Aspect ratios

[Ryan Hamblin]

Do we know yet what aspect ratios will be available to us yet at the different resolutions?

Thanks in advance

 

[Poj Pitakjamnong]

Hi,
I believe this thread will be useful to you

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66210-Scarlet-X-Data-Sheet



Especially this:

 

[Yoav Yerushalmi]

That shows me what aspect ratios exist... Not what the scarlet will capture. Can we assume that the scarlet will support all the ratios that the epic does? (for example, I'm fairly certain quadHD is at 16:9. But can we capture in 3k 2.35 ? )

It looks like another picture within the thread you mentioned answers the question partially. It's unclear whether that's just for launch or if it's forever (quick answer: 1.9 is the aspect ratio for everything except 4K QHD):

 

[Yuval Shrem]

Yes, this table certainly clarifies that, however, I do have a couple of related questions:

1) Will there be a wide-screen preset (2.39 or 2.4 - windowed) to reduce data rates and possibly allow better frame rates as a result?

2) Being that the main resolution for motion will be 4K if you don't use HDRX or 3K if you do, how does that affect the choice of lenses?
If the sensor was designed for 5k Capture, and the 4k area is windowed (is it?),
then how does one calculate the effective focal lengths of the lenses for 4k use and 5k Use?
Also, in using EF lenses, do you use the full-frame lenses or the cropped ones that were designed for the digital line?
How does that affect the focal length calculation if at all?

Thanks!

 

[Ruben and Sheri O.]

So will the scarlet X come with crop marks guides as to crop in post?

 

[Sascha Rossier]

chekk the EPIC Manual (since Scarlet is the little Sister of Epic)

https://www.red.com/support/all/downloads

there are all the standard frame-guides that can be shown on the monitor(s) and
you can even make some custom frame guides if lets say you want to shoot 3:1 ... ;-)
Means: You can retire your Board Markers - no more painting on the Monitor-Screens ;-)

 

[Kamilla Lusa]

chekk the EPIC Manual (since Scarlet is the little Sister of Epic)

https://www.red.com/support/all/downloads

there are all the standard frame-guides that can be shown on the monitor(s) and
you can even make some custom frame guides if lets say you want to shoot 3:1 ... ;-)
Means: You can retire your Board Markers - no more painting on the Monitor-Screens ;-)

are frame guides available via HDMI out and HD-SDI out? or is Red LCD required for that?

 

[Sascha Rossier]

nope ... you can specify in the menu exactly what you want ... guides on LCD, HDMI or HD-SDI output or just on one of them ... lets say: HDMI stays clean without
guides and menues to record directly on a NINJA and have all the guides and menues on the RED LCD for shootin control ...
(note, you can only have hdmi OR hd-sdi output working ... not both at the same time)

its all in the manual ;-)

 

[Ruben and Sheri O.]

LOL on the painting remark =)

chekk the EPIC Manual (since Scarlet is the little Sister of Epic)

https://www.red.com/support/all/downloads

there are all the standard frame-guides that can be shown on the monitor(s) and
you can even make some custom frame guides if lets say you want to shoot 3:1 ... ;-)
Means: You can retire your Board Markers - no more painting on the Monitor-Screens ;-)

 

[Kamilla Lusa]

nope ... you can specify in the menu exactly what you want ... guides on LCD, HDMI or HD-SDI output or just on one of them ... lets say: HDMI stays clean without
guides and menues to record directly on a NINJA and have all the guides and menues on the RED LCD for shootin control ...
(note, you can only have hdmi OR hd-sdi output working ... not both at the same time)

its all in the manual ;-)

Thanks Sascha,

a little bit offtopic but I am trying to get some more information regarding monitor options and maybe you or someone else could help me.
On page 14 of Epic op manual it says 'When an HD-SDI monitor is connected WITHOUT and LCD or EVF, and in PREVIEW mode, the HD-SDI monitor will display the menus as if it were the LCD or EVF as shown below, displaying setting changes in real-time.'
However most people of various threads here on reduser say that full menus are only available through HDMI, not HD-SDI. It contradicts what I just quoted from the EPIC manual. Then they are probably talking about Red One, not EPIC. So my question is, if I will use SMALLHD DP6-SDI (SDI, not HDMI) monitor instead of RED touch LCD and without the EVF, will I be able to see full menus, guides, histogram, etc?

 

[Adam Johnson]

Does Scarlet capture 2:1 format or is it standard 16:9 HD Aspect Ratio throughout? I thought it had it but I just looked at the Scarlet Spec page and only see HD as an option. If it is not available right now maybe it will be available in a future firmware upgrade? I love shooting wide 2:1 and beyond, hopefully we will get something

AJ

 

[Phil Holland]

Does Scarlet capture 2:1 format or is it standard 16:9 HD Aspect Ratio throughout? I thought it had it but I just looked at the Scarlet Spec page and only see HD as an option. If it is not available right now maybe it will be available in a future firmware upgrade? I love shooting wide 2:1 and beyond, hopefully we will get something

AJ

Scarlet X's native capture is 1.9:1 of which you can crop out 2:1. There is a native 16:9 capture mode called "4k QuadHD". Essentially 4x 1920x1080 frames in one 4k frame, or 200% of a standard 1080p resolution.

We may or may not see other capture aspect ratios native in camera via a firmware upgrade. Is it possible? Yes. The advantage would be potentially longer recording times. The downside is no flexibility to recover outside that crop in post. It's often useful to capture a bit more in case an actor decides to get taller or lean hard on one foot. Occasionally you can "save a shot" by capturing more outside your desired frame.

For those who haven't worked with S35, there's a whole lot of head room in the 4:3 aspect ratio of 4-perf to extract a usable image if a situation like described above happens.

Also to note, for those not familiar with RedCineX Pro there is a framing/cropping tab where you can define your own aspect ratios.

I prefer to edit in an NLE at full capture aspect ration/resolution and apply the crop after the fact. So, for example, say my output aspect ratio is 2:40:1 and I have captured a the full frame aspect ratio of Scarlet X at 1.90:1. There's a little room up and down to adjust things within the NLE to help fine tune a frame.

 

[Adam Johnson]

I absolutely LOVE shooting 2:40:1 at 4.5k on the Red One MX. However, I understand that is not possible on Scarlet and do not expect it to ever be. I guess my question should be rephrased. Do you know if it is possible to set-up framing guides for 2:1, 2:40:1, etc.? I totally agree it is better safe than sorry capturing more than you need and then cropping it out later.

Thanks!
Adam

 

[sam karr]

4.5k at 2:40 (8 600 000 pixels) and 4K at 1:90 (8 850 000) have the same number of pixels approximatively. so maybe they can do something sometimes if they decide to stop selling the red mx ^^

 

[Yuval Shrem]

Enabling 4.5k at 2:40 in Scarlet X would be awesome!
Enabling 4K at 2:40 with HDRx at 24fps would be fantastic!
I really hope for those to happen in the future.
HDRx is one of the most exciting things Scarlet offers, and It would be great to have it available without having to window out so much of the sensor.

 

[Adam Johnson]

Enabling 4.5k at 2:40 in Scarlet X would be awesome!
Enabling 4K at 2:40 with HDRx at 24fps would be fantastic!
I really hope for those to happen in the future.
HDRx is one of the most exciting things Scarlet offers, and It would be great to have it available without having to window out so much of the sensor.

Jim already said if you want 4.5k 2:40 you should buy a used Red One. They have squeezed EVERYTHING they can out of the sensor and boards for Scarlet-X. Any major update from here on out will be enabling HDRx at 4K 24fps...but they are working on that still. The Red One is its own beast with its own limitations and vice versa with Scarlet-X. Both are wonderful cameras but I prefer Scarlet due to its size/ form factor and future upgrade ability form here on out. And I like the idea of owning a brand new piece of equipment and what not. Also, Scarlet has the same picture as Epic at 4K...the Red One does not

 

[sam karr]

i don't see a bright future for red one.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:FR:1123#ht_1390wt_1347
this one finished one minute ago. renting houses will rent epics and scarlet now, they will not buy red ones anymore. and people owning their cam will not buy a red one at that price when they see the selling prices on the used market, and the specs and price of the scarlet.
well, it's just speculation, but i can see the scarlet as the new red one, and then maybe red updating the firmware so it will match more the red mx. of course the scarlet electronic is not on par with epic, but it's probably on par with red mx.

 

[Adam Johnson]

i don't see a bright future for red one.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:FR:1123#ht_1390wt_1347
this one finished one minute ago. renting houses will rent epics and scarlet now, they will not buy red ones anymore. and people owning their cam will not buy a red one at that price when they see the selling prices on the used market, and the specs and price of the scarlet.
well, it's just speculation, but i can see the scarlet as the new red one, and then maybe red updating the firmware so it will match more the red mx. of course the scarlet electronic is not on par with epic, but it's probably on par with red mx.

Read my post above yours

 

[sam karr]

well, i'm obviously not an electronic specialist. i understand that hdrx (which is recording 2 images instead of one) permits to shoot at half the framerate, like 24fps in 4k and 12fps in hdrx 4k, but then if they can make 24fps in hdrx 4k (with more compression maybe), it should then be possible to have 48fps 4k at the same compression. and 4.5k 2:4 is a bit less pixels than 4k 1:90. I'm not asking for anything, just thinking with my dumb brain ^^.
And isn't "everything in life changes" red's signature?
well, future will tell us. anyway, the scarlet is just great.

 

[Nick Wernham]

Enabling 4.5k at 2:40 in Scarlet X would be awesome!
Enabling 4K at 2:40 with HDRx at 24fps would be fantastic!
I really hope for those to happen in the future.
HDRx is one of the most exciting things Scarlet offers, and It would be great to have it available without having to window out so much of the sensor.

If Red were somehow able to add this kind of functionality to the Scarlet-X it would be perfect! Personally I have no issue with Red wanting to keep 4.5k, 2.40 for the Red One MX and the Epic. That's sort of the key trick of the Red One MX. Let the owners of that camera have it. What would be nice is if we could get something like this on the Scarlet-X though...

1-48fps (and 1-24fps with HDRx) in 4k, 2.40
1-60fps (and 1-30fps with HRDx) in 3k, 2.40
1-72fps (and 1-36fps with HRDx) in 2k, 2.40

I suspect that some or all of these things would require some additional compression to work, but giving us the option of making that tradeoff would be fantastic. Personally, I'll probably shoot a very large percentage of my work in 2.40 aspect ratio anyway and this would make a camera that is already a lot better than the competition in its price range absolutely dominant. Think about it: What other camera in this price range can do over 60fps in any 2k format? The Scarlet would become a better 4k camera because of access to HDRx and some decent slow motion (primarily for more subtle use, obviously) and it would become THE 2k camera in its price range without any doubt. The "windowing" of the sensor and what necessary workarounds that entails (using wider lenses than normal or owning Super 16mm glass, basically) would be totally overcome by the fact that the camera shoots R3D RAW and has higher frame rates than any of its nearest price range competitors (Sony F3, Canon EOS C300, etc.) without any of the different set of disadvantages that those cameras have.

I'm not technical enough to know if this is a possibility, but it would make a camera that represents phenomenal value to a company like ours and make it that much better.