To buy a Scarlet or not to buy, that is the question…

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Has anyone done a lowlight test with the F3 and Epic? From what I've seen the F3 isn't way more sensitive in low light once a similar curve is applied to Epic.

I'm a bit worried about this myself. I'm coming from using the FS100 which is pretty incredible in its practically infinite battery life and low-noise iso 20,000 so I've been a little bit unsure lately about my decision to buy a Scarlet and sell my FS100. Unfortunately looking at the recent test posted on CML between alexa, epic, and f3 didn't really help. The F3 was taken down due to some error so I don't know about that, but the alexa sure made the epic look like a camera phone with 1-2 stops less latitude, and what looks like about 3-4 stops more noise! I love shooting in low light and being able to get away with really interesting creative lighting strategies in very low lighting situations. I'm a bit worried that EPIC will start getting very noisy in lower light. I love the flexibility of my FS100 (and similarly the F3) to gain up to 12db or even 15db (iso 2000-4000) with nearly no penalty to noise or latitude, and sometimes even go up to 30db (iso ~20,000) for run-and-gun or really tough situations and get surprisingly usable footage.

 

[Madjid El ayari]

For the price it cost it s a fucking highlevel tool 4:4:4 16 bit ...... you can be ready to shot for 14000 $, it s wild man !!!

I don t need 300fps and 5k : 4k is just big enough to me . And i am pretty sure that after Real Professional Color Corection over the Raw you ll not make the diference between the epic and the scarlet X

And if you need to record for hours you can record over an atomos ninja . It will be definitely better than the compression over the 5d , f3, .......af100

THe 5d is not a camera it s a photographic tool. the f3 af100 are not professional tool.

Ikonoskop is a real professional camera as the red scarlet , Alexa.........!


www.madjidelayari.com

 

[Ryan Emanuel]

I just realized that this may be a very healthy camera for young digital shooters like myself. Being part of the digital generation, I hear seasoned dp's saying all the time, "because these young bucks never had to shoot on film or incur the expense of film mags, the don't understand the discipline needed to compose and light shots right the first time." The scarlet may bring that discipline back. 24 minutes record time with your standard camera package, better make them count. We might get some better young dp's out there operating on scarlets.

 

[Liam Hall]

I think it's a great camera. I was getting a lot of emails about my thoughts so I did the blog post to get the info there. It is not perfect but then again nor should it be. The Epic is $xx K dollars for a reason.

Your article was bang on the money Philip. If you are shooting for the big screen buying Scarlet is a no brainer, but for the myriad of other work it's not so straight forward - people need to think carefully about their needs and less about the hype.

 

[sam karr]

Your article was bang on the money Philip. If you are shooting for the big screen buying Scarlet is a no brainer, but for the myriad of other work it's not so straight forward - people need to think carefully about their needs and less about the hype.

personally i don't care that much about 4k, but tell me another camera that shoots raw with that dynamic range at this price.

 

[Madjid El ayari]

Scarlet X it s really enough for the big screen ! Rubber from Quentin Dupieux has been completely done with a5 d mark II for the big screen !

 

[Liam Hall]

personally i don't care that much about 4k, but tell me another camera that shoots raw with that dynamic range at this price.

There isn't one. RAW is a major selling point for me as is 4k, but the reality is most people either have little idea how to grade their footage or little time. Also, other S35 cameras have codecs and workflows approved for transmission with easy workflows, use cheap media with low data rates and have little need for expensive accessories. For many applications those cameras may be a smarter choice. Choice is good thing.

 

[J Davis]

choice is a good thing, making the right choice is the tricky thing

info and testing helps people make that right choice

 

[Alwyn Kumst]

"your F3 has never given you problems". True but my F3 cost $14,000 without a battery or any media. By the time I purchased 2 batts and a charger and 2 media cards, a 32 and a 64 I was over $20k. Still no lenses and now the upgrade for my F3 is $3400? I shot a tv series Degrassi and used the Epic with no problems at all. Then I shot another series Highland Gardens ( working title) and had to maybe reboot the Epic a half dozen times. The reboot was quick and by the time the clapper was reloaded the Epic had rebooted. Flawless? No. Fantastic? Yes. After all my shooting on the Epic 90% of what I shot could have been done on the Scarlet. The 2 shows combined have over 90 TB of data. Every frame useable. No camera is the perfect camera but the best camera for the job is the one you can afford. Scarlet makes it affordable. So mr Bool don't be afraid to put that Epic to good use. Your time lapse photography in particular inspired me too.

 

[Noel Evans]

I was relying more on getting my money back through renting, I'm not sure anymore.

Sure people can make their money back through renting but there are things you'd need to have sorted. And these things are extensive. You'd need a package that consists of all required accessories including media and batteries to get through a full day. You'd need to have high level tripod support, mattebox plus filters, monitoring options, cables etc But more important you need to be Johnny on the spot with workflow, understanding completely how the process works if renter wants to A/ Shoot, offline edit, online for grade. B/ Shoot, prores/dnxhd edit and grade. C/ Full online workflow. If theres a glitch in a clip, what options are there to overcome this? You'll be the one they look to, to rectify it or explain the options. If you are wanting to rent it, Id suggest youd definitely need a Red Rocket card and a high spec machine they could additionally rent for transcodes etc. They may not have the gear or knowledge how to deal with any of the back end. In many cases youd be the one they would hire to DIT, so you would have to know and be able to arrange offloaded clips according to their requirements (this in itself is a technical role).

OR

You can simply be the cheapest rental around and then people might rent your gear and still push you for some of the above anyway. (Not a place to be though when your trying to earn some $)

Of course this is simply opinion and I dont know you, for you all the above maybe a piece of cake. But consider finally, there'll be other rental companies equiped with multi scarlets, with the support gear required for each and every one, with trained staff and the ability to say to a renter when/if a Scarlet goes down, "No problem, we'll have another unit to you this morning".

For me, renting is a zone I would just never cross in to as I dont want to do all the above, I just shoot and get paid for that.

In addition am I saying that people / individuals wont have success renting their Scarlets? I certainly am not.

the f3 af100 are not professional tool.

Any camera in the hands of a professional becomes a professional tool when used for the right application.

 

[nigelsmith]

PB's blog post seemed like a balanced and reasonable assessment to me.
An honest review that will be very informative for a lot of people.
I have done the sums myself and came to a similar conclusion.

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

MEDIA
-With two 64GB-or-one 128GB should be fine if you're shooting 4K. 5K different story.....
-Average Day on most features I've DIT have been around 250GB range. lowest has been 125GB and 320GB on the high. 1 or 2 Cameras.

POWER
-Batteries yes buy the APU from viewfactor. Relying on RedVolts may not be the best idea. There are plenty of cheap V-Lock Batteries that will work, same with chargers. (Can all be used with DSLR if you want)

Steven Soderbergh is my Digital Hero. They dealt with a whole bunch more issues than PB and they made two movies.
http://vimeo.com/9031359

 

[Mike Garrick]

"your F3 has never given you problems". True but my F3 cost $14,000 without a battery or any media. By the time I purchased 2 batts and a charger and 2 media cards, a 32 and a 64 I was over $20k. Still no lenses and now the upgrade for my F3 is $3400? I shot a tv series Degrassi and used the Epic with no problems at all. Then I shot another series Highland Gardens ( working title) and had to maybe reboot the Epic a half dozen times. The reboot was quick and by the time the clapper was reloaded the Epic had rebooted. Flawless? No. Fantastic? Yes. After all my shooting on the Epic 90% of what I shot could have been done on the Scarlet. The 2 shows combined have over 90 TB of data. Every frame useable. No camera is the perfect camera but the best camera for the job is the one you can afford. Scarlet makes it affordable. So mr Bool don't be afraid to put that Epic to good use. Your time lapse photography in particular inspired me too.

Thanx useful information on a number of levels. This is the sort of information needed by Scarlet owners that "keeps the faith" whilst waiting for the boxes to arrive.

 

[Madjid El ayari]

Any camera in the hands of a professional becomes a professional tool when used for the right application.

A 4 horse power car or 12 will have less speed than a Lamborgini or ferrari or audi rs6 even if the driver is a pro , you ll not be able to reach the speed needed for professional competition. And if you are not a real professionnal the power of the car will not make of you a better driver .


Www.madjidelayari.com

 

[Brian Lehrer]

Everything (and what Mr. bloom says) sounds reasonable to me. Different tools for different applications.
Im still a lil hazy on one thing: epic/scarlet low light performance - i know it wont perform like an FS100/F3 with their nice fat pixels, etc. but can i expect at least maybe a stop more usable ISO than a 5D? for reference, i find the 5D generally usable with a bit of noise at 800iso, and sometimes usable at 1600 iso (with a touch of noise reduction as well). One of my only real disappointments re: Epic/Scarlet is that people are saying never push it over 800? Even one stop better (pretty clean 1600, semi clean 3200) would make me really happy. I'm well aware of the importance of lighting for narrative/commercial/music vide work, but I also often shoot live concert performances and available light becomes an issue. I usually shoot these gigs iso800-1600 with 2.8 zoom lenses and its all pretty clean with some noise reduction (esp on web outputs). Im comfortable with all the other RED caveats (workflow, hdd space, battery, etc). I know i can get faster lenses- and i have faster primes, but for some work the zooms versatility on the quick is essential.

Thanks so much!
Has anyone made an iso test for epic? Would like to see when it breaks down even at web compressed 720p.

 

[Alex Baev]

Cid, as you watched this Vimeo piece with Soderbergh, did you catch yourself wishing for a 4K resolution or less questionable interview lighting choices? Or did you immerse yourself in an otherwise interesting conversation?

 

[David Rasberry]

Your article was bang on the money Philip. If you are shooting for the big screen buying Scarlet is a no brainer, but for the myriad of other work it's not so straight forward - people need to think carefully about their needs and less about the hype.

I see Scarlet as potentially meeting a wide range of photographic needs for me. 5k stills, 4k large format high quality motion+still extraction, 3k and 2k for utility video production that might otherwise be done with a small chip camera. In that profile it can potentially replace at least two other cameras, a dedicated stills camera and a prosumer level video camera. That makes the relatively high cost a bit less intimidating as one camera and kit can serve many functions. The price of Scarlet is what it currently takes to move to a completely raw workflow for both high quality stills and video, which is what I am most interested in.
Large screen cinema production is not on my radar, but experimental DSMC fine art composites plus industrial docs is. With the original 2/3" there would have been less compromise on frame rates, but much more compromise on potential stills quality.

 

[Ryan Koo]

From Philip's [excellent] article, "the chip is 3 and a half years old." The EPIC/SCARLET sensor was developed 3.5 years ago, really?

 

[Deanan]

From Philip's [excellent] article, "the chip is 3 and a half years old." The EPIC/SCARLET sensor was developed 3.5 years ago, really?

Not correct. MX sensor started shipping in 2010.
The sensor was designed for Epic but the rest of Epic took longer.

 

[Ryan Koo]

Thanks Deanan.

Is the sensor in Scarlet precisely identical to the one in EPIC? Thanks!

Graeme clarified that on another thread: yes. It's the ASICs that are (spec'd) different.