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V-Raptor 8K: Why is a low-shutter limited to 1/23.98?

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Morten Kühl

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Hi Everyone,


We just got the V-Raptor at our studio and stumbled into an issue regarding low-shutter.

I was searching on the forum and found a post by Curtis Boggs commenting on the fact that the V-Raptor is limited to a shutter speed/angle no slower than 1/23.93

Post here: https://www.reduser.net/forum/red-c...w-open-8k-s35-announced?p=3792143#post3792143

I'm finding this very odd as this has not been an issue on the Dragon in the past. Just like Curtis mentions in the post, I could set the variable framerate to 1fps and drag the shutter to 360° to get those super long blurs.

Is this something that is limited by the sensor, or can this be solved with a firmware update?

Thanks you,

Morten Kühl
www.kuhlandhan.com
 
I've reached out to RED regarding this and it is being worked on for a future firmware update.

Not as easy as the older sensors and boards in this case.

Based on the little research I could do on this I think this will end up being a different Sensor Calibration process, but likely what we would see is just a longer calibration process. Right now Sensor Cal is down to 30 seconds or less, which is a big improvement over 8 minutes on Monstro.
 
Phil Holland said:
I've reached out to RED regarding this and it is being worked on for a future firmware update.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply Phil. Thats good news—Have they given you an ETA on such an update?


Phil Holland said:
Based on the little research I could do on this I think this will end up being a different Sensor Calibration process, but likely what we would see is just a longer calibration process. Right now Sensor Cal is down to 30 seconds or less, which is a big improvement over 8 minutes on Monstro..
Click to expand...

So this is an issue tied to the calibration of the sensor? And you think to be able to run those slow-shutter speeds you would need to calibrate the sensor, when a potential firmware update addresses the issue?

Perhaps you could point me in the right direction in terms of resources on this subject matter?

Thank you for your time.

/Morten
 
Morten Kühl said:
Thank you for your reply Phil. Thats good news—Have they given you an ETA on such an update?

So this is an issue tied to the calibration of the sensor? And you think to be able to run those slow-shutter speeds you would need to calibrate the sensor, when a potential firmware update addresses the issue?

Perhaps you could point me in the right direction in terms of resources on this subject matter?

Thank you for your time.

/Morten
Click to expand...

Not so much tied to calibration, but more about the sensor and method I think.

I only have my experience of running CalMaps for CCD and CMOS sensors to go by and other odd experiences. If I was to guess the high speed readout for allowing shutterspeeds below 1/24th will require a more advanced calibration method that the general at speed or high speed calibration. Longer exposure times reveal many gremlins that must be tended to basically.

No ETA was given, but I know it's being looked at. I would hope next major firmware release or the following.

Generally with sensor calibration you get a broad useable range of exposure times, which is why you can get away with 180 degree shutter at 24 and higher frame rates typically without a new calibration. However if going to 1/24th through say 1 second your best bet would be to calibrate for that, similar to DSMC2 best practices. True for really any camera that allows for a calibration pass really.
 
Thank you for elaborating on this Phil.

Fingers crossed it will be doable with a firmware update.

/Morten
 
I have also been waiting for these updates and so this is good news to know that RED is working on it. From my previous post and emails to phone conversations about this with or to RED it seemed to fall on deaf ears or that unmistakable silence when asking about something that might not be part of the firmware update., I was told that there are not so many users of the camera that use the slow shutter speeds or my fav Frame Averaging or Frame Summing so it might not show up in the Raptor but we will see when we start to see the slower shutter rates. I seem to remember that the previous cameras all seemed to take a long time for the update that gave slower frame rates and things like the Frame Averaging...

So this is all good news to me as a lot of my work is down around the 1 fps and 360 degree shutter for animation or other similar work.
Thanks for the post and thanks Phil for the info as always..
 
Russ Fill said:
Thanks for the post and thanks Phil for the info as always..
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When I got the first V-Raptor last September I provided a laundry list of feature requests with presumed levels of importance to the masses. I certain was/am demanding things that are more relevant to me or previous DSMC2 users, but have more grounded requests too. I've been filming with Raptor for over a year now and am still asking for things here and there, but a lot of stuff has been added now.

I will say I think the general mass market of commercial filmmaking as well as other cameras have perhaps influenced the semi-simplified approach this time around. I see pros and cons to that. I'm a weird and demanding filmmaker however and wouldn't mind some of the previous goodies or new imaginative goodies I can think of.

IQ-wise, I've been producing stunning imagery with V-Raptor and at it's core that's my main focus.
 
I’ll be super happy when this gets addressed.
just got another project brief that included that technique
Using 4-6fps and motion blur.
im sure Red is working hard on it.
 
I really loved the flexibility with Red that you could set any frame rate. I would often use 5fps for timelapse so it feels like a huge step backwards. I basically have to use our Heliums for shots where I need slower shutterspeed. And yes, hdrx is also greatly missed.
In many ways I felt that these cool technical features was what made Red special and magical, I always had this confidence that I could tackle any issue with the camera, it was just the smartest camera on the block. So sad to see these features go. Hopefully we get some of them back though, the last firmware had lots of useful things.
 
AndreasOberg said:
I really loved the flexibility with Red that you could set any frame rate. I would often use 5fps for timelapse so it feels like a huge step backwards. I basically have to use our Heliums for shots where I need slower shutterspeed. And yes, hdrx is also greatly missed.
In many ways I felt that these cool technical features was what made Red special and magical, I always had this confidence that I could tackle any issue with the camera, it was just the smartest camera on the block. So sad to see these features go. Hopefully we get some of them back though, the last firmware had lots of useful things.
Click to expand...

on Scott Balkum's live stream about 3 weeks back, Jarred said that both lower shutter speeds and HDRx will be coming back. So hopefully they're both in the next firmware.
 
Leonardo Newman said:
on Scott Balkum's live stream about 3 weeks back, Jarred said that both lower shutter speeds and HDRx will be coming back. So hopefully they're both in the next firmware.
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That would be awesome. For example right now I live up in the mountains so have great opportunities for doing timelapses. But I like to make timelapses that are not so "jiterry" and for that you need about 5fps which not that many photo cameras can do. Of course no problem at all with the Red cameras. And even better if you have HDRx then you can handle changes in light much better in a way that no still camera can.
I also like that the images are compressed a bit unlike the still cameras where you get huge files in the end that then needs to be converted from raw etc.
 
Ian D said:
Reviving this thread because I want slow shutter option, like on all my older reds. I think it should be in the camera by now.
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between this and being able to edit the menu lists, i feel like if it hasn't been implemented by now (18 months of the Raptor/DSMC3 being out)... it is a feature they will not bring back.

i miss both features immensely.
every single day i scroll through the menus past settings i will never use... and i go a little more insane, knowing that in DSMC1 and 2 i could so easily edit them out.
 
MorganMaassen said:
between this and being able to edit the menu lists, i feel like if it hasn't been implemented by now (18 months of the Raptor/DSMC3 being out)... it is a feature they will not bring back.

i miss both features immensely.
every single day i scroll through the menus past settings i will never use... and i go a little more insane, knowing that in DSMC1 and 2 i could so easily edit them out.
Click to expand...

Editable menus are included in the beta released yesterday: https://www.red.com/download/v-raptor-firmware-beta
 
This would be great. What I loved with Red is that they had these more advanced settings so you could do clever things like timelapses.
 
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