USB-C Port Poor Performance

[TYLER STOOKSBURY]

Hey everyone, I've had some issues using the USB-C port with the RED control app. The app will recognize the camera and i can connect but without a video stream even though it's turned on in the camera. After a minute or two I lose the connection and the camera will not find my phone after re-scanning. Would anyone have an idea of what could cause this?

 

[Michael von Hirschheydt]

There are different cables in the market regarding (incomplete) pinout and noise insulation which can create issues in several combinations. The cable should be as short as possible. Try different brands.

 

[TYLER STOOKSBURY]

There are different cables in the market regarding (incomplete) pinout and noise insulation which can create issues in several combinations. The cable should be as short as possible. Try different brands.

That could very well be the case. I was running it on a gimbal so i was trying to use the USB-C cable supplied with my phone and it may be more optimized for charging vs data.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I’ve been experiencing this disconnecting issue with Komodo X and RED Control since mid March of this year.

specs:
Komodo X running 1.1.1 & 1.2.5
RED Control 2.3.8
iPhone 14 Pro Max running iOS 17.4.1

Connected via USB C to lightning cable, I would experience the RED Control app initially connecting to the KX (after Hotspot “trust” ritual) and operating normally but eventually disconnecting while in use.
After the disconnect RED Control no longer sees the camera in RED Control’s camera selection menu though the iPhone still seems to maintain some type of connection as it still receives power from the camera via the USB C port.

After experiencing the disconnect from KX, closing out of RED Control and attempting to reconnect does not work as
the app continues to not see the camera in the camera connection section.
I have to turn off and restart the KX for it to be seen by the RED Control app again.

Not sure if the iPhone shuts off data connection to the lightning port when/if something triggers an error.

Unfortunately even if I can successfully reconnect both RC and KX often continue to disconnect afterward.

Should be noted that wireless use of RED Control and KX work as expected and I have not experienced any issues with either infrastructure or Ad Hoc wireless modes. This disconnect seems to be only with the USB C hard line connection and selecting the “LINK” camera connection in RED Control.

The curve ball in all of this is there are days where I have no problem at all with RED Control and KX connecting and maintaining connection even throughout a long shoot day.

In other words, this above problem occurs intermittently for me.
I have not been able to determine a specific circumstance, function, or event that triggers this issue.

I have corresponded with Mikael Lubtchansky the author of RED Control about the issue and while he was able to
make RC more stable (ie the now app does not crash during this disconnect) we have not been able to find the source of the problem.

I have tried 3 different brands of USB C to lightning cables that are Apple MFI certified but the problem still exists.

Had shoots in the last week where the issue occurred.
It’s frustrating when this happens on set for obvious reasons.

I’m still troubleshooting the iPhone, KX, and cables to see where the issue is.

I do plan to send a Log report from the KX when I experience the phenomenona.

I have had an issue in the past where my iPhone’s lightning port was dirty resulting in chargers and Control disconnecting but that issue was resolved after getting the port cleaned at an Apple Store.

Any help on this would also be appreciated.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[RadRyno]

So recently, I upgraded to the Iphone 15 but I kept my Iphone 13 and tried out using it as a dedicated monitor for my KX, it was generally very awesome, although I didn't experience a ton of complete dropouts like you, I did notice that the stream would often still get bogged down and clunky. Eventually, I tried to fix the slowdowns by resetting the phone completely. Since I did not have it activated on a cellular network the reset prevented the Iphone from setting up a hotspot.

So I went ahead and traded in the phone for credit on a macbook.

Now that I'm using my Iphone 15, connected via USBC I'm noticing much more solid connections and faster streaming quality BUT. If I'm not using the beefiest USBC 4.0 cable I have, I will have problems. I recently got two super thin USBC Ribbon cables and it seemed like it was rock solid but eventually, after lots of use it just doesn't want to work EVEN when I switch to the backup cable that I haven't used. But when I switch to the beefy Kondor Blue or other USBC 4.0 cables it's solid as a rock.

Basically, I'm saying there are so many things working against this app working reliably that using ye ol' Lighting cable connection is running a race with a bum knee.

So I guess my answer is try upgrading to iphone 15, ugh I hated typing that. But it's Apple's fault for refusing to ditch lightning for SO LONG.

Good luck!

 

[Brian Timmons]

So recently, I upgraded to the Iphone 15 but I kept my Iphone 13 and tried out using it as a dedicated monitor for my KX, it was generally very awesome, although I didn't experience a ton of complete dropouts like you, I did notice that the stream would often still get bogged down and clunky. Eventually, I tried to fix the slowdowns by resetting the phone completely. Since I did not have it activated on a cellular network the reset prevented the Iphone from setting up a hotspot.

So I went ahead and traded in the phone for credit on a macbook.

Now that I'm using my Iphone 15, connected via USBC I'm noticing much more solid connections and faster streaming quality BUT. If I'm not using the beefiest USBC 4.0 cable I have, I will have problems. I recently got two super thin USBC Ribbon cables and it seemed like it was rock solid but eventually, after lots of use it just doesn't want to work EVEN when I switch to the backup cable that I haven't used. But when I switch to the beefy Kondor Blue or other USBC 4.0 cables it's solid as a rock.

Basically, I'm saying there are so many things working against this app working reliably that using ye ol' Lighting cable connection is running a race with a bum knee.

So I guess my answer is try upgrading to iphone 15, ugh I hated typing that. But it's Apple's fault for refusing to ditch lightning for SO LONG.

Good luck!

Thanks for the insight RadRyno.

i was already looking into getting an iPhone 15 Pro Max so perhaps this is the final sign to move forward.
Will look into the Kondor Blue cables.

Hard to describe why but I feel I work better using RED Control which is why this issue is of concern to me.
Trust me I’m surprised a camera app would have that kind of effect on me but apparently it does.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[TYLER STOOKSBURY]

Im going to do a little test this week with some different cables and see if i can find anything. I have quite a few and ill see if i can find anything!

 

[jmm123]

Ever since I bought the expensive link adapter ($700AUD) - I have only had 1 session where the App successfully connected to the Komodo via USB -c. I have a high end USB-C Cable.
Since the latest RED App update - it will not connect at all via USB-C on my iPhone 15 Pro Max nor any of my other iPhones.
It did connect this morning to the iPAD via Wifi but not to the phone via WiFi - unbelievable!

As compensation, I suggested to tech support that after wasting 6 months on this over-priced link adapter they should give me the over-priced iPAD app for free,
Tech support in itself is hopelsss due to the Timezone differences.

A totally no win situation.

John

 

[jmm123]

PS: I did send the large LOG report to tech support and instead they asked me to send a video of my connection - I felt like saying I am not an idiot.
I did send them a video and photos the first time 6 months ago.
Of course this LOG report was completely ignored this time.
I don't think they have any idea of how to develop the Red Control App - which makes me wary about paying another $800 for the iPAD version.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I recently sent a tech support message to RED with log file with my issue (KX dropping connection to iPhone 14 Pro Max via USB-C) and waiting to hear back.

Had a shoot this weekend where the setup was working fine for a couple of hours and then started having the issue.
Changed to 3 different USB-C cable and each one experienced the connection dropping.

I have jiggled the cables on both the iPhone end and the KX end and the connections seem to be solid.

Will follow up.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[jmm123]

OK looks like I have once again solved this problem: WITHOUT any support from RED - Those guys seem to know NOTHING. Why do we pay exorbitant prices for their link adapter when they haven't got a clue when there are issues.

I finally remembered how I sorted this out 6 months ago.

My settings on the RED were all correct despite RED support hounding me that I had the settings wrong.

Various lenses seem to cause a problem with the Link Adapter.

I switched to the RF 16mm lens and bingo the USB-C worked.

There after of course other lenses worked.

6 hrs later - same problem. So I put the 16mm lens back on and now USB-C works again.

Love to know why Thi shappens - I am hoping someone here may be Abel to help.

or maybe its pure luck.

I was also surprised that you can have both USB-C and Wifi running at the same time. So I had 2 Apple devices controlling the RED at the same time.

The other issue: my iPAD does not have a Mobile SIM - so that device refuses to talk to the RED via USB-C - any thoughts?

 

[jmm123]

With further testing I realised - you just need to remove the existing lens and just put it back on every few hours.
Would love to hear an explanation.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

I was also surprised that you can have both USB-C and Wifi running at the same time. So I had 2 Apple devices controlling the RED at the same time.

The other issue: my iPAD does not have a Mobile SIM - so that device refuses to talk to the RED via USB-C - any thoughts?

You can have several devices controlling the camera over wifi if needed, one device can monitor the image while another can control focus for example.

The USB-C link connection is unfortunately limited on iOS due to the way Apple implemented it.
It is only possible to use the local USB-C network connection via the hotspot features that requires a cellular network on the device to be shared...
So on a device with no SIM it is sadly just impossible to use. I have contacted them about this over the years but not much progress so far to have this solved.

FWIW, on Android you can use RED CONTROL tethered without any SIM or cell network.

 

[jmm123]

I am still astounded that the fix to the flakiness of the App has been solved by just detaching and attaching the lens. For me now even the cheapest cables work.
I am surprised that after having to pay for the link adapter RED has refused to do anything about persisting for the need to have a SIM on the Apple device.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I just sent some follow up questions to RED regarding the issue on my end so they are looking into it.

I have experienced some situations where the iPhone and KX would disconnect on the iOS Device Trust screen which is before I can even start RED
Control. This leads me to believe that RED Control may not be the issue.

John- I did try connecting and disconnecting the lens as well as my RF to EF mount to see if that help. It did not seem to make a difference but I may have to test that more. I will note though that my issues seem to be more with my Komodo X and may potentially differ from yours.
My Komodo with a Komodo link does not seem to experience the disconnect issue as much though I have to verify that more extensive testing as this is an intermittent issue.

Mikael- Always appreciate your presence on these issues. I will also send a request to Apple to allow Hotspot tethering without a Sim card or cell service.

Another interesting development- I just experienced the disconnect between my iPhone and KX but then immediately connected the iPhone to my Komodo OG with Komodo Link and the iOS Trust handshake, LINK connection and operation in RED Control were fine.

I then reconnected the same iPhone back to my KX but there was no hot spot connection or TRUST handshake screen in iOS which is a common occurrence when I try to reconnect after the 2 devices drop connection.
The battery charge indicator did come up so there was still a hard connection between the devices.

If I reboot the KX and reconnect to the iPhone they will try to connect via the Hotspot iOS trust handshake like normal.
I'm wondering if the KX shuts off the USB-C port after a disconnect.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[jmm123]

Hate to labour this point :
but for me now - it is more about why?

Today I waited a whole 24 hrs
Connected phone to RED - no signal in RED Control.
So again I uncoupled and then coupled back the RF 35mm lens (this time)
And the connection worked.

Prior to this I did uncouple and then couple the lens before switching on the camera but that did not work.

For me now - I would really love work out why this happens - is there some setting in the RED that might help this?
I guess it is a bug fix that they need to address.

I would love to know how many other people are affected by this and who may have just given up on the whole thing.

John

 

[Brian Timmons]

Hate to labour this point :
but for me now - it is more about why?

Today I waited a whole 24 hrs
Connected phone to RED - no signal in RED Control.
So again I uncoupled and then coupled back the RF 35mm lens (this time)
And the connection worked.

Prior to this I did uncouple and then couple the lens before switching on the camera but that did not work.

For me now - I would really love work out why this happens - is there some setting in the RED that might help this?
I guess it is a bug fix that they need to address.

I would love to know how many other people are affected by this and who may have just given up on the whole thing.

John

Hey John,
I know you mentioned having issues with RED support in the past but consider opening up another support case to definitively figure out this issue.

I am currently working with RED to understand my KX connection issue and they are forwarding to the engineers.
I also pointed them to this very REDuser thread.

One of my Komodo OGs also has the Komodo Link and it has been very solid even with the same iPhone that is having a problem with the KX.

Hopefully we can end these problems and film in peace.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Brian Timmons]

Just read this in the operational notes for V-Raptor:

• Some devices may experience intermittent connection issue over USB-C tethering.

I don’t see this same note for Komodo or Komodo X but wonder if it does affect those cameras as well.

I sent an email to RED’s Sr. Technical Support Specialist who is already looking into my issue with KX and iPhone so will report when I hear something.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Richard Lonsdale]

You can have several devices controlling the camera over wifi if needed, one device can monitor the image while another can control focus for example.

The USB-C link connection is unfortunately limited on iOS due to the way Apple implemented it.
It is only possible to use the local USB-C network connection via the hotspot features that requires a cellular network on the device to be shared...
So on a device with no SIM it is sadly just impossible to use. I have contacted them about this over the years but not much progress so far to have this solved.

FWIW, on Android you can use RED CONTROL tethered without any SIM or cell network.

Interesting that Android is less fussy. Does the USB-C connection need to be a particular speed - would 2.0 be OK?

 

[Brian Timmons]

Just read this in the operational notes for V-Raptor:

• Some devices may experience intermittent connection issue over USB-C tethering.

To follow up on the operational note above, John the Senior Tech Support Specialist from RED
responded that the issue above does not seem to affect Komodo and Komodo X.

I recently had a weekend where I tried 3 different iPhones (including my own) but could not reproduce the dropped connection across 2 shoot days which just shows how intermittent the issue is.

RED looked at the log file I supplied and did not think there was evidence of a bad USB-C port though they couldn't be sure without me sending the KX in for evaluation.

RED thinks it could either the USB-C to lighting cable or perhaps my iPhone 14 Pro Max lighting port might need additional cleaning as it was taken to a Apple store a few months ago to get the port cleaned.

I've tried 3 different cables (all MFI certified with 2 of them of the heavy duty variety) so I'm starting to veer away from that being the issue.

Will take my iPhone back to the Apple store to see if that helps.

I will say though that RED's tech support, specifically John, has been very helpful in responding and following up on not just this issue but a playback issue that I presented to them that was found to be
a user error (by me).

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA