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To be a Director ...

A

a whitmer

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''If your goal is to become a film director, you must master screenwriting.” - Akira Kurosawa


My (free) eBook was written for you gals and guys, becasue this is so very true.


Follow with this ...

''Most directors have one masterpiece by which they are known. Kurosawa has at least eight or nine.'' – Francis Ford Coppola

So Akira was likely on to something.


I am a thorough and unapologetic reader for screenplays. A few recent threads with my feedback here ...

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=61666&page=5

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=61628&page=2

If you have a script you'd like to check over before committing time and money to producing, or are DPing on a project you have misgivings about, send it my way. I'll be happy to shred it for you :)

I use film samples and photos to drive home important visual and story points.


My book
https://alexmwhitmer.wordpress.com/zz-excerpt/




The second part started out something like this ...


No offense intended, but I know a some of the gearheads see screenplays as a necessary evil. Not all. Some.

I guess that came across the wrong way. The rest of what was there is sorta repeated in the following posts.

alex
 
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Sure, come on a camera forum and belittle the art and craft of production as being 'not your thing' and then tell everyone here how they should be learning from you and your book instead.
 
I specifically said being on a set wasn't my thing. I am very much into learning all I can about the art and craft of production regardless of the fact that I will likely never be behind a camera, pulling cable, and so on.

This short film ...



I have not read the script, but if I were to write the gorgeous opening scene, it would be something very simple like ...

INT. KITCHEN - DAY

(NAME) sets the table, eats. Methodic in his movements.


The magic of the art and craft of production is what made it soo beautiful. The lighting, the sound, the location of the camera, even the selection of the plate, silverwear and table. But the art and craft had a well-developed character to work from. This opening shot is 1000% in sync with who we later learn has some 'eccentricities' - all of which are masterfully supported in the art and craft of production, and the combined years of talents and experieince to make it work without flaw. And, this is seriously beautiful editing.

The opening shot took 8 seconds, the opening scene took 16 seconds. How many years of combined production experience did it take to nail those 8 and 16 seconds? 50?

at 0:47 - 0:48 we see him coming down the escalator. This two second shot speaks absolute volumes about this character moving against the grain. How strong that came across in the script I don't know. It sure as hell worked in the final film.

This is why I do encourage writers to come here and lurk - as I said. They need to know the possibilites - and limits - of the art and craft to become better writers - as I said. I also believe that filmmakers should be working to improve their grasp of writing to be better storytellers themselves. The script is just the beginning. The director and cinematographer and lighting dudes and dudettes are also storytellers, and will add their expertice to ensure the story comes out better than written.

Close on, wide shot, slow it down, speed it up. Jump cuts and so on all contribute to the impact of the story on screen.


The following is a nice example of jump cuts and solid storytelling as a collbortive effort. There are technical issues here (lighting) but this is the art and craft of filmmaking at work as a team. Worth a watch !!


https://vimeo.com/181775361
password: habit


I certainly never suggested that you could learn from me, or my book. I have offered my life-long project as a free resourse about screenwring for FILMMAKERS, not just screenwriters. I have had some sweet luck working directly with filmmakers over the years, and based much of my book on their experiences in turning scripts into films. They wish they could write themselves, or wish they knew more about writing so they could edit with more confidence, or choose a script to produce with more confidence. How do you know a good one from a bad one?

I put up sample chapters years ago (I used to have a different account here, but lost the password in a java meltdown. 2008 maybe?) I had VERY POSITIVE feedback then, including 'Where was this information when I was starting out?' That was encouraging, and I have since expanded the book greatly - as in tripled - with a shitload of supporting photos and other information.

I have my own personal reasons for not wanting to publish it, none of which matter here. The whole point is to offer a resourse. What one does with it is up to them. I make no claim that it will make anyone a better writer or a better filmmaker, or better at choosing material to shoot. It is based on feedabck, and what has worked for me to solve story issues, and making screenplays readable production documents.

I do believe and embrace the art and craft wholeheartedly, but I'll go ahead and delete the messages since they did offend after all.


cheers,

alex
 
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A camera forum is exactly the right place to talk about writing. It reminds DPs and directors about the multi-faceted nature of this craft. Movies are delivered as a package of sounds and images. That's it. The work that went into the final product is eye-opening.

I don't doubt that some people, even current members, think that this site is only about the cameras and nothing about lighting or writing or understanding actors. It's crap, albeit believable. We need more people like Alex.
 
I imagine most people on this forum have been studying and writing for years.

Certainly everyone I know in this game does. Just because this is a gear forum it is just one facet of what we do and what we talk about.

Not suggesting you delete anything. Just saying you have misjudged the people here.
 
Ben Scott said:
I imagine most people on this forum have been studying and writing for years.

Certainly everyone I know in this game does. Just because this is a gear forum it is just one facet of what we do and what we talk about.

Not suggesting you delete anything. Just saying you have misjudged the people here.
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I doubt that Alex has misjudged the people on this forum. Alex has been a valuable contributor and collaborator on this forum for many years (way beyond what is evident from the profile date.
 
To come on here and state you feel most people on here think of a screenplay as some sort of unnecessary evil? I do think it absolutely a misjudgement.

Alex, I'm sure you are a lovely guy and seriously, no need to delete what you wrote as it starts a dialogue and I'm not easy to offend. :)

I was just making the point that I think your statement does a lot of people on this forum a disservice. I imagine most of us wrote long before we had a camera, and I imagine most of us are or have been voracious readers of screenplays. And I imagine most of us have a ton of finished/half-finished scripts lying around.

It's a forum where storytellers talk about the technical aspect of their craft but that in no way correlates to having anything less than the utmost respect for a story and the mechanics of screenwriting.

At the same time, a lot of times when I speak to writers they simply cannot comprehend that they are not the author of the film and feel they should have more say in it. Despite, as you say in your case, production and being 'on set' being not their thing.

A screenplay is but one cog in the visual storytelling machine. It is not a bible, but rather a roadmap. 'For the good of the film' is more important than 'for the good of the screenplay'.
 
I have never suggested that, in my opinion, the screenplay is the bible. I am not friends with a lot writers (3 maybe) because so many do in fact believe they are the authors of the film, and that messin' with the script is like messin' with scripture. It is also why I refuse to join writer's groups, unions, clubs or whatever. Most just have the wrong big picture about what a collaboration means (and maybe why so many I have known remain unproduced after 15+ years of trying), and the sheer amount of talent and experience and gear needed to produce even a short film, let alone a feature, be they narrative or documentary.

After years in writer-specific forums, you might be surprised how many writers have little idea what happens to a script after it is picked up, and not all that many seem to care much anyways, so long as the check clears and they get a credit on IMDB - even if they didn't really earn it. Of course some know, or are kinda familiar with what goes on in development and production, but it's more just background noise - the necessary evil to have their script produced and released. A precious few really get it, and they understand how to write a script that is not just a solid story, but a production-friendly document. This is one thing I stress in the book.

I was one of those don't know, don't care writers until I started hanging around here. Here is where I learned to be a writer!


I know a lot of the folks here don't even make films. They do arial footage, architectural footage, nature footage, and fashion footage. They assemble reels, film cars and disasters. Happy stuff and human misery. Commercials, PSAs and music videos. I get that.


That said, my opening comment about screenplays as a necessary evil was proceeded by No Offence Intended ...

As mentioned, I wrote my book because of feedback I had from filmmakers (directors, producers, DPs) who were frustrated with the writing process. What books to read, and what classes to take? How much time do I need to invest to learn this? It really was the impetus for me to sit down and start writing, and I used what worked for me. Since I am autistic, it gets pretty interesting in part 2 - at least for me :). I do reference other books (none of which I have read cover to cover) and encourage these dudes and dudettes to read all they can, and then decide what to keep, and what to toss based on their own work habits - if they even know what their work habits are. Still a work in progress?

I am not suggesting that any one member here has not tried their hand at writing, or is also a writer for their own films and work - or even for others - and is quite comfortable and confident with the process. Some are, some are not. My book was intended for Filmmakers first, Screenwriters second that wanted a different perspective on wiritng. A more holistic approach, if you will. I have never embraced the 'without the screenplay, ya got nuthin' attitude. The same can be said for the camera, the actors (even if it's animation), somebody directing the story, adding a score, and so on. Yes, you can't start the process without a script, but you can't finish it without alllllll the rest of the diciplines working in sync to pull it off.

My original post here was to offer free service to read / critique scripts should someone want it or feel they need it before they commit to production. I said I'll be happy to shred it, because I can and do find every pimple. I believe I said I was thorough and unapologetic. I provided a few links to some current feedback on other writer / filmmaker's work, and if anyone here thought my eye could be of value, then give me a shout.


Maybe I came off as arrogant. Alex knows best. Not intended at all.


Anyways, life goes on. Be thankful for those little cabins far from humanity! I'm packing today!

a


PS thanx for the kind words
 
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As I said, I wasn't offended. I just thought it was a bit presumptuous/dismissive in regards to all the people on here who have dedicated years/decades to storytelling and who work with screenplays either as Writers/Directors/DPs all the time.

Clearly that wasn't your intent, in which case I may have come on strong. Let's all be lovely friends and move forward and discuss the actual topic :)
 
a whitmer said:
I know a lot of the folks here don't even make films. They do arial footage, architectural footage, nature footage, and fashion footage. They assemble reels, film cars and disasters. Happy stuff and human misery. Commercials, PSAs and music videos. I get that.
Click to expand...

What qualifies as a Film?

Why this anathema towards people who post aerial footage, architectural and nature footage, commercials, PSAs etc? Don't they tell a story through these?

On one of the above posts you talk about knowing the limitations of the craft. When someone is testing a portion of his or her craft by posting something you don't appear to like it.

Since the original post is essentially blank, I am not sure what is happening here.

I remember you had posted sometime back that you should have released your book some 5 yrs ago during the DSLR revolution. I didn't find any link to your book.

I find anything which is given free is not valued by people. Also, any post which can impute that the reader doesn't know is not well taken.
 
Sabyasachi Patra said:
What qualifies as a Film?

Why this anathema towards people who post aerial footage, architectural and nature footage, commercials, PSAs etc? Don't they tell a story through these?

On one of the above posts you talk about knowing the limitations of the craft. When someone is testing a portion of his or her craft by posting something you don't appear to like it.

Since the original post is essentially blank, I am not sure what is happening here.

I remember you had posted sometime back that you should have released your book some 5 yrs ago during the DSLR revolution. I didn't find any link to your book.

I find anything which is given free is not valued by people. Also, any post which can impute that the reader doesn't know is not well taken.
Click to expand...

Fair reply, and you are right, what does qualify as a film?

In my post, by film I meant in the traditional sense of a narrative story, or documentary. I should have clarified that. Commercials and PSAs do tell stories, and I very much appreciate how they can do it in 30 seconds to a few minutes. Many are just crap (as are many films), but a few really are entertainment AND message beautifully merged.

These two, for example ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect56804xfA&nohtml5=False

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM&nohtml5=False

And this combination music video / PSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7oqmikZDQ&nohtml5=False

And this - today's technologies - architectural drone work. Any of these shots can be integral to a larger story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLGzhDR7vcI&nohtml5=False


These all do tell stories, or parts of stories, and I certainly do not think any less of them than complete, well-made narrarive and documentary films. My point was, not all the folks here make narrative film, or maybe they want to someday when they are confident in their ability and purpose to move from say corporate image work, to finding (or writing) and producing their first narrative film. Maybe some have already tried it, made a beautiful film with the technical experience, gear and circle of friends and associates they have, but in the end decided it wasn't quite their comfort zone. There isn't any money in it, so back to commercial work to make a living.

Jus' saying over the years I have written for so many different kinds of folks, and so many different kinds of projects. Some were solid all around, some were damn good, some were disasters. It just works out that way. Of the 63 short films I have had the blessing to see produced, maybe 5 or 6 really stand out as both strong story AND strong production. I admit it, not all my stories translated into film as I imagined. They were weak, had story holes, whatever. Sometimes I just suck at it.


When did I ever say or appear to show this ...

On one of the above posts you talk about knowing the limitations of the craft. When someone is testing a portion of his or her craft by posting something you don't appear to like it.


First, I do encourage other writers to come here so they can know both the possibilities and the limitations of the art and craft behind production. I believe my original post also encouraged them to push those limits. Make the cinematographer figure out how to pull off a certain shot. Neither the writer nor the production should forever and always be too comfortable. That's called stagnation.


This ...

I remember you had posted sometime back that you should have released your book some 5 yrs ago during the DSLR revolution. I didn't find any link to your book.

It's here. Just click on HOW TO SPEAK SCRIPT

https://alexmwhitmer.wordpress.com/zz-excerpt/


This ...

I find anything which is given free is not valued by people.


I make no claim that it will be of any use to anyone at all. It has certainly been a learning experience for me, though, so at least someone got something out of it :) Look, I worked some long, hard years on this, and based it on feedback, my own experiences, and my own ideas. I am not wholly comfortable with where screenwritng is, and I do believe it needs to catch up with today's technologies. I could be wrong.

I thought that just maybe I could add something to the library of knowlede and opinion on the topic of screenwriting as it concerns filmmakers, the dudes and dudetted on set, not behind a typewriter. It isn't finished, either, and this is one reason I decided not to publish it. I want to keep working on it till I'm fricken' dead. Who knows, it may end up being 2,000 pages in 4 volumes. Technologies and the whole dynamics of film keep changing and growing, so there really isn't a way to call the book finished. Dang it, now I need to add a chapter on AI writes a screenplay!

I find MOST screenwriters are happy with the way things have been since what, the 50s? It's predicatable, formulaic, and now has all the software needed to do the formatting for you. Fuck that. I'm not happy with it, but it is my passion, and I want to see it electrified!

If the overall response to the book and my perspective is negative, I'll yank it and leave it on the shelf. But at leaast wait until I get part 2 of volume 1 up. It focuses on FINDING YOUR STORIES, and it is here where my autism really shines through!


This ...

Also, any post which can impute that the reader doesn't know is not well taken.

Where'd you get that from? I was chatting about screenplay reviews, and a few quotes from/about Akira Kurosawa.

''If your goal is to become a film director, you must master screenwriting.” - Akira Kurosawa

“Most directors have one masterpiece by which they are known. Kurosawa has at least eight or nine.” – Francis Ford Coppola


My point was, maybe Akira was on to something concerning screenwriting - and why I titled the thread 'To be a Director ...' But seriously, how many filmmakers have the time and commitment to master screenwriting? I am on my 12th year and have much yet to learn. How long would it take me to master the film camera if I started today? What's the average number of years you guys and gals have into your craft? Are you happy with where you are, or do you work to learn new things everyday?


I'm am thorough at reading / reviewiing screenplays. I know NOTHING about how to turn a camera on. Folks trade skills here, or impart tricks they have learned, or ask question on topics or gear or tricks / shortcuts, or best ways to resolve problems. I was just tossing in my hat on the one part of filmmaking I have some experience in - not that others don't, and I will gladly trade ideas with them.

It was just a fricken offer for christ's sake. I think it must have come across as 'I know Jack'.


The links I provided as samples of my screenplay reviews and writing preparation are here ...

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=61666&page=5

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=61628&page=2


Anyways, as I said, this - REDUSER - (and some DVXUSER) is where I really learned to write for film. I spent some years in screenwriting forums learning the basice, but after a short stint, things just repeated themselves, and the folks just regurgitated the same information over and over and over, then bitch and commiserate that they can't get there 120 page spec screenplay sold for a million bucks. Nothing new ever happens. No new ideas, no new perspectives. They argue on for days whether a character should be introduced as COP #1, or CHUBBY COP.

This is the current state of screenwritng. Woot.


But here, things are alive!

I would hope - and think and know - folks here that actually make films (or commercials, or music videos, PSAs, arial footage, or all of the above and more) have fresh and innovative ideas about writing that stay current with the technologies they use everyday.

I have found that filmmakers do like the information in my eBook, or above 50%, anyways. Writers really have nothing to say either way. Creatures of habit, what can ya say. Here is where you are right, if it's free, it's of little value. Buying it from a store somehow guarantees its usefulness.

Sure.

I could be way off base.


Anyways, if you don't like my free work, then toss it in the trash. It's that easy.


alex
 
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Apparently there was a significant edit on the first post.

Stephen
 
I put it back best as I remember.

The thread is (was) about reviewing screenplays before putting them into production, and my own take on how scripts fit into the whole, with some of the folks here who are not writers, or would like to be writers for their own works, or are already writers but would like a fresh pair of eyes to look over their scripts, they can give me a shout if they would like some feedback.


I also mentioned that being on a set was not my thing. I am a hermit by nature. I could learn from the experience, but it just isn't my thing. I prefer the abstract distance from it. That was in the OP.

And, far as I know, production working with material they aquired (as opposed to write themselves) would prefer the writer not be on set. Or so I have been told. True or not, I couldn't say.

Actually I do have a few nightmare stories to know it is SOMETIMES true (not me on set, just projects I was sadly dragged into).

The worst? Going on five years after production, the project that took me 4,000 hours to write has yet to be released, and I was never paid, nor ever will be. Ther is more to it. Lots more, but that should suffice.

As a writer who is NOT a filmmaker, I have no desire to be on a set.


I guess I put it in such a way that bristled.

My oops.


Onward ...

Seems there used to be more conversation about the creative side of filmmaking (and I include commercials, PSAs, etc., here). Christoffer Glans started this thread over a month ago ...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?147820-Adding-a-Filmmaking-topic

... but it was a luke-warm reception. Nope, wrong forum. Yes, good idea. And then it just died.

It used to be the right forum. Somehow we all lost interest?

a
 
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a whitmer said:
I'm am thorough at reading / reviewiing screenplays. I know NOTHING about how to turn a camera on. Folks trade skills here, or impart tricks they have learned, or ask question on topics or gear or tricks / shortcuts, or best ways to resolve problems. I was just tossing in my hat on the one part of filmmaking I have some experience in - not that others don't, and I will gladly trade ideas with them.
Click to expand...

This is the good stuff. Everything else got a bit confusing but stay on this message and you'll get a lot of takers :)


EDIT: Nick and others - The original OP rubbed me up the wrong way a little bit but I think it was well-intentioned and simply open to intepretation but in summary - writer wants to contribute to Reduser in the area where he feels he can. :)
 
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''If your goal is to become a film director, you must master screenwriting.” - Akira Kurosawa
Click to expand...

I guess I agree with this sentiment. I've had various stages with my own screenwriting from complete arrogance through to thinking I can't do it at all to realising maybe I'm not so bad after all. It's especially important when you are a zero budget filmmaker because I screenwriter can put whatever he likes into a screenplay but it's you that has to figure out how the hell you're going to find a rooftop to film on.
I've longed for good feedback on my work, it's hard to tell if something is going to be good until it's made and even then it's hard to tell until someone else has looked at it. I'll be writing a short one way or another this Friday night for the 48 hours so hopefully it'll turn out well. 11 years and I still haven't made a finalist.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
I've longed for good feedback on my work, it's hard to tell if something is going to be good until it's made and even then it's hard to tell until someone else has looked at it. I'll be writing a short one way or another this Friday night for the 48 hours so hopefully it'll turn out well. 11 years and I still haven't made a finalist.
Click to expand...

Send it my way, I'm happy to look it over for you.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
I guess I agree with this sentiment. I've had various stages with my own screenwriting from complete arrogance through to thinking I can't do it at all to realising maybe I'm not so bad after all. It's especially important when you are a zero budget filmmaker because I screenwriter can put whatever he likes into a screenplay but it's you that has to figure out how the hell you're going to find a rooftop to film on.
I've longed for good feedback on my work, it's hard to tell if something is going to be good until it's made and even then it's hard to tell until someone else has looked at it. I'll be writing a short one way or another this Friday night for the 48 hours so hopefully it'll turn out well. 11 years and I still haven't made a finalist.
Click to expand...

I think the Kurosawa quote should be expanded to read "If you want to be an Indie movie-maker you must first master screenwriting." ... or at least expand the term "director" to include all aspects of making a movie.

Reason for the need to understand and be a screenwriter is so you can create an affordable story. IME (in my estimation) normally a scriptwriter just spins a yarn and the cost of bells and whistles in the story is not their concern. They are seeking Wow! factor and give no thought to expense in shooting. Works for the big Hollywood type shoots with sizeable budget... not a cost a low/no budget shoot can afford.

So an Indie movie-maker needs to know some of the tenets of screenwriting.

The good news is we don't have to become professional screenwriters. That is, we don't have to know how to WRITE a script in proper form because we are not going to submit it for approval to the Nazi-format sticklers. We are our own client and if we understand what we mean and envision how it will play in edit, then we are screenwriters... screenwriters whose main concern is story.

THAT in my opinion is the connection between being both screenwriter and director/movie-maker.

EDIT: In the interest of clarity, I don't mean we have to write our own scripts. Just that we need to know how to take someone's story and mold it into something more affordable or screen-friendly when necessary.
 
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