VFS Inclino, Imperio, Origo News ??

[Rich Schaefer]

Isn't "Good quality plastic" an oxymoron?

Sort of...maybe...I am hoping for the best.

I am more interested in last weekends update than plastic!

 

[John V]

BTW guys....Impero and the gears are not plastic. They are made from Nylon 66. The inherent advantages of nylon 66 include good abrasion resistance, high melting point, and excellent chemical resistance to most oils and greases.

 

[Carlo Rho]

Nylon 66... interesting... but when????
Could you please update us?

Carlo

 

[Ernesto Lomeli]

Guys the unit is very solid, i wouldnt worry about it being plastic, its been on a few shows now and has held up well. It works great, your in for a treat... especially for the money.

Im sure curt is doing some revisions and wants to make sure you guys are beyond happy once you get it. its close....

Mine has been on a few jobs in the last week, on sunday i even told the steadicam op to take his bartec off cause i wanted to use my imperio and inclino setup, because all my lenses are already marked on the different rings.... like all good assistants should do on a prep.

You cant do that on the bartec because it doesn't auto calibrate, and i didn't want my assistant waisting time having to remark on every lens change..... especially on a music video.


Patience guys, in know you all are getting much more refined motors then the one i have now...... its worth it.

 

[Jim Bartell]

Mine has been on a few jobs in the last week, on sunday i even told the steadicam op to take his bartec off cause i wanted to use my imperio and inclino setup, because all my lenses are already marked on the different rings.... like all good assistants should do on a prep.

You cant do that on the bartec because it doesn't auto calibrate, and i didn't want my assistant waisting time having to remark on every lens change..... especially on a music video.

Yes, you can. Auto-calibrate vs. manual really doesn't enter into it. As long as you begin the calibration procedure at the same starting point as when you marked the strip or ring, the marks will be the same. You just make a mark on the ring indicating the start point. It's done every day. I've sold hundred of extra marking strips and rings to customer for exactly this purpose.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

I don't care if it's plastic, just send the damn thing!!!

Or say something.

 

[D Namir]

BTW guys....Impero and the gears are not plastic. They are made from Nylon 66. The inherent advantages of nylon 66 include good abrasion resistance, high melting point, and excellent chemical resistance to most oils and greases.

Well Nylon 66 is plastic. Could be a good plastic, but plastic.
Now, it could be that it is not a bad thing. If you drop a metal gear you may bend the sprockets, if you drop the plastic (nylon 66), it will bounce.
However, I still don't know how these parts will last in the working tasks of the future works and I never came upon plastic with Panavision, Arriflex, Preston, C-Motion and even Bartech feels more solid.
I say again that this a new device that still need to be tested and put to work.
I will be very happy to find out that this deice deliver what it was made for.:thumb_postwhore:

 

[Pawel Achtel]

BTW guys....Impero and the gears are not plastic. They are made from Nylon 66. The inherent advantages of nylon 66 include good abrasion resistance, high melting point, and excellent chemical resistance to most oils and greases.

If it is Nylon 66 than it is plastic and it's tensile strength would be, what? 5 - 6 times less than aluminium alloy? But, most importantly, unlike metal, plastic does not hold tollerances, especially nylon. It absobs moisture, changes volume. Wear resistance is also not comparable to metal. Just saying.

The gear is less of an issue. They can be easily replaced. But the housing body could be a problem in field use.

Having said that, I have not seen the finished thing. That's another subject that has been already well covered...

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

:sifone:Hello guys. Before you jump in and say things about plastics and mechanical engineering of components and materials could you at least pay some respect to all the R&D that Curt put into that project and some respect for his knowledge please.after all he is an engineer and he knows a thing or two about this.its a great product, very sturdy and solid and I dont thing you can drop it and break it.As for the gears its good that they are nylon 66 , you know its not only droping and breaking or bending, there is another factor that protects your lenses gear rings which are in most cases very very expensive.
imagine if something goes wrong and the motor goes crazyand it rips of your lense gear just because its aluminum 7075 which is hard as steel? would you rather like that? plastic gears are very tough, very cheap to replace and dont harm your lenses.
Constantine:thumbsup:

 

[Mitch Gross]

Jim Bartell is completely correct, you can pre-mark all your lenses with a Bartech and in fact this is standard operating procedure. I've done it dozens if not hundreds of times.

BTW, I would have hoped for Delrin over Nylon 66, but it is still an acceptable material.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

Curt, what's the latest over there Buddy?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Before you jump in and say things about plastics and mechanical engineering of components and materials could you at least pay some respect to all the R&D that Curt put into that project and some respect for his knowledge please.after all he is an engineer and he knows a thing or two about this.its a great product, very sturdy and solid and I dont thing you can drop it and break

Nothing disrespectful towards Curt. Having masters degree in structural engineering, I simply made an observation about plastic versus metal and my preference. I also mentioned that it is fine for gears, but I was skeptical about the case and other components being plastic.

BTW, how do you know it is a great product? Do you guess, hope, dream or do you have one in your hand? Just asking.

 

[Michael Tsimperopoulos]

You cant do that on the bartec because it doesn't auto calibrate, and i didn't want my assistant waisting time having to remark on every lens change..... especially on a music video.

Ernesto, I am afraid that you are completely wrong regarding the Bartech. I never have to "mark" a focus strip twice.

Actually, I carry a few hundred focus strips in my accessories case, neatly organized per lens set, and I am ready to hand over a ready-to-roll focus handset to the 1st AC the moment I arrive on the set. Assistants absolutely love it, and most of them are quite stunned by the speed of the process, the precision and the repeatability, mumbling "Oh...I think I did read somewhere in a forum that a Bartech can't do that..."

By the way, I never met a lens that the Bartech/M-One (or SLD-100) couldn't turn as fast or even faster than another camera's Preston (not even a Panavision 50mm Primo on a freezing morning), and I'll beat a Preston speed-wise on a single-motor calibration every time.

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

I wasnt replying to you Mr Pawel Achtel , gvd wrote something about woring about plastic in gears .As about people saying this and that before they speak they should wait until they get one in their hands.Or maybe listen to some that do have one.
So here you are. the motor is not plastic the gears are.the controller and reciever are plastic.Look very solid to me. if you drop the reciever its so light that there is not much you can do to harm it unless you play tennis with it or step on it and jump . The controller I wouldnt drop it to test but it doesnt look like it will break.
Do you do crash tests on your other ff like preston or Bartech? I personally dont I prefer taking care of them.
and Iam not dreaming or imagining things I have tested the real thing.
B.R.
Constantine

 

[Ivan G]

For the love of red, can we get an update...

 

[Adrian T.]

It's a week now since Curt said that he needs another "day".
How long are his days anyway?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

How long are his days anyway?

hehehe, just one long day since 13 August 2008. And, I reckon, it is still early morning :rofl:

To kill the time, how does VF lens control compare to Bartek? Apart from the obvious: the availability, has anyone compared the features, performance and price? Sounds like a realistic way to go, no?

 

[Nils Ruinet]

hehehe, just one long day since 13 August 2008. And, I reckon, it is still early morning :rofl:

To kill the time, how does VF lens control compare to Bartek? Apart from the obvious: the availability, has anyone compared the features, performance and price? Sounds like a realistic way to go, no?

Price :

Bartech :
Bartech : $2100 for the remote + receiver (1 channel)
M-One motor : $2500 with gears and cable
So that would be around $4600 for a 1 channel Bartech with motor.

Viewfactor :
Impero : $995
Inclino Motor : $1394 with cable
So that's $2389 for a full 1 channel Viewfactor system. About 1/2 the price of a Bartech.


Calibration :
- Bartech has a manual calibration, takes some time to get used to it but once you are it takes less than 30 seconds and is really easy to do. It has never been an issue for me.
- Impero has auto calibration, you just push a button and it does all the work.

Also, the Impero is able to control 3 motors (but only one at a time, which doesn't seem very practical), the Bartech only controls 1. I'm looking forward to the impero 'Pro' or whatever it's called which should have 3 real channels for focus, iris and zoom.

I haven't been able to see an Impero / Inclino yet, so I don't know how they will compare regarding noise levels, range, build quality and potential issues...

All I can say is, Bartech is a great product, very easy to use and to set up, no bells and whistles but it does what is needed, never had any bugs or issues with it, and most importantly, Jim Bartell is know to provide great and fast service.
A few months ago I needed a cable for my bartech, sent an email on a sunday, got a response a couple of hours later and the cable was sent first thing in the morning on monday. Not sure how long it would have taken with viewfactor...

However, Impero and Inclino seem to be great products with a lot of cool features. Now we just need to see how well they perform in real life, if the noise levels are fine and if there aren't any bugs left.
If that's the case, I'll probably buy one for my red too.

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

Additionally to above.
the bartech is a very reliable and prooven tool. About the noise I cant really comment cause I never had one side by side. maybe the VF is a bit noiser but to be quite honest no sound man complained so far. i also think that the 3 - one at the time motor outs fuction isnt very usefull but hey its there andthere are some tricks you can do to use at least 2 motors back and fore still not the best thing.one other feature i like is that you can control 2 motors pulling focus in 2 lenses and that would be very usefull for 3D rigs since the VF looks to be very very accurate. b ut i havent tested that so far. Can you do that with the Bartech? Mr Bartell can answer that for us as he is a brilliand electronics guy.About the weight, it was said once again, the motor has all the driver electronics inside so its like having motor drive and motor in one unit thats why its heavier than other motors, but I believe that if compaired with the over all set might even be a bit lighter.Only thing is that if used in steadicam rig the weight is distributed higher as with other units that the motor driver box is a bit lower under the rods on the upper sled but it hasnt give me any trouble. the motor mount is rotational and can be mounted in many configurations,angles, but in all cases feels rock solid.
And a funny story to finish..
you know some years back that I was waiting for something cheap and reliable to arrive in the world of ff, as Iam an r/c fun I had made an r/c servo mount for the lense and use to pull focus with a digi graupner 10 ch unit. The servo wsa noisy, but... it had so much torgue that it was turming lenses with a 60mm O.D gear, so much faster than most pro units Ive seen so far. it needed about 10 minutes to mark a lense and it was reasonable accurate if the servo was powered properly. Very cost effective solution that even jimmy jib uses in a wired configuration for iris. And you could pull that from a mile away if eye in line.
I was wondering that maybe with a larger gear on the vf it would propably turn the lenses quiker with out any major issues as it looks to have plenty of torgue.
One more thing, it was mentioned before about the quality of cables and the originality of lemo connectors, well its Lemo ok and the cables are well made.
I Wwill be doing some video for my HR-1 HAND HELD RIG and I will be having a VF unit on board. Only a couple of weeks away now for the presentation.
www.the-running-rig.com
best regards
Constantine

 

[Jim Bartell]

Additionally to above.
the bartech is a very reliable and prooven tool. About the noise I cant really comment cause I never had one side by side. maybe the VF is a bit noiser but to be quite honest no sound man complained so far. i also think that the 3 - one at the time motor outs fuction isnt very usefull but hey its there andthere are some tricks you can do to use at least 2 motors back and fore still not the best thing.one other feature i like is that you can control 2 motors pulling focus in 2 lenses and that would be very usefull for 3D rigs since the VF looks to be very very accurate. b ut i havent tested that so far. Can you do that with the Bartech? Mr Bartell can answer that for us as he is a brilliand electronics guy.
www.the-running-rig.com
best regards
Constantine

The BFD can control two motors with one handset. However, since the motors use potentiometers for position control, variations from unit to unit can induce enough error to cause problems. So we do not say it can be used this way because we don't want anyone to be unsatisfied. However, one customer had 6 motors and he said 4 were exactly the same and 2 weren't, so it is theoretically possible. We are looking into instituting a selection process so we can pick identical motors for this application.