UI Rant...

[Harry Clark]

Luki,
Please post step-by-step these "very good" and "very fast" workflows so that we cinematographers can give correct advice to our clients regarding post processing.
Right now my advice to them goes something like, "you should download Redcine, but make sure you're not running Quicktime 7.4 and make sure your machine has an ATI card. Do you know Scratch? No? Welllll... Redcine has a kinda different look and feel than other pro apps you might be used to but don't worry it's OK. Or you can use the Quicktime proxies and online your footage later. EDL support is a little weak, but you've got a kid there writing scripts, right? Hello? Hello? Funny, I lost them..."
Harry
ps- that was meant to be funny, not a flame... Sorry if it's not "polite" enough!

 

[Joel Kaye]

ps- that was meant to be funny, not a flame... Sorry if it's not "polite" enough!

When I have been talking to likely renters the first questions are almost always workflow questions of some sort. People with any level of experience these days get why workflow is such a big deal.

 

[SF Geek]

Do you need an intel chip to run the reference files? I tried running the reference files on a friend's computer who has a G5. I couldn't get anything but a white screen. He does have QT7.4 though.

Yes, Luki tell us what to say. Post wasn't my bag, but now it has to be.

 

[laguun]

No - the workflow you want is slow. There are many very good and very fast workflows being used by post facilities all over the world.

Luki, with all due respect.
The speed advantages of a clipster basing workflow compared to a scratch basing workflow are:
clipster is doing multitrack 4K realtime, as dissolves. scratch has to render them.
clipster is doing multitrack 4K realtime colorcorrection. scratch has to render them.
clipster has 4k realtime output. scratch doesnt ofer that, you have to render, and load it into a clipster (or server/dci player) to see 4k in full 4k.

etc.

therefore i fail to see where our workflow with clipster is slow, as, different from scratch, it doesnt have to render everything in 4K in the end, as are planning the ingest while shooting.

But, that is valid for maybe 1% of the camera customers, and thats the important topic here.

a) The typical user wont have a 4K reaktime system as clipster or baselight, he wont have a 2K realtime system as scratch or speedgrade.
b) If the customer has a 2K or 4K di, they will in have in >95% of the installations here have no scratch, but $$$.$$$ or $.$$$.$$$ in quantel, discreet, nucoda, dvs, iridas, sgo, matrix, davinci, pogle etc etc.

And they have to transcode for Avid, Quantel, discreet, Adobe, Sony etc. That takes time and is therfore slow.

If they are on windows or linux they have to transcode -everything- before editing it.

Then they have to use differen custom written 3hrd party beta applications to embed metadata.

Then, in the case of Avid, they have to import everything.

On the way back to redcine, they once more have to use 3hrd party beta products.

All this takes -lots- of time, is complicated and has to be explained to any AVID editor, and discreet commercial guru, and Quantel 60 year old colorist - and that is what i am referring to.

If you think that it makes sense for a $$.$$$.$$$ company as cineplus, who have baselights, infernos, over 60 avids and are on of the rather important customers here in berlin, then you dont understand what we in the field have to deal with.

There is no one-stop finishing workflow (for hdcam and 35mm there is), there is no 4k display capable DI or editing system (for 35mm there are), there is no single operating system solution (for hdcam and 35mm there are) and thats the competition.

This all will change, Red is pretty aware about many of these issues it seems.

But it makes no sense at all to pretend that it would be different -right now-.

FCP is an offline editor, and scratch has to render -everything- in reds 4K. There are solutions who are online 4K realtime editing and finishing and DI, and they are the benchmark for any red customer as us. And the goal should be to have the optimal 4K camera (which is red for many of our clients) for the optimal 4K workflow (which scratch isnt, as its neither 4K realtime, nor has 4k i/O, nor 4K full display - scratch is a good 2K DI with redcode support and once red communicates the redcode raw format to other di manufacturers, we probably see 2K and 4K redcode raw systems).

Scratch is a good system, i always underlined that, but if the customers want 4K realtime or do have clipster/baselight etc as many do here in berlin and elsewhere, the workflow isn´t as streamlined as with 35mm right now, and thats the competition, and thats where customer go away because their workflow doesnt fit to red (but does with hdcam and 35mm) and that is what should change.

 

[Sean]

I didn't read all nine pages of this thread. But speaking of keeping with the OS's UI, someone mentioned the handy Command+Z...however, Ctrl+Z (the PC's version of that command) doesn't seem to work with RedCine on my PC. What is the Undo command for RedCine on a PC?

This may be a question only vaguely related to the preceding discussion, I realize. But I wasn't gonna start a whole new thread just to ask this! ;-)

 

[Gunleik Groven]

No - the workflow you want is slow. There are many very good and very fast workflows being used by post facilities all over the world.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Lucas... With all due respect.... Eliminate Scratch from that equation, have a look at this post and tell me...

Scratch is probably great, and when I get my cam, a demo-run of Scratch and visiting a Scratch facility with some footage is the next step, but, that doesn't make your statement valid.

Currently the workflow is not here, and that is very much due to RedCine/RedAlert/CommandLines disability to communicate in a rational way with other applications.

As a first step ( ! ) that's all we ask.

But I may be wrong and would love to be proven wrong.
Please do so.

Gunleik