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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon 8k Queue

Tom Gleeson said:
Great to see something happening on this list. It was so long ago I can't remember when I put the money down on the full frame chip? While it seems the wait will continue at least the Heluim has started to roll out. Still disappointed that my Weapon which will likely be replaced in 2020 will only see the big chip sometime in 2018.
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Tom, if you would like me to add you to the list, just let me know. If you look on your Red.com account, you can find the $10,000 payment just for the sensor upgrade. It includes an SO number, which is the most important part.
 
Stacey,

Thanks for the offer but I am on the list presently sitting at number 4. At the moment I am buried deep in a big project but this ends Friday and I will chase stuff. I assume Red will contact me when something is ready.
 
Joel Voelker said:
Not in line for VV, just a normal Forged dragon to helium upgrade. Just wanted to offer the encouragement of the delightfully short upgrade time! Wish I were in that VV line though...
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So the upgrades to Helium has started for Forged Weapons..? Good to know!!

My bomb rep just told me yesterday that the upgrade program to Helium (no VV preorder) hasn't started yet... must have meant for Woven Weapons. Ordered my upgrade on Oct. 11 and am waiting with bated breath...
 
Michael Dalton said:
Any one get their camera back? Arrived on my shoot in Hawaii but
Sadly no camera. can't wait.
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Im in Europe and mine left from here about 10 days ago Guess it will take atleast 10 days back and forth and then some additional days to actually do the swap. Then also it must be an impossible task for red to ask just the right amount of people to send in their camera. As a lot of people ask to do it but then when their turn comes up its likely it´s right in the middle of a shoot or such so it must be rather difficult to keep the cameras comming in a steady stream without having big piles on wait to get done. Will let you know when it comes back though.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Im in Europe and mine left from here about 10 days ago Guess it will take atleast 10 days back and forth and then some additional days to actually do the swap. Then also it must be an impossible task for red to ask just the right amount of people to send in their camera. As a lot of people ask to do it but then when their turn comes up its likely it´s right in the middle of a shoot or such so it must be rather difficult to keep the cameras comming in a steady stream without having big piles on wait to get done. Will let you know when it comes back though.
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Would definitely agree, and their turn around times are amazing! Always tough to fit in sending your camera. Can't wait.
 
I don't understand how the VV sized dragon is theoretically the exact same mature technology as in the Dragon 6K, yet it is still MUCH SLOWER to produce then the brand new Helium chip. Whey is the VV is SLOW? Unless all of the product is being shipped to Panavision for their new camera system?

Best,

Wynn

Wynn Padula
Director of Photography
www.wynnpadula.com
 
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Michael Dalton said:
Thanks Blair! I take it you sent in right away or dropped it? Glad to hear cams are being returned.
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I actually drove it straight to Irvine from San Diego so they had it in hand just a couple hours after I was notified. They typically do "blasts" where they inform a group of folks simultaneously and I wanted to get in front of anyone in that group who was shipping their camera (even next day service is still the next day), to shorten my turnaround time. I suppose it's not completely fair that I happen to live reasonably close to Irvine, but I did spend 4 hours in Southern California traffic - so it feels like I earned it ;-)

Also worth mentioning, is that my camera did not require any repair work - so that helped too.

Props to the RedTeam for the quick turnaround.

Cheers - #19
 
Wynn Padula said:
I don't understand how the VV dragon is theoretically much older and mature technology, but it is still much slower to produce then the band new Helium. Is there a technical difference between the dragon 6K and dragon VV?
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I wonder if making 10k or 12k (or whatever the size ends up being) VV helium chips would be easier to manufacture?
 
Wynn Padula said:
I don't understand how the VV dragon is theoretically much older and mature technology, but it is still much slower to produce then the band new Helium. Is there a technical difference between the dragon 6K and dragon VV?

Best,

Wynn

Wynn Padula
Director of Photography
www.wynnpadula.com
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I have no idea of red´s sales or delivery numbers but from looking at this forum it seams like more people are happy about getting their helium upgrades than asking questions about their new ravens scarlets and dragons.
So one wild speculation would be that the "dragon oven" is broken. Simply no new dragon chips are trickling out any more. Then the only dragon cameras sold would be with recycled sensors from cameras that upgrades to helium. So for every helium upgrade there would be another dragon order that could be fulfilled.
I have no idea if the above theory is even remotely close to the truth but it for sure seams like helium sensors are far more easy to harvest than dragon sensors and especially VV dragon sensors.
If there was such situation of dragon drought that would kind of explain the rather short time between announcement of helium and the delivery there of.

Simply, Jarred and the gang are in desperate need for our precious little dragon chips. Lol.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I have no idea of red´s sales or delivery numbers but from looking at this forum it seams like more people are happy about getting their helium upgrades than asking questions about their new ravens scarlets and dragons.
So one wild speculation would be that the "dragon oven" is broken. Simply no new dragon chips are trickling out any more. Then the only dragon cameras sold would be with recycled sensors from cameras that upgrades to helium. So for every helium upgrade there would be another dragon order that could be fulfilled.
I have no idea if the above theory is even remotely close to the truth but it for sure seams like helium sensors are far more easy to harvest than dragon sensors and especially VV dragon sensors.
If there was such situation of dragon drought that would kind of explain the rather short time between announcement of helium and the delivery there of.

Simply, Jarred and the gang are in desperate need for our precious little dragon chips. Lol.
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Not sure if that's true or not.

Scarlet-W's are going out in large volumes, so who knows if they are recycled chips or not.

My guess is Dragon sensor volumes are down in general (harder to make, or perhaps supply problems) whereas Helium sensors are abundant.
 
I've used 65mm Arri sensors and RED VistaVision sensors and they look so much better than normal S35mm sensors! It is like comparing 16mm to 35mm film.

Long ago RED promised gigantic 6x12 sized sensors. Imagine the astonishing image quality that would create! These large sensors will truly bring with them the hey-day of the theater going experience!

Who wants to stay home and watch their crappy 1080P or 4k LCD TV, when they can sit in a theater and watch their favorite movie with a 16K+ projector?

RED, let's bring the future here now!
 
Wynn Padula said:
I don't understand how the VV sized dragon is theoretically the exact same mature technology as in the Dragon 6K, yet it is still MUCH SLOWER to produce then the brand new Helium chip. Whey is the VV is SLOW? Unless all of the product is being shipped to Panavision for their new camera system?
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There are always defects on silicon wafers, large sensors mean there is a much bigger chance that a sensor will have a defect. When you are cutting smaller sensors from a wafer, not only do you get more sensors (product) per wafer, but it also means you get a better yield comparatively since there's less chance a single sensor will be cut from a part of the wafer with a defect. Bigger sensors means less sensors per wafer, and a bigger chance that each sensor will be on a part of the wafer with a defect. So per unit they are more expensive, and slower to produce since less sensors come from each wafer and high chance of defects on the ones that do.
 
Steven Abrams said:
There are always defects on silicon wafers, large sensors mean there is a much bigger chance that a sensor will have a defect. When you are cutting smaller sensors from a wafer, not only do you get more sensors (product) per wafer, but it also means you get a better yield comparatively since there's less chance a single sensor will be cut from a part of the wafer with a defect. Bigger sensors means less sensors per wafer, and a bigger chance that each sensor will be on a part of the wafer with a defect. So per unit they are more expensive, and slower to produce since less sensors come from each wafer and high chance of defects on the ones that do.
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But thats no difference between vv and helium in that regard. Since helium also has 8k amount of possibilities of going bad just as vv. And theoretically helium with the smaller photosites would be harder to make.
 
So guys, those of you who got your Helium sensors back, what are your thoughts on them? Running into any highlight issues? Noise levels much improved? Thanks, your thoughts would be very insightful.
 
Got mine delivered today. Took 2 weeks in total for the round trip. Very happy to have it.

Brad Grimm said:
So guys, those of you who got your Helium sensors back, what are your thoughts on them? Running into any highlight issues? Noise levels much improved? Thanks, your thoughts would be very insightful.
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Noise levels is much improved. You don't have to pixel peep to see it. I just turned on the camera in my office and it all looks smashing clean on the 7" lcd in a way different way than weapon did. So don't know per pixel but when looking at the actual frame displayed on the same display as you used to look at 6k... helium is much cleaner. Then sure I also see some odd colors when among it towards heavily mixed lights then the highlights looks like they done in some there threads on this forum. But that is mostly post processing or the current limitation of running only redgamma and not redwidegamutRGB in camera. So I know it will look fine in post even though it looks a bit odd on screen. From testing back and forth it´s a pretty easy choice to make. Sure dragon got a few benefits of bigger sensor and a color processing that is already well balanced but it´s easy to see that helium simply got more to offer.
 
Just to be clear? Everyone is chatting about helium 8k not vistavision dragon 8k (I am easily muddled by Reduser;-)

Apart from the big guys with really strong dev relationships with RED (PV, Vantage and RVZ) nobody has a 8k vista? .. apart from Phil of course who deserves a little bonus for the tireless work he does for the rest of us... even I can't begrudge Mr Holland;-)

Thanks M
 
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