bigger sensors, more DR and better signal to noise ratios that's whats matter. The rest is something the film industry has learned to find work arounds for from day one.

Of those three I think bigger sensors is the next step for sure.
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You're probably right, and I'm probably sad at that.

RED have, for fairly obvious reasons, chased the top end, the big names, made the camera that has credibility in the most serious Hollywood productions - and put that technology in the hands of the rest of us at a price that's affordable, and that's great, and I'm grateful. But that's not always what I want. You don't always have to aim high. There's more to filmmaking and camera making than creating a crazy machine that Cronenweth can blow all our socks off with.

What would *I* *like* to see from RED next? I can sum that up in one phrase: a 4K Ikonoscop.

I really liked the concept of that camera. I may still buy one, for all that they seem pretty defunct now.

What I would like a LOT more is the same camera, but made by RED, with a 4K S16 Dragon-tech sensor. There's a LOT of lovely S16 glass out there that can look good with 4K resolution. A pukka S16 RED, small, light - like Ikonoscop - but with a 4K sensor and Graeme's magic Redcode Raw.

Not everything needs 35mm. Not everything WANTS 35mm. A compact lightweight RED 4K Ikonoscop, a set of cheap S16 Superspeeds, and I would be in heaven. And it could be pretty cheap; at S16 size, sensor chip yields should be high, and electronics cost low.

That's what *I* would like to be next from RED. Very much doubt it will happen, but you asked...

Although, yeah, a full-frame RED DSLR has a certain attraction too :-)

Mike
 
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I think "what's next" defines the philosophy of the concept of RED.
At the moment, RED is a system which employs a large studio and can afford indy kino creators.

Now there is a trend in the reduction of the body and an increase in the matrix.
This marketing raises a lot of foam.. But Aphrodite emerged from the foam too :thumbsup:

And the next step in the development of the technique and art of shooting the kino may be the creation of an accessible system multi-camera shooting.

Need to do a cybernetic system 3D (or 4D?=)) multi-camera shooting movie controlled by thought (for indy kino creators too):thumbup:
 
For me, RED missed a trick when Aaton went under a couple of years ago. A shrewd purchase of that brand and using their tech to bring out a Dragon-based Aaton camera would have been amazing - and would surely have won over many film die-hards in the process.

The ergonomics argument against Epic is valid, this would have killed it.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
What would *I* *like* to see from RED next? I can sum that up in one phrase: a 4K Ikonoscop.

I really liked the concept of that camera. I may still buy one, for all that they seem pretty defunct now.

What I would like a LOT more is the same camera, but made by RED, with a 4K S16 Dragon-tech sensor. There's a LOT of lovely S16 glass out there that can look good with 4K resolution. A pukka S16 RED, small, light - like Ikonoscop - but with a 4K sensor and Graeme's magic Redcode Raw.

Not everything needs 35mm. Not everything WANTS 35mm. A compact lightweight RED 4K Ikonoscop, a set of cheap S16 Superspeeds, and I would be in heaven. And it could be pretty cheap; at S16 size, sensor chip yields should be high, and electronics cost low.

That's what *I* would like to be next from RED. Very much doubt it will happen, but you asked...

Although, yeah, a full-frame RED DSLR has a certain attraction too :-)

Mike
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I like this idea also, more depth of field is sometimes wanted, plus a ton of beautiful old 16m lenses nobody cares about these days. Lets head towards red's own original idea of more then one size fits all. A 16mm sensor size very small form factor for these needs and I can think of many (aerials, movi, crash-cam, etc) utiizing forgotten cheep lenses. Then current "cine size" sensor camera for the masses, then id love to see a larger formatt 3x4 probably at least full frame 35mm (if not medium formatt 4x3) in a "production friendlier" size camera body would be awesome. Again tons of long forgotten lenses out there, would make that part of the equation much easier to reach for lens solutions for those that wanted the larger sensor.

4x3 sensors should be offered in all "high end" pro cameras, and a Pro camera line-up could have 2-3 different sized cameras for different applications. The Movi camera needs are very different then the Production Dialog camera requirements. One size cannot "fit all" and do it all as well as a Pro camera should do.
 
Yes please, an ENG 2/3 - 4K sensor camera !!! Afterall I got into my Epic lured by the infamous 2/3 sensor 3K for 3K !
 
How do you think the current crop of 2/3 HD lenses would handel a 4K 2/3 sensor. I do love the idea of a 2/3 4K sensor provided some of the 2/3 lenses could resolve close to the sensors resolution . For a lot of my work more depth of field would be great.
 
Enrique Blein said:
Yes please, an ENG 2/3 - 4K sensor camera !!! Afterall I got into my Epic lured by the infamous 2/3 sensor 3K for 3K !
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The smartest move Red made was dumping the idea of a 3K camera. Especially now that the dust is settling. Prior to the Scarlet announcement I was certainly one who voiced thoughts and concerns about a 2/3rds system. However, Jim puts it best:

Jannard said:
RED makes professional cameras.

DSMC means digital stills and motion camera. Stills need to be higher resolution than 3K. So does motion.

What seemed like a good idea 3 years ago is not a good idea now nor will it be a good idea going forward.

Additionally, a 2/3" sensor is not big enough.

The world has moved past small sensors and low resolution.

Jim
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At this point I don't know if we'll see new bodies and sensor designs that shoot under 5K. Though you can shoot with them under 5K for sure.
 
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