What we need to convince more DPs on Dragon

Gunleik Groven · Jan 29, 2014

John Marchant said:
Your cam is in my safe mwahahaha! Nice of you to join in on this- I want people to know this is genuine, not about points scoring. More images in the wild benefit all of us in the long run.

Agreed.

And I am a bit busy when my cam comes back...

Brian Boyer · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Yes but guys also have skin. So do children. Babies. Older people, women who aren't models... etc etc etc.

I actually wasn't coming at it from the whole point of view of identity politics. You make a great point that there is lots of this sort of stuff out there anyway and having something that looks quite fashion or very broadway might show an element of production because people do work on this stuff. HOWEVER, people also can shoot footage of watches, cars, buildings cake, chocolate, coffee, even movies. There was even some nice stills of a car early on showing the dynamic range. If all the footage coming out of the dragon is of women in their underwear or whatever, then people might be led to believe that the camera would be great for shooting soft porn and only think of it in that context.

…and people have used Dragon to shoot a topless man, clothed men, an elderly man, children, lightbulbs, lanterns, fire, more fire, a rusty pipe, a courtyard, flowers, dogs, an elephant, color charts, clothing (not on people), cityscapes, sweeping landscapes, lava, etc.

Anyone who thinks Dragon would be perfect for soft porn a) is absolutely right and b) just wants to shoot soft porn, regardless of whatever other types of image examples exist out there. ;-)

My point wasn't exactly (or necessarily) that imagery like what's shown in the video is out there in reputable productions so that in itself is a de facto validation, although it may be true to a certain extent.

I could be wrong but I got the impression that, if this were, say, recreations of dance numbers from the top five Broadway shows from the last decade, done for a piece that showcases the success of the alumni of a prestigious NY dance school, Robert himself would've had much less of a problem with the imagery because of the context.

My main point was that Robert found the video repugnant because he found it to be tacky. I didn't include it when I quoted him but he also thought RED selling the R1 for $4000 was a tacky move. He seems to primarily have a problem with what he perceives as tackiness.

It seemed to me that he threw the whole disrespectful to women thing in there to help shore up an otherwise subjective argument based on individual taste, especially since he says he has no problem with nudity. Take away the degrading to women element and it's just one guy publicly crapping on another guy's work.

Brian Boyer · Jan 29, 2014

Robert Ruffo New said:
John I've seen lost of great work from you, and I'm sure that you are a great person who indeed respects women. But maybe next time you should think about what your directing choices communicate to an audience, because whether you are focussing on such choices or not, the information still gets sent out. I stand behind the position that the girl in this video is acting like a stripper. Whether or not that was her choice or yours, it's still what she's doing, and it comes off as pretty tacky as does your music choice- and in this context it says (whether this was a desired conscious choice on your part or not) that you feel this kind of behavior is a desirable ideal. There are many ways to be sexy, and a large number of those other ways have the women come off an intelligent and empowered, all the while making men drool, and it has nothing to do with how much clothing they are wearing or not. The woman in your video in my opinion could best be described as coming off like a love doll with a pulse.

The lighting and framing are superb - maybe next time hire a separate director if you don't have time to focus on acting choices yourself. If you don't see the distinctions I am making here, or other members of this forum fail to understand them, or even why the music re-enforces this perception, with all due respect that doesn't mean that the distinctions don't exist or are not perceivable by others.

As best as I can remember, many stripper dance moves infiltrated the mainstream back in the late '90s. I distinctly remember talking with friends about it and I kept saying it was the "Age of the Stripper." It was everywhere and widely accepted.

It was so prevalent that the woman I was dating at the time had an 8-year-old niece who was part of a dance troupe. I didn't attend but she told me much of the dance recital consisted of stripper moves (of the tamer variety, but still).

They were laughing about it because it was unexpected and a little shocking but ultimately kind of cute and innocent because the girls didn't know anything about stripping and you could see older girls and women doing the same moves at weddings and family gatherings. It was merely a sign of the times.

Little girls skipping around in pink tutus and fairy wings were for the 3-year-olds. The 8-year-olds had stripper moves and leopard-print leotards. A picture of the girl in that leopard print outfit sat on the refrigerator at her grandparent's house for years.

Today, I have a friend who is VERY into pole dancing as a form of exercise and recreation and has one installed in her house, if I'm not mistaken.

More contemporary dance choreography and that found historically in burlesque shows and strip clubs probably borrow from each other quite often. And both borrow heavily from ballet. There's probably never been a stripper who hasn't done a plié.

I guess I'm saying dancing like a stripper is much less frowned upon than actually being a stripper and being one is more what you're equating the video to.

David Battistella · Jan 29, 2014

See,

Threads need to get all personal. What was the question here?

One guy thinks it's porn another guy thinks it's art.

What are we going to say next here? that some scenes in "The girl with the dragon tattoo" portray red in a bad way because there are extremely graphic violent sex scenes? And that RED is somehow responsible for that? Or that the word TATTOO in the title suggests it's a movie about bikers instead of an extremely brilliant empowered woman hero?

Fuck guys, wake up.

Battistella

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Brian Boyer said:
…and people have used Dragon to shoot a topless man, clothed men, an elderly man, children, lightbulbs, lanterns, fire, more fire, a rusty pipe, a courtyard, flowers, dogs, an elephant, color charts, clothing (not on people), cityscapes, sweeping landscapes, lava, etc.

Okay I want to see these videos! :yesnod:
Can you put some links my way because for some reasons I've only been getting to see the footage with the sexy models etc!

I would especially like to see the elephant, the fire, the lava and the lanterns! Those all sound awesome and have passed me by somehow!

The still that Mr Groven found was even a surprise to me so maybe there are some hidden gems out there!

Freya

Ulf Krentz · Jan 29, 2014

Freya, here´s the lava

Dragonfire: Extreme Cinematography

Cheers, Ulf

Gunleik Groven · Jan 29, 2014

Hm...

I could add:

High detail cityscapes, water, really dressed men and cars, night cityscapes and a bit more.

I am thinking of setting up a thread with "truely decent Dragon material"

(Actually it is only halfway a joke...)

Vadim Bobkovsky · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Yes but guys also have skin. So do children. Babies. Older people, women who aren't models... etc etc etc.

Here's an example of just that by the great Peter Lyons Collister, ASC. Now that's how you do cute Dragon test.

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Gunleik Groven said:
Hm...

I could add:

High detail cityscapes, water, really dressed men and cars, night cityscapes and a bit more.

I am thinking of setting up a thread with "truely decent Dragon material"

(Actually it is only halfway a joke...)

It's not a bad idea, I'm still plowing through the Lava thread to find the footage!
Would be good to have a thread with only footage.

Big thanks for hooking me up with the lava Ulf!

Freya

Phil Holland · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Would be good to have a thread with only footage.

It would wouldn't it?

Shot on Red Dragon

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Finally got to find the Volcano footage!
Very awesome and totally appropriate for a dragon! Love it!
A bit dissapointed that there were only 11 seconds tho...

(I know what you are thinking, whatdya want the guy went down a fr***** volcano!!! but all the same...)

Would be great cut into a montage tho!

Freya

Brian Boyer · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Okay I want to see these videos! :yesnod:
Can you put some links my way because for some reasons I've only been getting to see the footage with the sexy models etc!

I would especially like to see the elephant, the fire, the lava and the lanterns! Those all sound awesome and have passed me by somehow!
The still that Mr Groven found was even a surprise to me so maybe there are some hidden gems out there!

Freya

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Vadim Bobkovsky said:
Here's an example of just that by the great Peter Lyons Collister, ASC. Now that's how you do cute Dragon test.

I have seen that one before but you are right Vadim, that is EXCEPTIONAL and a good example for how things can be done. I mean there's a shot in there that's just of some ordinary dogs, so it's not like it's a really expensive production but it looks fabulous!

Of course it does kinda help that it's been shot by a top Hollywood cinematographer

but hey there's also some great choices!

Freya

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Phil Holland said:
It would wouldn't it?

Shot on Red Dragon

Thanks Phil, I just discovered the diamond brothers anamorphic test video thanks to your list, which I really like, especially the beginning which seemed like it was going to be really interesting at first. Kinda makes me wish they had more than 6 hours. The brothers were onto something I reckon!

Freya

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Thanks Brian!

I forgot about the horses too which is funny as I thought they made a great change at the time!
+1 for the horses!

There doesn't seem to be any elephant footage unless I'm looking at the wrong thread tho:

It's unlikely I will post any video. I am shooting for an as-yet secret project and not sharing any footage at all, for more than a year now. Dragon performed 100% flawlessly. It's a dream.

Freya

Brian Boyer · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Thanks Brian!

I forgot about the horses too which is funny as I thought they made a great change at the time!
+1 for the horses!

There doesn't seem to be any elephant footage unless I'm looking at the wrong thread tho:
Freya

You're welcome.

Unfortunately, there's no moving footage of the elephants as far as I know, just two stills. I should've made that more clear. Some of the links I provided have only R3D snapshots (not the elephants) but most have motion.

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Brian Boyer said:
You're welcome.

Unfortunately, there's no moving footage of the elephants as far as I know, just two stills. I should've made that more clear. Some of the links I provided have only R3D snapshots (not the elephants) but most have motion.

Ah! I'm more looking to see some more dragon footage!

I couldn't find anything at all in the Timur Civan thread and the chameleon was just stills too?
Thanks anyway.

On the upside the grapes advert is fantastic!

Very nice!

Oddly I also liked the video of Phil Holland messing around with a candle. Very noisy and nasty looking tho but Phil looks great on screen! I loved his set design too. I think he needed to speak to camera a bit tho and wave the camera around less too and it needed more light so that it would be less noisy, but I guess that would kind of defeat the point of what he was up to!

There's a bit of a magenta problem there too isn't there?

Freya

Phil Holland · Jan 29, 2014

Freya said:
Oddly I also liked the video of Phil Holland messing around with a candle. Very noisy and nasty looking tho but Phil looks great on screen! I loved his set design too. I think he needed to speak to camera a bit tho and wave the camera around less too and it needed more light so that it would be less noisy, but I guess that would kind of defeat the point of what he was up to!

There's a bit of a magenta problem there too isn't there?

Why thank you

The magenta "orb" you are seeing is from the current OLPF essentially reflecting IR light off the sensor and back into itself. It's an interesting artifact that maintains the shape of the iris/aperture of the lens.

Red has since come up with a solution for this artifact in a new OLPF design that should be available in a couple weeks. More on that can be read here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111400-Dragon-Flare

They basically need to bake a massive new batch of the newer OLPF designs and calibrate and tune the color science to Dragon and we'll be good to go.

Freya · Jan 29, 2014

Phil Holland said:
Why thank you

They basically need to bake a massive new batch of the newer OLPF designs and calibrate and tune the color science to Dragon and we'll be good to go.

Is that all!!

I bet they are jumping for joy!

Gotta be fixed tho, for sure! Those orbs wouldn't even look good on a ghost hunting show!

Freya

Lee Saxon · Jan 30, 2014

Robert Ruffo New said:
all three graded as well as possible

So you want them to invalidate the results as much as they can?

...cine world is so weird.

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