What we need to convince more DPs on Dragon

[Gunleik Groven]

HM...

That has been asked before, but what kind of tests would you guys like to see?

I am a sucker for hardcore tech tests, that push the cams beyond their limits, to see what goes on in the extremes. "In the middle", most cams can look very good.

It is also pretty simple (after hardcore tech tests) to "Normalize" cameras... That is: Make them look similar.
It is hard to show off where the Dragon is "better" without shooting stuff that pushes the envelopes.

But I see that that kind of images easily gets misinterpreted, because the images are not neccesarily "nice".

People (me included) have been screaming for a 16+ stops camera since the R1 M arrived.
Now it is here, as far as I can see, but it seems people do not really get the implications.

So:
What kind of test-imagery would you guys like to see?
And what do you think would be convincing footage?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I figure the camera will look great in most normal shooting situations, so what I like to see are stress tests. I'd like to see an extremely underexposed low-light comparison (maybe a face lit by a candle or some dilm night exterior with one hot spot in the frame) between Dragon, Alexa, Sony F55, and Canon C500; I'd like to see an overexposure test of those at different ISO ratings to see when they match in clip point. I'd like to see a rolling shutter stress test. I'd like to see how the cameras handle colors that tend to clip before the others, like hot neon signs. I'd also like to see a straight up line resolution and moire test and a DR test.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I figure the camera will look great in most normal shooting situations, so what I like to see are stress tests. I'd like to see an extremely underexposed low-light comparison (maybe a face lit by a candle or some dilm night exterior with one hot spot in the frame) between Dragon, Alexa, Sony F55, and Canon C500; I'd like to see an overexposure test of those at different ISO ratings to see when they match in clip point. I'd like to see a rolling shutter stress test. I'd like to see how the cameras handle colors that tend to clip before the others, like hot neon signs. I'd also like to see a straight up line resolution and moire test and a DR test.

These fit with my interests...
ANd if all goes well, these will be available in a little more than a week.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

It's a shame that Gunleik's Dragon will be sporting the current OLPF for GB's tests. Based on just a couple days of shooting Dragon, I found the magenta halos and artifacts were only noticeable in limited situations - that said, even a small amount of that effect could skew test results. David M's suggestion for a low light scene with a hot spot might be particularly compromised by the OLPF issue, especially if the size/incident angle of the hot spot in the frame happens to align just wrong.

IMO, if RED can get new OLPFs installed (along with necessary tweaks in camera firmware and decode algorithms) and Dragon targeted color science in full release (not beta) by NAB - then David's "tempest in a teapot" perspective is probably right on. If these kinds of issues are still the Dragon "sound bite" for most of 2014 then the uphill battle with producers/post facilities will only get worse.

I hate the "good enough" mentality as much as anyone, but 1080/2K ProRes444 in Log-C from the Alexa in the hands of a talented shooter can look pretty darn good. Beating that value proposition will require more than just the better IQ Dragon is capable of - as evidenced by a number of recent RU threads.

Cheers - #19

 

[Gunleik Groven]

The OLPF flare has kinda been there as long as RED has been RED.

From what I see, it should not skew a test-result significantly. I am more glad to know that it is "going", than knowing that it is there.
Dragon is much better in that respect than Epic out the door.
Also I have high hope for a Dragon calibrated profile whatever that will mean.
It is one of those "when it arrives" issues.
Problem is that I do not set the timeframe for the test. And the Dragon is out. I and others shoot it with the current setting, until we do not.

Personally I am much more glad to be part of the test than not. For a number of reasons.

If it is somehow possible to swap the OLPF over the next few days, I will be more than glad to do that, though.

But simply put:
THIS is the camera that currently has to be sold to DPs and productions. And I think it is not necessarily such a hard sell...

That it will eventually get BETTER is only good.