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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon Lenses

Tom Hanmer said:
On the Duclos website it states that the CP2s has a 35mm coverage area. In his review Duclos states the Leica Summicron- C cover 35- 36mm. If people feel that the CP2s will cover the VV sensor surely the Leica Summicrons will to. No one has mentioned that these cover the VV sensor and I was wondering if people had just overlooked them?
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CP.2's are FF lenses.... Summicron-C's are not.

The pos 18mm CP.2 is not Full frame, but you shouldn't buy it anyway.
 
As someone recently mentioned, there are not many options for full frame photography format in a proper cinema housing... just yet.

Currently the CP.2's , CN-E's, and Xenon's are the only new proper cine sets that are made to cover FF. I'm sure we'll see more and some rehoused stills sets in the future.

There are the zeiss compact zooms and rehousings like the TLS 'Morpheus' too.

But most cinema lenses will not cover at all. Some telephoto lenses cine-primes may cover with unintended portions of their image circles.
 
Off the record, I've been badgering several lens companies for many years to make cinema primes for VistaVision. This was partially due to the success of FF35 DSLRs and it being a wise business move. However, it was also because i saw a trend in digital cinema cameras occurring.

Zeiss was smart to rush out the CP.1, CP.2, and CP.2 Speeds which are really merely rehousings of the ZF/ZE glass.

Canon followed suit, but did it in a sort of weird way by making the CN-Es just EF mount. Silly Canon. Smart Duclos those. He can PL mount those for you. Those do feature a new element and coatings, but they are very much EF glass in many ways.

Schneider is really the first company to make VistaVision primes from the ground up. The Xenon project took a while to really get off the ground, but now they have a respectable set of glass.

Zeiss was smart to make the first full set of VistaVision zooms with the Compact Zooms. That's a matched T2.9 zoom set from 15-200mm. That's pretty much everything you'd really need for most types of shooting.

The dark horse there is Otus as it's sort of designed for both still and motion. Great lenses, needs more motion picture minded housings however for all of us.

There are others doing things. GL Optics, Tokina, TLS, etc.... Sigma too eventually.

Outside of cinema glass however there's several decades of really nice lenses that will be worth exploring.
 
Christopher Barrett said:
And yeah, Medium Format glass for sure, the Leica-S glass would be a dream!
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Its certainly one of my dreams.

For some reason though I think there was a problem with creating Leica-S mount for Epic. At least I think there was, besides lack of demand. Certainly wouldn't be flange distance but maybe issues with clearance, protruding focusing elements or something. Remember someone quizzing Jarred about it back in the day but never saw a definitive answer. It'd be great if they could though.
 
Phil Holland said:
Off the record, I've been badgering several lens companies for many years to make cinema primes for VistaVision. This was partially due to the success of FF35 DSLRs and it being a wise business move. However, it was also because i saw a trend in digital cinema cameras occurring.

Zeiss was smart to rush out the CP.1, CP.2, and CP.2 Speeds which are really merely rehousings of the ZF/ZE glass.

Canon followed suit, but did it in a sort of weird way by making the CN-Es just EF mount. Silly Canon. Smart Duclos those. He can PL mount those for you. Those do feature a new element and coatings, but they are very much EF glass in many ways.

Schneider is really the first company to make VistaVision primes from the ground up. The Xenon project took a while to really get off the ground, but now they have a respectable set of glass.

Zeiss was smart to make the first full set of VistaVision zooms with the Compact Zooms. That's a matched T2.9 zoom set from 15-200mm. That's pretty much everything you'd really need for most types of shooting.

The dark horse there is Otus as it's sort of designed for both still and motion. Great lenses, needs more motion picture minded housings however for all of us.

There are others doing things. GL Optics, Tokina, TLS, etc.... Sigma too eventually.

Outside of cinema glass however there's several decades of really nice lenses that will be worth exploring.
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Duclos did a major solid with CN-E PL mod.

Never was a big fan of CP.2's, but you have to admire their commitment to their line/brand. While other lens manufacturers will create a set of primes and forget about them (Sony, Canon, etc) , Zeiss keeps adding and improving. With 15, 18, 21, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100, 135, 100 macro, 35ss, 50ss, 85ss? The choices are fantastic for .

Schneider Xenons are just now getting off the ground. The 25mm is just now shipping, and that only makes a 5-set. It's taking them awhile but hopefully the next two are worth the wait!

We'll see if they do anything with the Otus for cine... My opinion is that these are actually too clean, sharp and sterile for my taste. May I ask how they are designed for still and motion? I'm not sure I know the whole story on these. On the contrary, I would love to see TLS rehouse Leica R's. I think with CN-E, CP.2, and Xenon we are seeing a market starting to build with modern optics... but for the cinema crowd, those who want proper marks and mechanics will be at a loss for something with lower contrast and vintage coatings.

Perhaps once Schneider has it's full line up, it should explore uncoated elements like Cooke has for the Mini's, or perhaps a simpler single-coat coating?
 
Heh. I personally feel right now the Schneider Xenon-FF Primes have sudo-vintage look aleady. It's like part modern and part classic. But I agree, without coatings that could get real fun.

Zeiss's more recent CP.2s have been beasts and wonderful. Nothing touches that 15mm for FF35.
 
Phil Holland said:
Heh. I personally feel right now the Schneider Xenon-FF Primes have sudo-vintage look aleady. It's like part modern and part classic. But I agree, without coatings that could get real fun.

Zeiss's more recent CP.2s have been beasts and wonderful. Nothing touches that 15mm for FF35.
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Phil, is this the Zeiss you are talking about? Is it pretty good? Hard to find info on it or reviews.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857793-REG/Zeiss_1864_642_Compact_Prime_CP_2_15mm_T2_9.html
 
Christoffer Glans said:
And every FF lens for still cameras will cover it.
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A lot of the answers in this thread are basically this assumption, and it is incorrect. Weapon 8K exceeds the expected image circle for FF35. Some FF35 lenses will have enough leeway to cover, many (especially older wides, I'd guess) will not.

WeaponFoV.jpg
 
Is Yellow not showing up correctly for you either?
 
Eric Hines said:
Phil, is this the Zeiss you are talking about? Is it pretty good? Hard to find info on it or reviews.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857793-REG/Zeiss_1864_642_Compact_Prime_CP_2_15mm_T2_9.html
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Yep. That's the one Eric. That's currently the best 14/15mm rectilinear prime for VV as far as I'm concerned. Canon's isn't bad, but not as good as this. I have an old discontinued 14mm Sigma that are also not bad, but nowhere near the Zeiss in reality.


Lee Saxon said:
A lot of the answers in this thread are basically this assumption, and it is incorrect. Weapon 8K exceeds the expected image circle for FF35. Some FF35 lenses will have enough leeway to cover, many (especially older wides, I'd guess) will not.
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"yellow"?

I'll be doing some coverage tests when that time comes. But you are more or less correct. However, much like Dragon 6K, think about the various formats as well. I have a sneaky suspicion that 8K HD and 8K WS will have really nice coverage for nearly everything. 8K FF will likely have a few issues on ultra wides, but I'll need to test that out big time.

Also, any and all Medium Format Glass will happily cover btw.
 
You'll excuse me if it seems a little silly for Red to release a sensor that is just larger than a bedrock standard in optics coverage.

The world is full of great full frame photography lenses and just a few FF cinema lens sets, why make the full sensor larger than that? So we can guarantee most wides will have heavy corner vignetting?

Seems like the full 8K option will be wasted with most wide options, unless using Medium format.

I mean, has anyone ever tested the amount of uneven field illumination in most wider-angle FF photography lenses when at open aperture? It's a slap in the face within cinema standards.

This is a great resource for those who are not familiar: HERE


If you want cinema lenses that have the excellent uneven field illumination characteristics we are used to, good luck! My Mini-S4's have a difference of 2% (at the absolute most) from image center to image corners regarding exposure fall off. Some of these common full frame photography lenses, when used wide open, have uneven field illumination measured in stops! I for one am not too excited for larger formats until we have more options to use optics that are of the same caliber and character as we have been afforded in the past, which will be more difficult for the manufacturers.

I'm sure things will change as this is a relatively new thing, outside of DSLR's where 'good enough' is king.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
You'll excuse me if it seems a little silly for Red to release a sensor that is just larger than a bedrock standard in optics coverage.

The world is full of great full frame photography lenses and just a few FF cinema lens sets, why make the full sensor larger than that? So we can guarantee most wides will have heavy corner vignetting?

Seems like the full 8K option will be wasted with most wide options, unless using Medium format.

I mean, has anyone ever tested the amount of uneven field illumination in most wider-angle FF photography lenses when at open aperture? It's a slap in the face within cinema standards.

This is a great resource for those who are not familiar: HERE


If you want cinema lenses that have the excellent uneven field illumination characteristics we are used to, good luck! My Mini-S4's have a difference of 2% (at the absolute most) from image center to image corners regarding exposure fall off. Some of these common full frame photography lenses, when used wide open, have uneven field illumination measured in stops! I for one am not too excited for larger formats until we have more options to use optics that are of the same caliber and character as we have been afforded in the past, which will be more difficult for the manufacturers.

I'm sure things will change as this is a relatively new thing, outside of DSLR's where 'good enough' is king.
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I don't disagree with those feels, but I'm clearly more excited about the potential of the format. I know of 3 lens "sets" that are being designed to cover these larger formats. I have a distinct feeling that VV and our VV+ size will be a standard to explore and manufactures have the image circle demands now proceed accordingly. Most sets take a minimum of 2 years to design, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see something new next year in the realm of new cinema glass for this format.

I agree that most S35 don't suffer from uneven field illumination, but on RED cameras you can explore formats beyond that coverage and that's where the "warts" start to show of course.

That said, there are MF 645 lenses that don't vignette that much as VV is well within their optimum center and field coverage and I bet we'll see some exploring that as well. Though slower than FF35 and S35 traditionally, some of these are actually very high resolving lenses oddly.

i'm actually excited about things like the OTUS f/1.4 primes here as I do find them rather lovely. And the internal mechanics are designed for still and motion on this series. So whenever that time comes to slap on some gears and a PL mount it should be "in bounds".

I've got all sorts of glass I'll be using and testing from vintage through modern. I'm looking forward to the chaos, but acutely aware that we need more cinema primes and zooms for VV+.
 
...guess that's what being a fan of RED will do to a man.
 
A 35mm(ish) FL of the OTUS is coming. This will be one killer 3 lens set for VV.
 
I remember going back and forth with my red rep a couple years ago, hoping to put Canon FD glass on my Red. It was a no-go for warranty issues, even with solid-seeming FD mounts out there. I'm still not really sure why FD isn't available to us. For me, for totally stripped-down shooting (all manual, no follow focus, no rails, just side handle) the quality and mechanical feel of old but well-maintained FD lenses would be great! And relatively low-cost. I'm not an expert, so I'd love any info. and opinions from you pros.
 
Jance Allen said:
I remember going back and forth with my red rep a couple years ago, hoping to put Canon FD glass on my Red. It was a no-go for warranty issues, even with solid-seeming FD mounts out there. I'm still not really sure why FD isn't available to us. For me, for totally stripped-down shooting (all manual, no follow focus, no rails, just side handle) the quality and mechanical feel of old but well-maintained FD lenses would be great! And relatively low-cost. I'm not an expert, so I'd love any info. and opinions from you pros.
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Get creative.

I have the DSMC Leica-M Mount which allows me to use that glass AND FD glass:

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-11LA-FD-Leica-M-Adapter-M-Series-M-Monochrome/dp/B0073AC3VE

Free your mind Neo :)
 
Interesting! Had never even looked at that. $700 for the Leica mount is not nothing, but it's not outrageous either. Thanks!
 
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