Tokina Vista Prime Lens light weight stills alternatives

[Ian D]

Hi all, I am looking for a recommendation for good light weight stills lens that would match the tokina vista primes look. Main reason is for a light weight b cam gimbal setup that will match well to the A cam. B cam gimbal Ronin rs3 pro. I have a set of stills sigma art primes but these do not have as much character as far as I can see.

I used to run the ronin 2 and it can take the weight no problem but I want something lighter.

I greatly appreciate you recommendations.

Best wishes
Ian

 

[Jon Shaw]

I saw that Tokina are releasing there Opera range of DSLR glass, already have a 50 and 16-28 which wouldnt surprise me if base on the Vistas

 

[Ian D]

Thanks Jon, if any thing would be close in look it should be them. I hope they release a few more lens in that line. I had the 16-28mm vista zoom and felt it was a great lens but had a different look than the primes, every time I put it on it just looked different, sharper, and color was different. i wonder of the opera zoom is similar.

 

[Phil Holland]

I saw that Tokina are releasing there Opera range of DSLR glass, already have a 50 and 16-28 which wouldnt surprise me if base on the Vistas

Nope. 50mm Opera is an entirely different design.

 

[Ian D]

I guess there is no great equivalent.

 

[Phil Holland]

I guess there is no great equivalent.

Equivalent is one thing, but "plays well" is likely the direction here. I sort of go between Tokina Cinema Vista Primes and my Sigma Cine Primes depending on what I'm doing. And sometimes I do use them together on projects. Sigmas are rehoused ART series lenses and those indeed would be lighter weight. But yes. Differences in the bokeh, flare, etc.

That would be my recommendation and there's a fair bit of focal lengths to grab there, which is why it somewhat works.

I've also used my Zeiss Otus lenses next both of those, but they are heavier generally than the ART series from Sigma.

Tokinas are their own thing though. That unique character, pretty much the same for all lenses, is why they are special.

The next real adventure is jumping into the world of smaller PL lenses like DZO Vespids, Meike FF, or Dulens. Much smaller, still PL, but slower in T-Stop.

I think one other recommendation is to look at Irix. I have their PL lenses and they are a nice look. I would also say they are their own thing as they have a nice character themselves. They need more focal lengths though.

 

[Ian D]

The smaller pl's are super interesting. I defo feel the tokinas have the nicest look of the mid tear lens. I would replace them with a smaller set but some how I feel the new smaller pl lens are a drop in quality. Maybe I should try and do a dzo and tokina side by side.

 

[Matt W.]

Is the the axial CA a good thing?

Now I am clearly wrong as it seems PV rehouses them basically untouched as Panaspeeds and Master built guys re-coat just one surface and everyone seems delighted...

Wait, where did you hear this?

And I think people like the axial CA on S4s and especially on K35s.

To me, Cooke S2 bokeh is the nicest for nature scenes (looks like watercolors) but for cities at night or anything more geometric the overcorrected spherical aberration and curvature of field give it a "messy" look rather than a "painterly" one whereas the axial CA on the K35s is smooth and soft. Really like the K35s and S2s. Only own a poor man's version of either.

 

[Jon Shaw]

Nope. 50mm Opera is an entirely different design.

Good to know...

 

[Ian D]

Wait, where did you hear this?

And I think people like the axial CA on S4s and especially on K35s.

To me, Cooke S2 bokeh is the nicest for nature scenes (looks like watercolors) but for cities at night or anything more geometric the overcorrected spherical aberration and curvature of field give it a "messy" look rather than a "painterly" one whereas the axial CA on the K35s is smooth and soft. Really like the K35s and S2s. Only own a poor man's version of either.

I actually contacted Master built when they came out first and asked if they could take my tokina's and recoat them to make them masterbuilt. I was very innocent and just assumed they were adapted tokinas. They said that was not what was happening or at least they would not do that.

Are they the same origin lens?

I love the s2's also but am in line with your thinking Matt, the classic lens are wonderful in the daylight but tend to become mush when they are pushed into the darkness.

Perhaps I can filter my way to a comparable image with the sigma dslr art prime lens. My ideal is to use the rs3 pro as the only gimbal I will use., which is a push with the raptor.

 

[Phil Holland]

Tokinas have been used as the host optics for a variety of series now, both well known ones and some very limited sets. But rarely is it "just the coatings". Element swaps, air gaps, and stripping coatings of various elements even. Recoating is also a thing.

They are astounding on their own, but it's interesting that the design lends itself so nicely to modification. I went through a few rounds of customization earlier this year just to explore all that could be done. Pretty interesting.

This isn't exactly surprising though as it's been done in the past as well. And now that rehousing various still lenses is extremely in fashion, you'll likely see even more of that.

Imagine taking cheap vintage stuff and truly transforming it into something new for instance.

That said, I do think many are chasing unicorns sometimes when you sit down and test all the lenses out there. And I am indeed one who does enjoy a good chase occasionally, but some things aren't exactly worth the run. There's a particular set of custom optics near me that is a pure coatings strip and it's just a look that's too aggressive for nearly every scenario you can imagine. On the flip side, the real hard modifications some would like to do are a really big, tall, and fast unicorn that nobody has really done yet. But there's too many reasons (time, difficulty, $$$$$) to do those things.

 

[M Harvey]

Not helpful for OP, but I was wondering if the Vista Primes maybe would "play nice" with the new Angenieux Optimo primes. I have very limited experience with either set (having only tested a single Optimo prime, though I've used the zooms), but maybe there's something there in the high resolution but "gentle" rendering and slightly warmer color. Given the pricing, I suppose the Tokinas are more likely to be the b-camera/2nd unit/pick-up lenses for the Optimos! They also weigh about the same.

If I were in OP's situation, I guess I'd test Zeiss Milvus (definitely cooler) and Canon CN-E next to the Tokinas and see if either does any better than the Sigmas when intercut.

 

[Matt W.]

I actually contacted Master built when they came out first and asked if they could take my tokina's and recoat them to make them masterbuilt. I was very innocent and just assumed they were adapted tokinas. They said that was not what was happening or at least they would not do that.

It sounds like the Tokinas don't look a world apart from CN-E or even Rokinon or even Meike? Obviously Tokina is better (I haven't used any of these so I wouldn't know) but the difference in color rendition and contrast is way less than the variation you'd get from most ND filters probably. I wish I owned a set of S2s, but I'm just a hobbyist, and would rent on a paid job if I could probably. I think it's cool how on Her they customize coatings and lens choice almost on a per-scene basis. It's a little ridiculous knowing some of the most expensive stuff out there is just rehoused cheap still lenses, but in a way encouraging to know you can get 90% of the way there (in terms of look, not mechanics) with cheap still lenses.

 

[Phil Holland]

It sounds like the Tokinas don't look a world apart from CN-E or even Rokinon or even Meike?

I'd say that's fairly incorrect. But "world apart" doesn't mean much. Tokinas have far less CA than CN-E or Rokinon for instance. Hard to do a direction comparison with Meikie at a different T-Stop, but distortion is rather different and I have both sets.

 

[Matt W.]

I'd say that's fairly incorrect. But "world apart" doesn't mean much. Tokinas have far less CA than CN-E or Rokinon for instance. Hard to do a direction comparison with Meikie at a different T-Stop, but distortion is rather different and I have both sets.

You would know better than I. I've never worked with any of those really, just seen clips online.

 

[Ian D]

Might be fun to see what a unicorn lens for people. For me The Vista primes with less green flares and about 750g lighter would be amazing. At present the atlas Mercury lens seem to be a wonderful new addition to the lens world and tick just about all the box's also.