To buy a Scarlet or not to buy, that is the question…

[Paramon Ivanovich]

There's one thing I don't completely understand. I read his article, but I guess I'm still not getting it... Why would he go on a job with a camera he doesn't trust?

because believe it or not, you can hypnotize 75%of your clients saying: I'm shooting on RED, and Mr Bloom's statement is another proof of that,
most likely wasn't even his decision, but his client

 

[Philip Bloom]

I added a reply to your post, however I just deleted it. I received a message from a Very Important Person suggesting that I do so. So, I'm not going to continue this discussion any further. Besides, I'm in too good of a mood right now anyway. :-D

It's disappointing that you will not express your opinions because someone told you not to. No matter who they are. It's a free world with freedom of speech. If it's offensive and crosses the line then absolutely delete it, but otherwise why can you not express your opinion?

In my blog post I laid down some simple facts, and that is what they are facts, mixed in with my opinion (which I said you can take or not). I am not a hater, I am a RED USER. I love my Epic I just worry that people are going to jump into a very expensive purchase without knowing exactly what it will cost him. Brian you are 17. This is a big investment for anyone, especially a 17 year old. If you have the funds to do it then you are very lucky. My whole post was about making people aware of how much it will cost them and what they get for that. The last thing I want to see is a lot, in this depressed economic climate and depressed market especially, stretching themselves financially beyond their means for something that may not be able to give them the return they want or because they are buying it for the wrong reasons. I see many people looking to move from DSLRs to Scarlets. Its a huge financial difference and comes with a lot of pros and cons. Many, it seemed were not aware of them which concerned me. Hence me writing it in one post.

I bought my Epic for certain work. It was first and foremost a business decision, an artistic one second.

I have had some wonderfully positive feedback for the post from some very experienced RED users and of course a fair bit of anger directed at me for writing it which I expected but disappoints me enormously as it's very positive too. I love RED, i just know what it can and cannot do and that the Scarlet is not for every one.

It is far better that people buy the camera knowing what they are getting into rather than buying without the full facts. If you already know the facts then you are informed. Many were not. Better to have lots of happy owners than many unhappy owners!

 

[Philip Bloom]

because believe it or not, you can hypnotize 75%of your clients saying: I'm shooting on RED, and Mr Bloom's statement is another proof of that,
most likely wasn't even his decision, but his client

Paramon, I replied to this if you look back through the thread. If you want to say it again I will. I was referring to my short doco "The Redneck Hippie" it was the a personal project and I had a backup. I had one problem after another prior to this to the point I was not going to use it in on a paid job until I was 100% happy again. hence doing things like this, personal pieces to test them out. Even on this I had buzz all over my sound.

So no hypnotism needed. I only ever shoot on the right tool for the right job. I am lucky enough to own most cameras out there in the lower end. It is always my decision which camera to shoot with. I will never take a job where I am forced to use a camera that is not the right tool for that job. If they don't trust me in that then they are not a client I want to work for!

Best,

P

 

[Enrique Blein]

Hi Phil. I have to say that for 24 hours I was daunted by your article. I even wrote the email to cancel my Scarlet-X order and kept it saved as a draft. By the end of the day I had reached my conclusion: I will buy it. I am not new in this business, I have 20 years of experience, and yes it will mean a very big financial effort but a risk I am willing to take because I feel that in the long run, it will push me to new markets, and eventually to where I want to arrive: to DOP for films. I will put aside the angst generated by how I am going to make the money back and concentrate on taking my craft to new heights. I've been stuck now for ten years in a certain market and I want to move on, so beyond monetary reasons, I will take this leap of faith. Anyway, thank you for writing it, it has helped me clear my mind as to why I want to purchase it.

 

[Philip Bloom]

Hi Phil. I have to say that for 24 hours I was daunted by your article. I even wrote the email to cancel my Scarlet-X order and kept it saved as a draft. By the end of the day I had reached my conclusion: I will buy it. I am not new in this business, I have 20 years of experience, and yes it will mean a very big financial effort but a risk I am willing to take because I feel that in the long run, it will push me to new markets, and eventually to where I want to arrive: to DOP for films. I will put aside the angst generated by how I am going to make the money back and concentrate on taking my craft to new heights. I've been stuck now for ten years in a certain market and I want to move on, so beyond monetary reasons, I will take this leap of faith. Anyway, thank you for writing it, it has helped me clear my mind as to why I want to purchase it.

That is EXACTLY the response and reaction I was hoping for. Not for people to cancel their orders but to be clear in their heads that this is right for them! We can all be blinded by lust, me too!! Good to think long and hard before spending this much money! If you are solid in your decision then this is still for me after reading what I said and doing the maths then brilliant!!

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

That is EXACTLY the response and reaction I was hoping for. Not for people to cancel their orders but to be clear in their heads that this is right for them! We can all be blinded by lust, me too!! Good to think long and hard before spending this much money! If you are solid in your decision then this is still for me after reading what I said and doing the maths then brilliant!!

Great advice, Philip! It resonates with what Mr. Jannard himself had said in these forums not so long ago. My order is not getting cancelled either. I did want to say a BIG THANK YOU for bringing your researched, considered findings AND opinions to this forum. THIS is what we need. Sorry for the caps, I'm not yelling, just very excited to see this high quality contribution in the Scarlet forums. I hope we have many many more of these. I see Scarlet as a package of opportunity and constraints, just like every other camera out there, and its upto each individual to maximize the opportunities and challenge the constraints. And posts like yours will help us do exactly that. Thanks again!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Philip,

Thanks for your blog on the matter. I read it the first day I saw it posted, maybe 2-3 days ago if I remember correctly and have been digesting it since. In some ways it made me take a step back and look at the whole purchase and what it means for my life (possibly eating up some money for a house). I also looked at it and it further re-affirmed the decision that I had already made. I'm coming from using DSLR's, HVX's and EX1's. This was a huge jump for me, more than I anticipated it being. But when I look at what the camera does, the raw ability, albeit it time consuming in post as you mentioned (i'm not running the best system) I find this to be worth it for me.

The more I think about it and read about it the more confident I feel with the purchase I made. Thanks for helping with that. I'd love all the Epic frame rates but it's a silly amount of money for me. I'm only 23 and am progressing with my gear that I've owned. This will just be another step in that growth and progression.

-Jeffrey

 

[Noel Evans]

A 4 horse power car or 12 will have less speed than a Lamborgini or ferrari or audi rs6 even if the driver is a pro , you ll not be able to reach the speed needed for professional

it's a good thing I was talking about devices that capture motion images then.

 

[Andy White]

It's disappointing that you will not express your opinions because someone told you not to. No matter who they are. It's a free world with freedom of speech. If it's offensive and crosses the line then absolutely delete it, but otherwise why can you not express your opinion?

In my blog post I laid down some simple facts, and that is what they are facts, mixed in with my opinion (which I said you can take or not). I am not a hater, I am a RED USER. I love my Epic I just worry that people are going to jump into a very expensive purchase without knowing exactly what it will cost him. Brian you are 17. This is a big investment for anyone, especially a 17 year old. If you have the funds to do it then you are very lucky. My whole post was about making people aware of how much it will cost them and what they get for that. The last thing I want to see is a lot, in this depressed economic climate and depressed market especially, stretching themselves financially beyond their means for something that may not be able to give them the return they want or because they are buying it for the wrong reasons. I see many people looking to move from DSLRs to Scarlets. Its a huge financial difference and comes with a lot of pros and cons. Many, it seemed were not aware of them which concerned me. Hence me writing it in one post.

I bought my Epic for certain work. It was first and foremost a business decision, an artistic one second.

I have had some wonderfully positive feedback for the post from some very experienced RED users and of course a fair bit of anger directed at me for writing it which I expected but disappoints me enormously as it's very positive too. I love RED, i just know what it can and cannot do and that the Scarlet is not for every one.

Really, I don't understand why some people think Mr Bloom is biased... he's done a lot to push the DSLR world forwards - he's an educator and experienced professional in his own right (check his CV).

What, I think is the issue, is a simple one that a lot of people are taking a big step and the natural thing is to try and save money and look for alternatives...

I'm still weighing up Epic vs Scarlet (and have been for a while) - my Producers want the cheaper option... and it's their cash, not mine - so I carry on waiting (LOL). But, do a spreadsheet and compare the Epic M package against a Scarlet package (but include the extras/parts that come in the M pack) - that's Epic M pack = $58K vs Scarlet Package (with M matched contents) = (approx) $27K

We're seeing lots of threads about alternate SSD's (for example) and numerous other things about 'what level of kit I can get away with'. Well, there's no easy answer to any of this - but, when you're buying into RED, you're getting RED hardware (and software) - and, for that, you pay costs RED asks. But the solution that some people plan (use of a Pix or Aja) rather than extra SSD's is driven mainly by the cost of the SSD's... but (IMO) you're crippling what the Scarlet is all about if this is done (ie RAW) - and, if you're on a large shoot, you'd probably have to have an external device for proxy capture and instant dailes.

The RED system isn't like the DSLRS or the large sensor cameras (AF100/FS100/F3 etc) - it's a modular and high end cinema system - at a killer price. But, with that price, you need to be aware of caveats.

In terms of camera support kit - how much do you already own? Most DP's/shooters/etc have a range of kit bought/collected over years of working and doing jobs. Also, for larger budget work, a lot of kit is hired. It's only recently that the trend has moved into large scale ownership of high end kit (pushed by the RED revolution of getting cinema grade stuff into everyone's hands).

So, cost of ownership is something that needs to be figured into any budget you're allocating for kit - not just a base Scarlet pack, but all the extras you will need to shoot. I'm sure this will be echoed by all the seasoned guys here and even by Jannard himself...

Mr Bloom simply put his head on the chopping block and wrote a blog post that listed some 'gotcha's' that users might not be aware of... plus, some useful opinions and advice.

Take what you need from his words - do your own research and then make a purchase that makes you happy

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

There's biased and there's balanced. If you want biased, you should check out the CML lists. Pretty hardcore anti-RED stuff on there. Only endured because there are occasional good points that come thru.

 

[Kyle Gentz]

Philip,

Thanks for your blog on the matter. I read it the first day I saw it posted, maybe 2-3 days ago if I remember correctly and have been digesting it since. In some ways it made me take a step back and look at the whole purchase and what it means for my life (possibly eating up some money for a house). I also looked at it and it further re-affirmed the decision that I had already made. I'm coming from using DSLR's, HVX's and EX1's. This was a huge jump for me, more than I anticipated it being. But when I look at what the camera does, the raw ability, albeit it time consuming in post as you mentioned (i'm not running the best system) I find this to be worth it for me.

The more I think about it and read about it the more confident I feel with the purchase I made. Thanks for helping with that. I'd love all the Epic frame rates but it's a silly amount of money for me. I'm only 23 and am progressing with my gear that I've owned. This will just be another step in that growth and progression.

-Jeffrey

Jeffrey, Im coming from the same place you are. I'm 24, Most clients want that "blurry background stuff" they see all over the internet. After reading Philip's blog post on my RSS feed. It made me want it more. I very rarely need more than 23.976. I say it is a leap of faith, But if you are good and your clients pay the bills. I feel it will pay off. With what i have booked, It will be paid for by July 2012. With what "should be" booked or hopefully it will be paid for March/April. Considering it will be leaps and bounds better than my competitors in my area. I feel its the smartest move I could make.

That is EXACTLY the response and reaction I was hoping for. Not for people to cancel their orders but to be clear in their heads that this is right for them! We can all be blinded by lust, me too!! Good to think long and hard before spending this much money! If you are solid in your decision then this is still for me after reading what I said and doing the maths then brilliant!!

Philip, Thanks for education to people who have not spent the last 4 months+ on RU.net because I feel there will be many people getting in over their head.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Hi Phil. I have to say that for 24 hours I was daunted by your article. I even wrote the email to cancel my Scarlet-X order and kept it saved as a draft. By the end of the day I had reached my conclusion: I will buy it. I am not new in this business, I have 20 years of experience, and yes it will mean a very big financial effort but a risk I am willing to take because I feel that in the long run, it will push me to new markets, and eventually to where I want to arrive: to DOP for films. I will put aside the angst generated by how I am going to make the money back and concentrate on taking my craft to new heights. I've been stuck now for ten years in a certain market and I want to move on, so beyond monetary reasons, I will take this leap of faith. Anyway, thank you for writing it, it has helped me clear my mind as to why I want to purchase it.

I had a very similar reaction and conclusion, well said!

 

[Stacey Spears]

PB is a respectable filmmaker with a lot of experience and he has influence on many ten-thousands of followers. After reading his blog post I must say he sounds rather negative about the Scarlet.

I thought it was well written. I did not read the blog as he was being negative. I read it as he was trying to set people’s expectations appropriately. It’s one thing to pay $10k for a body; it’s another to get all the necessary parts to use it in your own situation. I think he was really trying to make people understand that.

Using media as an example. I would not go anywhere without at least four REDMAGs. I don't think one is enough at all. Trying to replace a REDMAG with an external recorder is also puzzling to me. If you are using the external recorder to generate some offline media, great! If you are trying to replace a REDMAG, you should probably re-consider.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Edit: Brian removed the posts this was a response to

I apologize in advance for continuing the off-topic discussion in this thread...

I'm not sure public forums for industry colleagues is the best place to act out personal vendettas.

While I'm not sure I agree with the concept of luck as it is often understood or, it may be worth considering, Brian, that there were a number of factors beyond your control that allowed you to be born to whomever you were and raised and educated in the environment in which you were. Forgetting that, for some, makes it difficult to relate to others born and raised into other situations, and can be a very destructive and isolating mentality.

You sent someone 22 emails without one response? You didn't think to stop sending them or try another method of communication that might not be hindered by spam filters? You know how many emails someone with 30k+ followers probably gets?

 

[Liam Hall]

My apologies to everyone for causing confusion regarding Philip's article. Again, my issue is not with his article.

Hey Brian,

When I was your age, long before the internet and email, I sent off letters to everyone I could think of, knocked on every door I could get an address for and even sat outside David Lean's office for 8 hours in the hope of handing him my resume. I know how it floats when starting out, as do all the professionals who post on Reduser...

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I'm bummed Jim Jannard has to moderate our silliness.

Let's focus on the Dec 1st date folks and drop the discussions-to-nowhere.

Can't wait to hear my camera is ready to ship out!

 

[Don Whitley]

To buy or not, I'm buying a scarlet I'm just waiting for the last minute before Dec, 31, to order before the prices go up, hoping that some people would have there scarlet and would have done some real world shooting , then I can read the positive and the negative feed back to see if its worth buying now or waiting.

 

[Kyle Gentz]

To buy or not, I'm buying a scarlet I'm just waiting for the last minute before Dec, 31, to order before the prices go up, hoping that some people would have there scarlet and would have done some real world shooting , then I can read the positive and the negative feed back to see if its worth buying now or waiting.

Seems like a solid plan.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm bummed Jim Jannard has to moderate our silliness.

So am I... Wish one of us mods would've got here first.

 

[Carter Cammack]

I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm holding out for the Nikon mount, to save a little lens money.
But I really do need a new computer system too, or the camera is useless, so I may do that first.
I need to sell some stuff I'm not using . . . like maybe . . . one of these feature scripts . . .