UltraPrimes vs RPP's

[Harcharan Singh]

Hi,
I know this discussion has been done before but if we keep aside the price difference what are major difference in the RPP's and Ultraprime lenses..Pros and Cons.
Thanks in advance
Harcharan

 

[Andreas Höhn]

UP's Pros are imo : small size & weight and most importent availability of 16 focals (vs 6 RPP)

 

[Clint Lealos]

The biggest difference in performance is flares. UPs have a nice traditional flare, while RPPs sometimes have what I call a rainbow flare. Not so pretty, but not a big deal either. I use RPPs on 90% of my jobs and I love them. If I know the director likes to have a lot of flares and the project calls for it, I will use UPs. Also, the RPPs breath more. They are both super sharp lenses and similar color rendition. When I did a side by side test between the two it was hard to tell the difference until a flare or rack focus was thrown in the mix.

 

[Harcharan Singh]

RPPs'

RPPs'

Hi,
Do the Ultraprime and RPP's intercut properly?
Harcharan

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Clint, did you see these rainbow flares on every focal length ? I saw these on pics posted with the 18mm RPP, and was wondering if you get these with the other ones too.
I like playing with flares, but rainbow flares are not something I usually want... Do they change with the aperture ?

 

[Clint Lealos]

Hey Nils, I can't say I've definitely noticed them on all focal lengths, but I noticed them on more than just the 18mm. I smell a test shoot in my future They also don't show up all the time... only certain angles give you the dreaded rainbow flare. Sometimes you get a nice flare with the RPPs, but I think most would say the UPs flare is more appealing and easier to manage. I'll let you know the results when I test the full set of RPP for rainbow flares

 

[David Mullen ASC]

In the S.A.L.T. test, we didn't have the 18mm RPP, but we had most of the others, and I didn't notice a tendency towards rainbow flares even as I waved a bare light bulb around the frame from side to side, up & down, and across diagonally. The only thing I noticed was that the faint "narcissus", a ghost image of the bulb which most lenses create, not just RPP's, was red for some RPP's and green for others. I certainly wouldn't call RPP's "flarey" or hard to manage in that aspect, they are in the same league as Cooke S4's and Ultra Primes in that regards.

 

[Taylor Morrison]

Here is an example I think of the rainbow flare... shot on RED MX with 18mm RPP. First few frames at the head of the shot in the top right hand corner...We had a 1200 Par HMI just off the frameline and as I dollied I would catch the flare. Director loved it and kept it in the shot.

http://vimeo.com/20685458

Taylor

 

[Ketch Rossi]

All I can say is that I did a presentation at a certain place with certain people, and did something really bad, I did not told the truth and got in to trouble

Few Shots were made with the RPP and MP's and Canon Glass, then I said that the ones on Canon were MP's and the RPP's were Canon,
and the Canon RPP's and then MP's were RPP's and vice versa, I did not told the truth on a single shot, yet every one agreed that the images were fantastic.

NO one could tell the difference.

So grab your choice of glass and go shoot, for me is Master Primes, RPP's or Canon "L" series glass depending on needs

But I continue to hear great things about the UP's so we might end up with few sets of those as well

 

[Stephen Williams]

This is why I always do my own tests, some people have their own agenda so their 'tests' must be taken with a grain of salt.

All I can say is that I did a presentation at a certain place with certain people, and did something really bad, I did not told the truth and got in to trouble

Few Shots were made with the RPP and MP's and Canon Glass, then I said that the ones on Canon were MP's and the RPP's were Canon,
and the Canon RPP's and then MP's were RPP's and vice versa, I did not told the truth on a single shot, yet every one agreed that the images were fantastic.

NO one could tell the difference.

So grab your choice of glass and go shoot, for me is Master Primes, RPP's or Canon "L" series glass depending on needs

But I continue to hear great things about the UP's so we might end up with few sets of those as well

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Guys, thank you so much for your feedback !

Right now I'm trying to decide between a RPP set and an Illumina set (I can get one for a similar price than the RPP set).
I never got a chance to try the RPPs, but I enoyed working with UP and MP on the Red.
On the other side, I like the additional stop on the Illuminas, and the slightly softer more organic look looks nice too on the Red. Plus I think they are a bit lighter than the RPP...
But I guess it's easier to soften a image (using filters or in post) than to make it sharper. And with the MX and Epic coming, I'm not sure I will need that extra stop very often...
Hmmm, not an easy choice.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Guys, thank you so much for your feedback !

Right now I'm trying to decide between a RPP set and an Illumina set (I can get one for a similar price than the RPP set).
I never got a chance to try the RPPs, but I enoyed working with UP and MP on the Red.
On the other side, I like the additional stop on the Illuminas, and the slightly softer more organic look looks nice too on the Red. Plus I think they are a bit lighter than the RPP...
But I guess it's easier to soften a image (using filters or in post) than to make it sharper. And with the MX and Epic coming, I'm not sure I will need that extra stop very often...
Hmmm, not an easy choice.

Nils, if you want to come and test the RPP, PM me.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Thank you Steven-Marc, I will.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

This is why I always do my own tests, some people have their own agenda so their 'tests' must be taken with a grain of salt.

Stephen,

not sure I understand the context of your reply, but always test your own gear for your project, unless you have
a source you can trust that knows what you are looking for.

I am a Professional of deep Integrity and do not have an agenda when reviewing gear, NEVER did NEVER will,
Money and or Gifts or Free stuff, does not buy my Integrity, this was a test I did to few Pro's that were always
arguing with me about RPP's vs. MP's and I prove them wrong, so I hope you are not implying that I have an
agenda when offering my opinion and or advise or reviews in any and all the gear of which I have been specking
here for years

 

[Harcharan Singh]

Thanks guys

Thanks guys

Hi,
thanks for your replies.Actually we own two sets of RPP's and they are giving us excellent results..completed almost 20 full lenght feature films with those lenses...as Ultraprimes are being used for a long time here in India , it becomes difficult to make some DP's understand ..their only worry is how a lowly priced lens as RPP can match with its high priced competitor...But we are happy with the RPP's ...
See you all guys at NAB...
Harcharan

 

[Ramesh Jai]

Hi,
thanks for your replies.Actually we own two sets of RPP's and they are giving us excellent results..completed almost 20 full lenght feature films with those lenses...as Ultraprimes are being used for a long time here in India , it becomes difficult to make some DP's understand ..their only worry is how a lowly priced lens as RPP can match with its high priced competitor...But we are happy with the RPP's ...
See you all guys at NAB...
Harcharan

Could you kindly post some images shot with the RPPs? Thanks

 

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen,

not sure I understand the context of your reply, but always test your own gear for your project, unless you have
a source you can trust that knows what you are looking for.

I am a Professional of deep Integrity and do not have an agenda when reviewing gear, NEVER did NEVER will,
Money and or Gifts or Free stuff, does not buy my Integrity, this was a test I did to few Pro's that were always
arguing with me about RPP's vs. MP's and I prove them wrong, so I hope you are not implying that I have an
agenda when offering my opinion and or advise or reviews in any and all the gear of which I have been specking
here for years

I don't see how you can draw any conclusion at all from that test, it seems a strange thing to do from my perspective.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I don't see how you can draw any conclusion at all from that test, it seems a strange thing to do from my perspective.

The conclusion was simple, no one could tell the difference from a $2,000 Still Canon Glass, to a $3.800 Red Pro Prime
to a $23,750 MAster Prime Glass!

That was the purpose of my test.

I choose lenses and all the gear based on needs and never based on FUD, and or which is the less or most expensive.

I have and use this 3 type of Glass, and got in to a small discussion that I put to Silence with this test, no other point.

 

[jimhare]

Hi Ketch,

Your test is completely valid and I have had similar results testing my Zeiss ZFs against MPs.

You are the perfect person to ask this as you are unbiased and uncompromising:

Optically, I think we all agree you can get fantastic results from a wide range of lenses, but when it comes down to performance on set, reliability of information (such as distance markings) and overall build, the higher cost lenses are worth the difference in price because of these factors.

For me, since I use my ZFs with the OConnor FF1, lens marking accuracy isn't a real issue and the Duclos Cine mods make them fabulous.

I keep wondering if I would be happier with RPPs or beyond, but when I look at my own situation start to think probably not...

What's your take?

Thanks for your tireless efforts Ketch, Red wouldn't be the same without you!

The conclusion was simple, no one could tell the difference from a $2,000 Still Canon Glass, to a $3.800 Red Pro Prime
to a $23,750 MAster Prime Glass!

That was the purpose of my test.

I choose lenses and all the gear based on needs and never based on FUD, and or which is the less or most expensive.

I have and use this 3 type of Glass, and got in to a small discussion that I put to Silence with this test, no other point.

 

[Ned Wilson]

Hi,
I know this discussion has been done before but if we keep aside the price difference what are major difference in the RPP's and Ultraprime lenses..Pros and Cons.
Thanks in advance
Harcharan

RPP's
Pro: Sharp. Great edge to edge focus. Especially useful for 4.5k 2:35 staging. Cheap to buy.
Con: Some DP's are not nuts about the flaring qualities. Others don't think it's an issues. Focus draw is not as progressive as higher end cine lenses. Heavy.

UP's
Pro: Sharp. Nice Flare. Lightweight. Will rent consistently. More progressive focus scale.
Con: Price.

I've shot features on RPP's and love them for certain looks and especially for going to the outer edges of the chip, the vignetting (lack of) and edge to edge is superlative. I've run into the rainbow flare and it's a matter of finding the right combo of stop/focal length to get it aesthetically acceptable.

I've also used UP's quite a bit. Just finished a commercial campaign on UP's. So sharp I had to use Classic Soft 1 to get it where I wanted.

I don't buy that RPP's, Canon, and MP's are indistinguishable. Perhaps to the layman. A valid test would be to ABC test them with the same constants, lens being the only variable. If I were to purchase any of these, that'd be the first thing I'd want to do.