WHAT IF RED MADE HI ISO / HI SPEED / HI RES cameras ?

[Mark Phelan]

All great comments. I think my next RED purchase is going to be a Monochrome Dragon. I like Mark's purpose built idea, like the IR Epic. I have no doubt whatsoever they are working on some of these very ideas that he's suggested, since they are us. The place was started by a Mad Man who has more cameras than I'll ever own simply out of his passion for the medium. He has instilled that same drive in the company and they actually listen to our suggestions rather than give what they deem practicable for the corporation's sake. There has never been, nor is there still a company that is so tied to its customer base.

So keep coming up with the crazy ideas everyone because they're not all that crazy.

 

[David Battistella]

It would be cool if you could add computing power to the existing chassis.

like a module that plugs in and turbo charges the sensor (adds hardcore computing power to the brain) for high speed.
think pci-e expansion card but for the camera. So stick with the basic design, but a "performance module" with two switches,

position one - high frame rate
position two - low light

without the chassis it's just a normal dragon. You could even add this to a Scarlett or a monochrome for the same effect.

come on mark. You can get on photoshop and mock that up in about a half a minute.
its got to be cool, like the switch you might see on a vintage amp or a NASA command center.

battistella

 

[Jon Carr]

I always wished RED took the battle tested REDone's and put 2, or 3 epics brains inside of them, making them high speed purpose built cameras. But I assume, they are cooking up something better. It's a small market, but RED can make a huge impact on high speed cameras, they got the codec, just need to make a camera that can handle it.

 

[Elsie N]

I always wished RED took the battle tested REDone's and put 2, or 3 epics brains inside of them, making them high speed purpose built cameras. But I assume, they are cooking up something better. It's a small market, but RED can make a huge impact on high speed cameras, they got the codec, just need to make a camera that can handle it.

I just know they've got something planned for the .RED codec... maybe something in camera?

 

[Joseph Seuferling]

I am in agreement with Toia. I think other manufacturers are starting to catch up to RED. I wonder if, truth be told, the "obsolescence is obsolete" ideal, though fantastic in theory, has put a great strain on RED, so much so that it has limited the innovation capabilities of the company. I'm sure the Dragon upgrades are a financial strain in some ways, using funds that could be put into R &D for maintainance of it's user base loyalty.

 

[Elsie N]

I am in agreement with Toia. I think other manufacturers are starting to catch up to RED. I wonder if, truth be told, the "obsolescence is obsolete" ideal, though fantastic in theory, has put a great strain on RED, so much so that it has limited the innovation capabilities of the company. I'm sure the Dragon upgrades are a financial strain in some ways, using funds that could be put into R &D for maintainance of it's user base loyalty.

I think RED has so many things going on behind the scenes... some of which we will not know about or see for years to come, that they will always be the leader in all things to do with capture and perhaps even with exhibition.

Of course I can't prove that statement for now... but mark my words (which are more or less just a repeat of what Jim and Jarred have said in the past. '-)

 

[Zeb B]

IMHO, I totally expect the next generation of RED cameras to be smaller. This is the biggest advantage over the Alexa. The mini-mags are a hint of where things are going.

I got a dandy little GH4 that records 4K in camera, shoots 96fps and runs all day on a itty bitty battery so it can be done. Would love to see RED bring their R3D to a more trim Octo/Gimbal weight form factor. Not going to happen since, at their core, RED is a Feature Movie camera that is designed to be on high profile, high budget projects - not on my little Octo ;-)

 

[David Battistella]

snip, at their core, RED is a Feature Movie camera that is designed to be on high profile, high budget projects - not on my little Octo ;-)

I think that is part of what they are, but they are involved in high end photography as well and this user base here is a wide range of productions. I'm happy to have my epic in a backpack and bringing "big production" in the size of a shoebox. It's nice for them that they do the big features, but I like to still think of them as a small rebel startup, trying to change the world.

battistella

 

[Charles Bergquist]

Yeah it'd be really great if they kept the same form factor ( Brain ) as the Epic / Scarlet and would allow us to use the peripherals such as modules with it. Being able to pull my Mini-Mag module off and my Canon mount off and put it on the HS Brain and put it in the housing would be perfect. One of the main reasons I did the Dragon upgrade is that I could use everything that I've put money into around the Epic brain.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Isn't there an entire multi-page thread about this already?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

J goes through monitors like I go through underwear.

Look forward to hearing other peoples thoughts.

Well hopefully J goes through monitors frequently. With the long shoots and all.

After the unnecessary and easily misinterpreted comment, it might be beneficial to check this 2 month old thread.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?115408-FF-camera-suggestion&highlight=

Lets say RED made a Hi ISO camera. Call it say the "EPIC Dragon (S)" ... S for sensitively. 2k & 4k only, 12MP , Raw, 10 bit ? Completely redesigned sensor designed purposely for Hi Iso's , noise reduction applied. Capable of 100,000 + Iso. Speeds of up to 100fps, Yes completely designed to combat Sony and others coming hard and fast behind RED.

Proposed 6K FF route in the linked thread would cover both high quality stills and increased sensitivity, with thicker sensor "juice" filling the 16 bits, providing 4K in S35, and theoretically supporting 150 FPS in S35 sensor crop with currently available processing hardware.

"S for sensitivity" branding route is already taken by Sony in A7S.

Lets say RED also made a Hi speed camera. Call it say "EPIC Dragon (HS)"... HS for high speed. 4k only, 12 - 17mp, Raw, 16bit, Completely redesigned sensor, Capable of 1000 FPS at 4k. Yes completely designed to combat Phantom and others coming hard and fast behind RED.

The question is whether there is a market for this with Weisscam and Phantom existing, market which is sufficiently large for Red to burn large piles of money, and large amounts of time while diverting focus from existing products to develop a camera for rare shots which demand special shooting conditions and workflow.

I'd say that 16 bits for UHD HS are a "bit" of a stretch.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

To add 1 to the list...

I'd love to see a "GoPro"-like RED camera. I want a more cinematic look, RAW and 4k.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

I mean if you are going to build a camera for dedicated Monochrome capture then I can't see why it would dnot be a bad idea to develop sensors to compete in low light and High speed market

The monochrome camera is/was a bold photographic/cinematic statement as much as it was niche tool... And I suspect was worth doing just to celebrate BW cinema!

(also many R+D costs where obviously shared)

Red may make these new tools but I really suspect the cost may be a little higher than many suspect (especially if they remain committed to raw and 4k+)...

Also from my POV I hope Red doesn't prioritise the super low light camera. I have little interest in that (don't film a lot of hedgehogs f****** ;-)

I do have a soft spot for HS but would only buy if it was the same/similar look and feel as the dragon! Otherwise it is easy, in my market, to just hire a phantom. Obviously if they announced an upgrade to our dragons I am in!!

Now if I could get a paid (or free ;-) little bump in dragon frame rate?! Bring it on!... I don't mind paying my share of the r+d.

Regards

Michael

 

[Alain M]

Toia that is so doable...let's hope RED has something related cooking under the hood or at least in mine. That is the future...

Cheers

 

[Charlie Kelly]

"for the first time in 6 years, I'm starting to look over the fence into different paddocks. I'm looking at cameras that can give me high speed without sensor crops, I'm looking at cameras that can give me super Hi ISO's..."

which camera(s) are catching your eye Mark?

 

[Mark Toia]

I got a dandy little GH4 that records 4K in camera, shoots 96fps and runs all day on a itty bitty battery so it can be done. Would love to see RED bring their R3D to a more trim Octo/Gimbal weight form factor. Not going to happen since, at their core, RED is a Feature Movie camera that is designed to be on high profile, high budget projects - not on my little Octo ;-)

And there may be the problem. The little guy(s) buy cameras, the movie boys just rent.

 

[Matt Ryan]

There's alrady a thread with poll on the high speed option. Jarred seemed like RED were considering it...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?115178-1000FPS-4K-Red-Dragon&highlight=high+speed

Would need a new sensor/boards:

nope.. Would need a new sensor and new boards.. i.e a whole different camera.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I would be all up for it, and Jarred already expressed interest in our interest fro a HS Camera 4k...

But the only way I would be interested and put my money immediately to it, would be if this cameras are 4+ as to be able to get a PRISTINE 4k 4096x2160DCP out of them for Cinema, which will secure the UHD4k format as well and anything below.

Either way I could NOT imagine RED doing a 4k camera meaning exact recording resolution of 4000x??? but most likely to be similar to what the R1 become with the MX sensor a 4.5k camera, or even a smaller number yet just in line to be able to get a clean true 4K deliverable NO upsampling in post to get to 4096x2160...

 

[Michael J Brennan]

Isn't there an entire multi-page thread about this already?

You mean the one from 2008

#71


Mike Brennan

 

[Adam Howden]

It's a good thought Toia.

I'm with you, it's competitive out there in camera land. I've been shooting a lot of Sony F55 lately for various reasons, one being that my Epic Dragon upgrade has been with red for nearly a month BUT a couple of it's boards were whacky so they're being replaced as well.

The F55 is a really versatile camera actually. With RAW and the XAVC codec shooting both HD (down rezzed to HD and 4K) it's pretty great, the colours are excellent too.

I'm expecting some pretty big things from the Dragon when I get it back other wise it'll be time to move on I think. The noise about the noise it troubling too, I don't see many other companies having such teething problems with new cameras. Although granted other companies do have teething problems too.