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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To the fellow filmmakers.. a vent.

Clayton Taylor

Clayton Taylor

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So... There's a short film festival held in Shreveport, Louisiana every year with a $50k grand prize... I entered in 2014, and planned on entering in 2015... I partnered with a childhood friend, who is a talented writer, to help me co-write the short film. We broke the film into four sections and were to each write two sections then rewrite, etc. To have time to properly go through pre-production, locations, casting, fundraising, etc., I needed to have the script completed (or almost complete) by early December... It's now January and he hasn't finished his part. It would take him an hour or so to knock out the final section... plus the short ended up not really going the direction that I originally envisioned. I'm not the most experienced writer, so I wanted the help this time around... Now it's pretty much too late to get it together, so I'm calling it a bust...

How do you handle your projects? Do you write everything yourself? Do you co-write? If you co-write how do you find collaborators? Apparently, the friend route didn't work out this time. Do you have others send in their scripts and you produce them? If so, how do you put a call out for scripts? If a prize was to be won, how do you contract percentage splits (if you're producing, you're the one that's out of pocket, not the writer)?

Any tips or thoughts would be appreciated.

TL;DR - co-writing sucks and backfired - need tips on finding or writing good stories since I'm not an experienced writer.
 
My personal understanding is that nine times out of ten, when a collaborator falls to the wayside it is because I was not being a generous partner. Folks lose interest in joint ventures when they feel they are unable to make a substantial creative contribution. We are all artists, and when a partner makes us feel like a technician it is devaluing.

Sometimes we have to whore ourselves for paying jobs, so when working on our own projects or non-paying jobs we are all less likely to compromise. I try to keep that in mind and make sure that my partners can get their hooks into the work and maintain authorship of their contribution. It is the only way to keep them engaged. If you are paying them you can take liberties commensurate with their pay. There has to be a balanced give and take. The more you give, the more people will enjoy working with you... Always.

I don't know where you and your friend went wrong but this is where I would start looking if it were me.
 
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That's just it though Scott - I was giving him majority of the freedom as he's the most experienced writer- I had a skeleton and we were going to fill it in together. We outlined together first - everyone was happy. Then with filling it in he got a serious case of procrastination and it's just taken forever to get where we are now... He's a habitual procrastinator - even with his own projects. But he assured me up front that wouldn't be the case with this one - yet it happened. smh. It was going to be "his" project as well - I had him co-directing with me also.
 
Scott Crawley said:
My personal understanding is that nine times out of ten, when a collaborator falls to the wayside it is because I was not being a generous partner. Folks lose interest in joint ventures when they feel they are unable to make a substantial creative contribution. We are all artists, and when a partner makes us feel like a technician it is devaluing.

Sometimes we have to whore ourselves for paying jobs, so when working on our own projects or non-paying jobs we are all less likely to compromise. I try to keep that in mind and make sure that my partners can get their hooks into the work and maintain authorship of their contribution. It is the only way to keep them engaged. If you are paying them you can take liberties commensurate with their pay. There has to be a balanced give and take. The more you give, the more people will enjoy working with you... Always.

I don't know where you and your friend went wrong but this is where I would start looking if it were me.
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Good post. I completely agree. But sometimes despite of everything one ends up stuck with people who's hearts are not in it. So it's better to partner up with people with at least an honest attempt at a track record and pay close attention, like Scott said, to what one brings to the table. In other words, leave friendship aside and treat this as professional endeavour.
 
Hi Clayton,
Here's what has helped me write ... it seems a little out of left field but it has worked for me. I got Final Draft (the scriptwriting software) and, two books, 'The Hollywood Standard' and 'The Complete Screenwriters Manual'. The funny thing is that these books are just about the style and construction of your script as the words appear on the page. I found that when I was using the software and rigorously formatting my script to 'professional standards' the actual quality of my writing got higher. The old adage, 'Look Sharp, Feel Sharp, BE Sharp'.
 
Clayton Taylor said:
So... There's a short film festival held in Shreveport, Louisiana every year with a $50k grand prize... I entered in 2014, and planned on entering in 2015... I partnered with a childhood friend, who is a talented writer, to help me co-write the short film. We broke the film into four sections and were to each write two sections then rewrite, etc. To have time to properly go through pre-production, locations, casting, fundraising, etc., I needed to have the script completed (or almost complete) by early December... It's now January and he hasn't finished his part. It would take him an hour or so to knock out the final section... plus the short ended up not really going the direction that I originally envisioned. I'm not the most experienced writer, so I wanted the help this time around... Now it's pretty much too late to get it together, so I'm calling it a bust...

How do you handle your projects? Do you write everything yourself? Do you co-write? If you co-write how do you find collaborators? Apparently, the friend route didn't work out this time. Do you have others send in their scripts and you produce them? If so, how do you put a call out for scripts? If a prize was to be won, how do you contract percentage splits (if you're producing, you're the one that's out of pocket, not the writer)?

Any tips or thoughts would be appreciated.

TL;DR - co-writing sucks and backfired - need tips on finding or writing good stories since I'm not an experienced writer.
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Hi Clayton, finding someone to create or collaborate with is similar to finding a life partner; the person in question may have great attributes but you may still find it difficult to work together. And just like a partner, hoping that your friend/collaborator will change is a lost cause. I think choosing your partner/collaborator carefully is vital for any project.
Personally, I like to work with someone who has skills and a desire to work in an area I have limited ability so that our work is complimentary.
Sorry to hear about this project. Good luck on your next one.
 
He's a habitual procrastinator - even with his own projects. But he assured me up front that wouldn't be the case with this one - yet it happened. smh. It was going to be "his" project as well - I had him co-directing with me also.
Click to expand...

So, there's really no problem here at all ... you have discovered that you can't work with him. Lesson learned, move on. Just use him for 'smaller' jobs.
 
Thanks everyone - yeah lesson learned. so how do you guys go looking for a co-writer? Where would be the best place to post an announcement?
 
Co-writing is hard. I co-wrote two short films with a good friend. She's written a ton of scripts and I like her work. One worked from an idea of mine, the other based on a novella of hers and the closer we got to each other on story, the worse it got. The one that was the most collaborative, did most poorly. It was neither her voice nor mine.

Even on TV shows where you can have many writers, once the bones of the thing, the outline, is complete, it's given one writer to write.

I think it's wise to take notes on a script, or on an outline but maybe you can finish the script yourself? That's what I'd do.
 
For years thought I would love to have a writing partner, they could help sure up the areas were I was weakest. Thing is it is hard to find someone who is motivated to work on spec. And just as often, I avoided doing the writing. After years of writing and avoiding writing, I got better and now it is fun to write and no longer need a writing partner. So I wouldn't be too hard on your friend, he did teach you valuable lesson. When Jon Steward wanted to make a movie, all the writers he wanted were too busy to do it. So even someone as talented as Jon has a hard time finding the right partner and so he wrote it with the author of the book. Many great scripts have been co-written, so it may be you haven't found the right one yet. Or start writing by yourself. Most first scripts are terrible, I know mine were, but if you stick with it, you will get better.
 
I completely get your POV (i understand!!)...
Finding co-writers isn't easy. Most times, you both find each other. Kind of like "i like to direct, You like to write", or "I like visuals, You like words" or "I am an extrovert, who loves being around actors and on the set, but You are an introvert and loner, who lives your world in your head". e.t.c

The one similarity or middle ground is both of you love telling stories (similar stories) in the same way. Whether with words or pics.

But having that kind of dynamic and understanding your differences (and fortes!) usually goes a long way into a successful collabo.

Core writers and directors/dops/producers are usually two different kinds of people. They suffer from one disease (passion for filmmaking), but exhibit different symptoms (ego, procastrination, creativity, work ethic, talent, e.t.c)

If you are lucky, you get them in one package: Director is the same person as the writer. This is usually one of the most successful collabos (and the hardest). And this is where most successful directors have started from.

If not, then the ills you talk about will plague you. You have to persevere and hope you find the right person (not the perfect person). Just the writer that you can endure! And can endure you too!
 
Screenwriting competitions or writing forums might help too. Not that you enter the competitions to win them, but you enter to "win" the writer's acquaintance.

One other thing, writers tend to "respect" or appreciate directors, who has something to show. Kind of like a visual motif... might not be a good story, Just something to say, "Hey, these are my directions and visuals, and style, and i know the story sucks, but if you give me your good story, i can make a good film out of it".
Most writers would willingly give their right arm, and a couple of scripts for that... From there, the rest is up to you, no?
 
Clayton, I may can offer a different pathway to getting a good script finalized. For one, start far enough ahead of time to get the initial idea on "paper"... set it aside for a proper length of time and then revisit it. I've found I see it through different eyes after it has been left to molt for awhile. And I've never made a script worse than the original by doing a re-write.

And there is a step I would suggest (that I haven't tried yet, but intend to) to hurry up the process. That is, engage a professional script-reader to analyze your story and suggest ways to punch it up.

Then, once you've got the plot nailed down, if writing dialog is not your strong suit, then seek out someone who is good at dialog and collaborate with them. But it is your story... such outside help should be considered your employees unless you are indeed looking for someone to collaborate with for the foreseeable future.
 
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I briefly had a partner in writing back in 2005/2006 when we were working on a spy thriller. However, our weekly meetings quickly showed he wasn't carrying his weight about 3 months in. 8 of those meetings he showed up with nothing (no notes, revisions, ideas) and I knew that's where the collaboration had to stop.

On the opposite end of the spectrum I was hired by a studio in 2012 to produce a treatment along with 5 other writers. We had some great brainstorming sessions and produced a "codex" and went to work. The goal was for all of us to turn out a unique version of the story while hitting various broad strokes that the studio defined. Worked great, got paid. My version was in the final running for production until mid last year and they are moving forward with a less edgy draft. Hopefully I'll be able to shoot my version later on though.

Collaboration is a tricky thing. Movies don't get made without some sort of collaboration, but not everybody is cut out for the "mission critical" mindset.

Nearly every writer I know, minus a few exceptions, does indeed have a writing partner however. No right or wrong way to go about it. Discovering the appropriate level of collaboration, work ethic, and creative chemistry is tricky. But when it works, it works well.

These days I enjoy writing on my own and consult with a few very trusted writers and producers when necessary. More or less meaning people I've worked with in the past who have the experience and opinions I'm looking for.
 
Clayton Taylor said:
Thanks everyone - yeah lesson learned. so how do you guys go looking for a co-writer? Where would be the best place to post an announcement?
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Okay, this is probably not practical advise you can put into action quickly, but this how I finally found excellent writing partners.

First I put together a project for an online writers registry showcasing great writing talent in whereby I would also interview them (Of course filming them with an Epic camera :smiley: ). Then I got our state government to fund it and declare it an official registry of the best writing talent in the state. This was done in coordination of the ministry of culture. Then they selected 25 of the best writers according to their judgement (mostly novelists and poets). Then I offered to teach half of them (12 was the limit) a free screenwriting workshop designed to introduce an advanced writer to the art and craft of screenwriting. During this seven-week-long workshop we wrote and co-wrote about 40 very short screenplays. During this time I got a front-row seat to experience their process and to learn who really had the drive, personality and general compatibility with me. After the workshop ended I proposed to a couple of them to collaborate on turning a couple of the ideas into a full-length screenplays. So far it's working out great.

Before all this I had about 4 failed attempt to partner up with people for pretty much the same reasons many people have stated here.
 
Thank you for all of the pointers. I appreciate the help. I may just need to practice until I can meet up with the right person/people. Thank you again.
 
If you don't have a partner, then a mentor is great. You need someone else with eyes on your stuff. Consider a wrting mentor as you work through drafts. Trusted friends are good, but industry professionals with an understanding of your goals is much better.

Consider also the reasons you want a co-writer. Might it be because you secretly don't want all the responsibility?

Co-writers now seem to be defined as "writing teams" that is different wording that creates a different approach to the work. Maybe you can go it alone with most stuff, but when it comes to writing you'd rather be part of a team?

Most of these questions are rhetorical, but designed to help you understand and focus in on what you are really needing.


Battistella
 
I always used to want a writing partner just so I hard someone to help generate ideas by bouncing ideas or writing back and fourth and having chats about the story but I've since given up on that and tend to just write a bit of nonsense now and then until I eventually find the will to sit down and force myself to write something feature worthy. I never thought of a mentor, I guess I never really thought or even knew of someone to ask or something.
It seems like there is too much horror stories with writing partners falling out and then having to sort out the rights for it to be worth the effort unless it's a partnership that grew naturally out of someone you met who had a similar interest in filmmaking and you just ended up writing together for some reason, it's a bit like cats I guess they don't really get on in most circumstances but they can grow to tolerate one another.
 
This might not help with co-writing but I learned through experience that I can't co-write at all:) I can always write or paint great stuff when I'm alone, so It might be worth trying to go solo!
 
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