Timnelapse setup question

[Ben Scott]

Hi all,

Looking at the Build 4 intervalometer for the first time today and not 100% sure how to set it properly, what with shutter options usually being related to the set fps but the intervalometer being a whole new menu. It would be really helpful if someone could tell me what settings to have (both in the interval menu and on the fps/shutter settings) so I can adjust and tweak from there.


Ok so with a 25fps timebase I'd like 10 seconds of material. 250 frames.

I'd like intervals of 15 seconds and I'd like 3 second exposures for each frame.

How does one set that up? What on Earth are the 'x2' settings on the shutter menu?

How does one add the noise reduction thingy and is it worth doing at source instead of in post?

Should I have a saved blackshade for this particular setting?


Also, since build 4, what's the deal with coming out of record and the red record dot going yellow for a few seconds? I've not really paid attention so yellow dots after recording are a big new thing in my life


Thanks in advance guys and girls. Much appreciated.

EDIT: And by timnelapse in the thread title, of course my stubby fingerts mean to type timelapse. Note to self: Must get a typing wand....

 

[TheBied]

Hi all,

Looking at the Build 4 intervalometer for the first time today and not 100% sure how to set it properly, what with shutter options usually being related to the set fps but the intervalometer being a whole new menu. It would be really helpful if someone could tell me what settings to have (both in the interval menu and on the fps/shutter settings) so I can adjust and tweak from there.


Ok so with a 25fps timebase I'd like 10 seconds of material. 250 frames.

I'd like intervals of 15 seconds and I'd like 3 second exposures for each frame.

How does one set that up? What on Earth are the 'x2' settings on the shutter menu?

How does one add the noise reduction thingy and is it worth doing at source instead of in post?

Should I have a saved blackshade for this particular setting?

Thanks in advance guys and girls. Much appreciated.

Set your project rate to 25 FPS
From the FPS quick menu, set you frame-rate to 1.333 FPS
From the Exposure/Shutter spinner choose a 360 deg shutter OR the longest exposure time in the spinner list (setting to 1 second will guarantee 360 in this case)

(I'd recommend doing a black shade at these settings first)

Now go to the time-lapse setup menu: Settings->Recording->(Mode)

Recording Mode: Internal Timelapse Timer
Limit Recording to 250 frames
Record 1 frames/pulse, Interval 15 seconds

Now go to the Frame-Processing setup menu: Settings->Recording->(Frame Processing)

Frame Processing Mode: Frame Summing
Frames to Process: 4

This will setup the camera to internally combine 4 750 ms exposures into a single 3 second exposure (hence the x4 you now see in your exposure settings)

In the frame summing mode you do not get the benefit of temporal averaging, you will need to post process for any noise reduction.

Also, since build 4, what's the deal with coming out of record and the red record dot going yellow for a few seconds? I've not really paid attention so yellow dots after recording are a big new thing in my life

The yellow dot indicates the recording is finalizing. This time will be reduced in the next release.

 

[Ben Scott]

You are a lovely, helpful and no doubt very handsome man (or possibly lady)! Thanks ever so much

 

[dennys bisogno]

You are a lovely, helpful and no doubt very handsome man (or possibly lady)! Thanks ever so much

I have heard many complements to tech support, but this one goes to my top-20 :yesnod:

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

From the FPS quick menu, set you frame-rate to 1.333 FPS

I understand everything else you said, just not this part. Why set the frame rate to 1.333 per second? You're telling the camera elsewhere to take one exposure every 15 seconds (and each time it does, to take 4 separate .75 second exposures and then add the measured values together) so I'm not really sure where the 1.333 number comes from, or even why you'd need to do that.

Also, is there a difference between summing 4 .75 second exposures and summing 3 1 second exposures? 6 .5 second exposures? The only way to get an exposure time longer than 1 second is to use the frame summing?

 

[Ben Scott]

I have heard many complements to tech support, but this one goes to my top-20 :yesnod:

:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[TheBied]

I understand everything else you said, just not this part. Why set the frame rate to 1.333 per second? You're telling the camera elsewhere to take one exposure every 15 seconds (and each time it does, to take 4 separate .75 second exposures and then add the measured values together) so I'm not really sure where the 1.333 number comes from, or even why you'd need to do that.

Also, is there a difference between summing 4 .75 second exposures and summing 3 1 second exposures? 6 .5 second exposures? The only way to get an exposure time longer than 1 second is to use the frame summing?

Yes, the current maximum sensor exposure time is 1 second. You can extend this exposure in camera by using frame-processing.

The frame processing features can only be used in multiples of 2.

As an example, I suggested using the longest actual sensor exposure along with the processing. For the most continuous exposure using frame-processing you want to make sure the sensor is constantly exposing.

So in this case the 'valid' settings would be:

4 .75 second exposures, 1.33 fps
8 .375 second exposures, 2.667 fps
16 0.1875 second exposures, 5.333 fps

The shorter the exposure, the less likely you will need to black shade the camera.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Ok, NOW I see how you got the FPS number. But why do you have to set it? What happens if you tell it to do 4 .75 second exposures, but at 2 FPS? Or 1 FPS? If you don't match up the time correctly, does it spread out the frames (so there are "chunks" of time that aren't being recorded?) or overlap the frames (so that there are "chunks" of time that are recorded by multiple exposures)? I doubt the last one is possible given all else I know about how the camera and sensor is working...

 

[Sergio Perez]

Excellent thread and replies. This should be a sticky!

 

[TheBied]

Ok, NOW I see how you got the FPS number. But why do you have to set it? What happens if you tell it to do 4 .75 second exposures, but at 2 FPS? Or 1 FPS? If you don't match up the time correctly, does it spread out the frames (so there are "chunks" of time that aren't being recorded?) or overlap the frames (so that there are "chunks" of time that are recorded by multiple exposures)? I doubt the last one is possible given all else I know about how the camera and sensor is working...

Let's take the case where we set the actual sensor FPS to 1.33 FPS with a .75 exposure with frame processing enabled and set to 4.

When you enable frame-processing, the actual sensor frame-rate is still 1.33 FPS. But, since 4 frames are being combined into 1 the overall recorded frame-rate is reduced to 1 frame every 3 seconds. The .75 second exposure allows you to expose for the duration of those 3 seconds. You CAN specify shorter exposure time, but it's important to realize that the exposures in this case will not be conjoined. The camera will prevent you from overlapping the bursts of exposures, which is not possible.

 

[Kwan Khan]

NIce
Thanks

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Let's take the case where we set the actual sensor FPS to 1.33 FPS with a .75 exposure with frame processing enabled and set to 4.

When you enable frame-processing, the actual sensor frame-rate is still 1.33 FPS. But, since 4 frames are being combined into 1 the overall recorded frame-rate is reduced to 1 frame every 3 seconds. The .75 second exposure allows you to expose for the duration of those 3 seconds. You CAN specify shorter exposure time, but it's important to realize that the exposures in this case will not be conjoined. The camera will prevent you from overlapping the bursts of exposures, which is not possible.

One (hopefully) final question, and then I think I understand it. If you set the frame-rate too short (say, to 1FPS in the example above), since the camera will "prevent you from overlapping the bursts of exposures", will it snap the recording FPS to the first available working speed (in this case 1.33)? I know the camera adjusts certain parameters that way already (and makes the font Yellow when it's done so, so as to indicate that a change was forced based on other parameters set).

 

[TheBied]

One (hopefully) final question, and then I think I understand it. If you set the frame-rate too short (say, to 1FPS in the example above), since the camera will "prevent you from overlapping the bursts of exposures", will it snap the recording FPS to the first available working speed (in this case 1.33)? I know the camera adjusts certain parameters that way already (and makes the font Yellow when it's done so, so as to indicate that a change was forced based on other parameters set).

The sensor FPS will not snap to the next available (it would go to 1 fps in this case), but the exposure time will automatically cap out at is maximum duration (and turn yellow). Also, in the recording dialog, the interval setting will be automatically capped if it is set out of range.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

RED- Please issue a timelapse calculator for RED.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

This thread has saved me HOURS of testing and puzzlement. Huge thanks to The Bied for answering my rather nitpicky questions.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

RED- Please issue a timelapse calculator for RED.

+ 1 on this. Love a video tut on best TL practices if you guys ever get the chance.

 

[Ben Scott]

I'm totally gonna print out TheBied's post, along with the settings for my most used timelapse settings/timings and then stick it in the Red case. .

 

[James Burgess]

"RED- Please issue a timelapse calculator for RED."

YES, PLEASE

 

[Russ Fill]

Id like to see a basic manual entry of how to use and what pitfalls there might be.
Whats the diff between summing and averaging? It sounds like the averaging might have less noise to deal with in post but not as crisp of a image? Am I getting this right???
A little help understanding the difference.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Id like to see a basic manual entry of how to use and what pitfalls there might be.
Whats the diff between summing and averaging? It sounds like the averaging might have less noise to deal with in post but not as crisp of a image? Am I getting this right???
A little help understanding the difference.

Every pixel that is recorded is done as a digital value; a 16-bit number between 0 and 65536. 0 is completely black, and 65536 is completely saturated. You may, from certain programs, be used to 8 or 10 bit numbers; that is, values out of 256 and 1024 respectively. If you think of the brightness of each pixel as just a number, then Summing and Averaging gets much easier to understand.

Summing is useful for a dark image. You take multiple exposures, and the value of each individual pixel is added to that of the same pixel from the other exposures. So, a dark sky at night can be brightened up to near daylight levels, for example. However, if you do this too-extreme, then each individual frame that you are summing could have some pretty nasty noise that you are then compounding together. This can either make the noise lower, or in funky coincidental circumstances, compound anomalies.

Averaging takes the value of each pixel, adds it to that of the same individual pixel in all other exposures, and then divides that value by the amount of exposures. If you are shooting at proper exposure in terms of light levels (say, a forest in daylight with lens at F5.6 showing a properly exposed histogram) this allows you to "drag" your shutter. The camera is incapable of taking single exposures of longer than 1 second. But with averaging, it's a clever way to get around that, and now you can take up to 16-second individual frames. So, you get the motion-blur of a dragged shutter, but without the light-level compounding of frame summing.