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WEAPON & ANAMORPHICS OR 8K?

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Aidan Crowley

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Hi Forum

I want to buy the RedWeapon system but I need to use it with anamorphic lenses (indie-film shoots etc) and I was wondering should I wait for the 8K chip and get the complete image? Thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.
 
the epic dragon looks incredible with anamorphic lenses, basically the same sensor as the weapon as it stands today, i would think the vista vision upgrade will only enhance.
 
If I'm reading the ARRI Master Anamorphics technical data sheets correctly, they have an image circle of 29.26mm. A 4:3 crop of an 8K DRAGON sensor is 34.13mm, which leaves you 16.7% short. A 6:5 crop of an 8K DRAGON is 31.99mm, which leaves you 9.3% short. A 4:3 crop of a 6K DRAGON sensor has a 26.2mm image circle, leaving 11.7% of your possible image on the gate. A 6:5 crop of a 6K DRAGON has a 24.56mm image circle, leaving 19.1% of your image on the gate.

If you shoot 4:3 anamorphic to get a 2.66:1 aspect ratio, the 6K DRAGON is a good compromise. If you shoot 6:5 anamorphic to get a 2.4:1 aspect ratio, a 7.5K window of an 8K sensor will maximize your lens's field of view.
 
How big is the Arri 4/3 sensor? That shoots the whole lens, right?
 
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Brian Merlen said:
How big is the Arri 4/3 sensor? That shoots re whole lens, right?
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Arri Open Gate is 18.13mm high according to their technical specs.

That would translate to a vertical resolution of 3626 pixels in the DRAGON world. That number is obviously between 3144 (6K DRAGON) and 4096 (8K DRAGON).

But proper 4:3 in the ARRI world is 17.82mm (ibid), which translates to 3564 pixels high in the DRAGON world. Again, more than 6K DRAGON but well less than 8K DRAGON.
 
So if you want vertical full what's the answer 65 Arri?
 
Michael Tiemann said:
If I'm reading the ARRI Master Anamorphics technical data sheets correctly, they have an image circle of 29.26mm. A 4:3 crop of an 8K DRAGON sensor is 34.13mm, which leaves you 16.7% short. A 6:5 crop of an 8K DRAGON is 31.99mm, which leaves you 9.3% short. A 4:3 crop of a 6K DRAGON sensor has a 26.2mm image circle, leaving 11.7% of your possible image on the gate. A 6:5 crop of a 6K DRAGON has a 24.56mm image circle, leaving 19.1% of your image on the gate.

If you shoot 4:3 anamorphic to get a 2.66:1 aspect ratio, the 6K DRAGON is a good compromise. If you shoot 6:5 anamorphic to get a 2.4:1 aspect ratio, a 7.5K window of an 8K sensor will maximize your lens's field of view.
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yep, I'm planning on shooting at 7.5k, depending on lens I think some of the MPA's will get full 8k height. Either way this will be huge for the 35mm MPA since there isn't a wider lens, so this basically gives you a new $50k lense which isn't even available. That extra height will also be nice for the 50mm MPA, I really like the 50 but often need to drop to the 35 if I am clipping on the vertical frame. I btw often shoot with 2X and 1.4X PL extenders which should get close to full sensor coverage for MPA's.
 
Michael Tiemann said:
The answer is here. The biggest vertical the Master Anamorphic lenses can support is a 7.5K crop on a 6:5 8K DRAGON sensor. 65 ARRI is total overkill for those lenses.
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Cool yea I meant available now, but glad to know weapon 8k does provide this niche in that I'm worried about buying it and not having people embracing 8k spherical shooting since it's all entry level sets of glass
 
Thank You guys this has really helped me figure this out :lol:. gotta make the right decision -- my only further question in your opinion(s) - Cooke or Zeiss lenses for the same purpose? I believe Zeiss have a new set especially for 8k although not anamorphic?
 
If you are talking anamorphic glass, Zeiss and Cooke both offer anamorphic sets. Zeiss Master Anamorphics T1.9 and Cooke Anamorphic/i Primes T2.3. Though they are wildly different in how they look and general lens character.

Cooke's are about $29,900 per lens. Zeiss are about $43,600.00 per lens.

Both have their own uniqueness. Cooke certainly has a more vintage vibe going on. Zeiss are more or less optically the most impressive anamorphic lenses released to date.
 
I'd imagine on an indie budget you would shoot lomos or kowas though for cheaper rates? Zeiss has cp2 and compact zooms that are spherical and supposedly will cover, we're all anxiously awaiting red or Phil or duclos to verify. Other spherical that should cover are xenon xeens and canon cine lenses. The corners on 8k ff vs 8k hd might be the determining factor on using either non optimal glass corners or even maybe slight vignetting but no one knows for sure until it's tested and cheap sets like all these sphericals have probably wider range of not matching stuff set to set vs high ended with huge rejection rates on the yields
 
Brian Merlen said:
I'd imagine on an indie budget you would shoot lomos or kowas though for cheaper rates? Zeiss has cp2 and compact zooms that are spherical and supposedly will cover, we're all anxiously awaiting red or Phil or duclos to verify. Other spherical that should cover are xenon xeens and canon cine lenses. The corners on 8k ff vs 8k hd might be the determining factor on using either non optimal glass corners or even maybe slight vignetting but no one knows for sure until it's tested and cheap sets like all these sphericals have probably wider range of not matching stuff set to set vs high ended with huge rejection rates on the yields
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My reply was anamorphic focused, due to the thread title.

One thing to really remember regarding Weapon 8K Dragon is specifically 8K HD. VistaVision, 135mm Still Film, FF35 are all designed closely to the 43.3mm image circle spec. 8K HD is 44mm.

At a minimum I'm guessing (educated guess) that all current VistaVision/135mm Still Film/FF35 lenses will cover 8K HD.

As for 8K FF, 8K 2:1, and 8K WS that will be where the real testing is needed.
 
Yea just threw that in based on his follow up query
 
I just sold my Hawk c's for this reason. Even though the hawk's almost all cover 8k 6:5. (The 35mm does get really soft on the edges and vinjet) I just felt that the trumps that we bought a few months back looks so smacking good with oval iris when I tested them on 5d FF so when I get the weapon with the bigger sensor I will be more keen to use the trumps than the hawks. Which sounds a bit insane as the trumps are kind of hobbyist lenses, while the hawks definitely are not priced as such, far from it. So all in all I think 8k weapon will, strange as it sounds, save me 100k €, as that was the difference in lens cost :)
 
Björn Benckert said:
I just sold my Hawk c's for this reason. Even though the hawk's almost all cover 8k 6:5. (The 35mm does get really soft on the edges and vinjet) I just felt that the trumps that we bought a few months back looks so smacking good with oval iris when I tested them on 5d FF so when I get the weapon with the bigger sensor I will be more keen to use the trumps than the hawks. Which sounds a bit insane as the trumps are kind of hobbyist lenses, while the hawks definitely are not priced as such, far from it. So all in all I think 8k weapon will, strange as it sounds, save me 100k €, as that was the difference in lens cost :)
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Holy Schidt!
 
Thanks for the heads up I might grab those over lomos and other cheap stuff, esp the cheap FF stuff I mentioned
 
Brian Merlen said:
Thanks for the heads up I might grab those over lomos and other cheap stuff, esp the cheap FF stuff I mentioned
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Do note that the Dog Shidt Optiks Lenses also use "cheap stuff", old stuff at that. Specifically Helios 44-2 lenses. Though, it's a great idea and I'm happy with what I've seen from Richard's work.
 
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