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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Thoughts on Tilta's new Gravity Gimbal vs Ronin (and a bit on the new Armor Man 2)

What is the pin out on the armorman cable coming off the battery plate? Looks like it would be a 1B or 2B size Lemo deal like on Red One or Epic. Curious for custom installs and what all needs rewiring if it comes to that.
 
Im curious, you are comparing Ronin adn Gremsy, but not Movi, why?
Everyone i spoke to complain about Ronin, not moving perfectly smooth etc.
I got a Movi M5, and are constantly looking for a better replacement, but havent found anything so far, and im sceptic to all those chinese knockoffs popping up everywhere, they are damn good at glossy renderings and presentations, ill give them that, but when it comes to "guarantees" then i dont trust them.
Dont know how many times ive been screwed by this people and their guarantees about how much better it is than everything else. Yea, no secret im sceptic ;)
 
Mark Burten said:
What is the pin out on the armorman cable coming off the battery plate? Looks like it would be a 1B or 2B size Lemo deal like on Red One or Epic. Curious for custom installs and what all needs rewiring if it comes to that.
Click to expand...

We use Anton Bauer / Gold Mount batteries, and had Tilta install a gold mount plate for us on the back of our Armor Man 2 (I guess V mount is more standard). We run a 180cm DTAP from the battery to power our camera. Running the cable is lovely as there are cable clips that are built along the most ergonomic path. 160cm would be long enough for most users, but we wanted some extra length for more flexibility and also for use on our Acecore Neo UAV.

Chris Dahl said:
Im curious, you are comparing Ronin adn Gremsy, but not Movi, why?
Everyone i spoke to complain about Ronin, not moving perfectly smooth etc.
I got a Movi M5, and are constantly looking for a better replacement, but havent found anything so far, and im sceptic to all those chinese knockoffs popping up everywhere, they are damn good at glossy renderings and presentations, ill give them that, but when it comes to "guarantees" then i dont trust them.
Dont know how many times ive been screwed by this people and their guarantees about how much better it is than everything else. Yea, no secret im sceptic ;)
Click to expand...

The price range is the bottom line. In the end, we went with the Gremsy H16 and absolutely love it. If you know how to balance a 3-axis gimbal, then balancing the H16 will be a breeze. Tuning and fine tuning are way more precise and less cumbersome with the Gremsy software compared with AlexMOS, too. The H16 is light, and had held up extremely well for the last 6 weeks as we've been putting it through its paces both handheld/in the armor man 2 as well as lots of UAV flying with heavy, longer payloads. For the price, I just can't imagine why I'd spring for the M15, considering the top flight performance of the H16 for about 4K USD
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
We use Anton Bauer / Gold Mount batteries, and had Tilta install a gold mount plate for us on the back of our Armor Man 2 (I guess V mount is more standard). We run a 180cm DTAP from the battery to power our camera. Running the cable is lovely as there are cable clips that are built along the most ergonomic path. 160cm would be long enough for most users, but we wanted some extra length for more flexibility and also for use on our Acecore Neo UAV.



The price range is the bottom line. In the end, we went with the Gremsy H16 and absolutely love it. If you know how to balance a 3-axis gimbal, then balancing the H16 will be a breeze. Tuning and fine tuning are way more precise and less cumbersome with the Gremsy software compared with AlexMOS, too. The H16 is light, and had held up extremely well for the last 6 weeks as we've been putting it through its paces both handheld/in the armor man 2 as well as lots of UAV flying with heavy, longer payloads. For the price, I just can't imagine why I'd spring for the M15, considering the top flight performance of the H16 for about 4K USD
Click to expand...

Balancing has never been any problems, also handheld every gimbal performs, its when you put them to the extreme youll start to see the differences.
 
brian mcclatchy said:
jesus x that looks fucking ridiculous - are you kidding me, who wants to walk around with a rig like that?
Click to expand...

HA! It's funny, after operating gimbals almost non-stop for a few months I remember thinking "what if my arms were stronger...almost robotic....LIKE STEADICAM ARMS" and then I saw the armorman. It's.....something for sure. Probably a great tool for a lot of people, but not sure I'm the customer they're going after.

And I had previously thought an EasyRig with Flowcine Serene was a sight...
 
brian mcclatchy said:
jesus x that looks fucking ridiculous - are you kidding me, who wants to walk around with a rig like that?
Click to expand...

Probably someone who would otherwise have to hold the heavy gimbal and camera rig in both hands for an extended period of time. Try holding a Ronin with a Red mounted on it for longer than five minutes st once and your forearms will be burning.
 
Chris Dahl said:
Balancing has never been any problems, also handheld every gimbal performs, its when you put them to the extreme youll start to see the differences.
Click to expand...

I would say that gimbals made by MoVi and DJI perform as you described, but there are a ton of others out there that are terrible performers, get knocked out of alignment easily, are a pain to balance using dozens of hex keys, etc. You're using an M5, right? I'm sure it's a great gimbal. The only limitation with it is probably its ability to accommodate heavier payloads (including heavier camera, cine lens, wireless follow focus, maybe a matte box with pola/ND filters, etc) and also payloads with taller or longer form factors. That's what the M15 is for, eh? But then, the Gravity can fly an F55 with a longer, heavier lens, plus all those accessories, whereas a Ronin just can't, or at least not as "natively." And you're absolutely right about the more challenging moves separating the best gimbals from the rest. What I can say is that we've done some pretty aggressive UAV work with the H16, a heavy payload and flying long lenses like Zeiss 85mm CP2 and it performs as we want it to perform.
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
I would say that gimbals made by MoVi and DJI perform as you described, but there are a ton of others out there that are terrible performers, get knocked out of alignment easily, are a pain to balance using dozens of hex keys, etc. You're using an M5, right? I'm sure it's a great gimbal. The only limitation with it is probably its ability to accommodate heavier payloads (including heavier camera, cine lens, wireless follow focus, maybe a matte box with pola/ND filters, etc) and also payloads with taller or longer form factors. That's what the M15 is for, eh? But then, the Gravity can fly an F55 with a longer, heavier lens, plus all those accessories, whereas a Ronin just can't, or at least not as "natively." And you're absolutely right about the more challenging moves separating the best gimbals from the rest. What I can say is that we've done some pretty aggressive UAV work with the H16, a heavy payload and flying long lenses like Zeiss 85mm CP2 and it performs as we want it to perform.
Click to expand...

My struggle is when shooting from full size helicopters, the forces there are ten times more extreme than a drone, and the roll axis is virtually impossible to keep horizontally when banking or accell, you simply need a rig connected to a flight controller with a good gps unit for constant feed about the gimbals attitude and whereabouts.
Spoke to Freefly yesterday, and they have no plans incorporating such systems into their Movis.
Im curious though, how well a Gremsy with horizon killer works in a heli, compared to a Movi, havent found anyone yet that could tell me...
 
I wonder if a Kenyon KS8 gryro attached to the bottom of an M15 or similar heavy lifter would help in the helicopter. Any Key Grips out there care to chime in? :)

Chris Dahl said:
My struggle is when shooting from full size helicopters, the forces there are ten times more extreme than a drone, and the roll axis is virtually impossible to keep horizontally when banking or accell, you simply need a rig connected to a flight controller with a good gps unit for constant feed about the gimbals attitude and whereabouts.
Spoke to Freefly yesterday, and they have no plans incorporating such systems into their Movis.
Im curious though, how well a Gremsy with horizon killer works in a heli, compared to a Movi, havent found anyone yet that could tell me...
Click to expand...
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
I wonder if a Kenyon KS8 gryro attached to the bottom of an M15 or similar heavy lifter would help in the helicopter. Any Key Grips out there care to chime in? :)
Click to expand...

with one word, it doesnt work at all. It will add so much inertal force to the M15 that it will be like the M15 has to handle a camera of 30 -40 kgr, and you will just kill the motors.

the KS8 itself weights somuch that the M15 wouldnt handle together with the camera , and impossible to balance on the roll cage.

if you are to shoot out of a heli door , use a full kenyon gyro rig, it willbe much easier to work with and you will pull some big lenses too.

regards
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
with one word, it doesnt work at all. It will add so much inertal force to the M15 that it will be like the M15 has to handle a camera of 30 -40 kgr, and you will just kill the motors.

if you are to shoot out of a heli door , use a full kenyon gyro rig, it willbe much easier to work with and you will pull some big lenses too.

regards
Click to expand...

+1000
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
I would say that gimbals made by MoVi and DJI perform as you described, but there are a ton of others out there that are terrible performers, get knocked out of alignment easily, are a pain to balance using dozens of hex keys, etc. You're using an M5, right? I'm sure it's a great gimbal. The only limitation with it is probably its ability to accommodate heavier payloads (including heavier camera, cine lens, wireless follow focus, maybe a matte box with pola/ND filters, etc) and also payloads with taller or longer form factors. That's what the M15 is for, eh? But then, the Gravity can fly an F55 with a longer, heavier lens, plus all those accessories, whereas a Ronin just can't, or at least not as "natively." And you're absolutely right about the more challenging moves separating the best gimbals from the rest. What I can say is that we've done some pretty aggressive UAV work with the H16, a heavy payload and flying long lenses like Zeiss 85mm CP2 and it performs as we want it to perform.
Click to expand...

Curious as to why you chose the Gremsy H16 over the Gravity? I've an invoice from Tilta for a Gravity Package. The prices amazing but I haven't clicked "send" because while great on paper, no one has given me 1st hand experience insights to it. I still have a Ronin and while I like it for many set ups, it has issues with F55's or other larger set ups. Everything on paper of the Tilta just screams buy, but I'm hesitant. Any insights?
 
Ned Wilson said:
Curious as to why you chose the Gremsy H16 over the Gravity? I've an invoice from Tilta for a Gravity Package. The prices amazing but I haven't clicked "send" because while great on paper, no one has given me 1st hand experience insights to it. I still have a Ronin and while I like it for many set ups, it has issues with F55's or other larger set ups. Everything on paper of the Tilta just screams buy, but I'm hesitant. Any insights?
Click to expand...

I opted for the H16 over the Gravity for three reasons - 1) as you noted, it's still "untested" and "unproven" in the wild 2) I needed a solid heavy lifter which could fly longer setups for the current campaign of short docs I've been making in The Netherlands and Israel since the beginning of May 3) our crew also recently bought the Acecore Neo UAV, which came with an awesome quick release system for the H16 and handles our payload perfectly.

I have to say the H16 is a lightweight beast that has not let us down, even after pushing it with some aggressive flying. Handheld is tough with our heavy setup, but then that would be true with any gimbal (thus our Armor Man 2, which also turned out to be a high performance tool, thankfully).

I'm still looking at the Gravity and may pick one up down the line, but only after it's been proven in the wild more. The reason for that, even though I have the H16 already, is because I suspect the Gravity will do even better with the longer setups; I want to throw a real matte box with barn doors, a 4x4 pola and an ND in some situations. The barn doors may be pushing it, of course. We shall see
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
I opted for the H16 over the Gravity for three reasons - 1) as you noted, it's still "untested" and "unproven" in the wild 2) I needed a solid heavy lifter which could fly longer setups for the current campaign of short docs I've been making in The Netherlands and Israel since the beginning of May 3) our crew also recently bought the Acecore Neo UAV, which came with an awesome quick release system for the H16 and handles our payload perfectly.

I have to say the H16 is a lightweight beast that has not let us down, even after pushing it with some aggressive flying. Handheld is tough with our heavy setup, but then that would be true with any gimbal (thus our Armor Man 2, which also turned out to be a high performance tool, thankfully).

I'm still looking at the Gravity and may pick one up down the line, but only after it's been proven in the wild more. The reason for that, even though I have the H16 already, is because I suspect the Gravity will do even better with the longer setups; I want to throw a real matte box with barn doors, a 4x4 pola and an ND in some situations. The barn doors may be pushing it, of course. We shall see
Click to expand...

Thanks. I just may take the plunge and report back. How is the power set up for the Gremsy? Do you have to use Lipo alarms on the batts for low voltage? They drive me nuts as I've ruined more than a few sound takes with them.
 
Ned Wilson said:
Thanks. I just may take the plunge and report back. How is the power set up for the Gremsy? Do you have to use Lipo alarms on the batts for low voltage? They drive me nuts as I've ruined more than a few sound takes with them.
Click to expand...

We don't use Lipo alarms. We get a voltage readout on our Futaba controller and always switch batts before the voltage gets to 13.2v. Discharging beyond that can damage the battery's ability to charge fully and also has a detrimental effect on its lifespan.

When doing handheld work with the joystick on the handles, we keep an eye on the indicator light before takes. If it's blinking red, the battery is getting low and needs to be swapped out. That said, our habit in general is to swap out batts after about 30 minutes just to stay safe and have yet to get the "blinking red light."
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
We don't use Lipo alarms. We get a voltage readout on our Futaba controller and always switch batts before the voltage gets to 13.2v. Discharging beyond that can damage the battery's ability to charge fully and also has a detrimental effect on its lifespan.

When doing handheld work with the joystick on the handles, we keep an eye on the indicator light before takes. If it's blinking red, the battery is getting low and needs to be swapped out. That said, our habit in general is to swap out batts after about 30 minutes just to stay safe and have yet to get the "blinking red light."
Click to expand...

What about for camera batts such as their large capacity batts for powering Dragon? The specs look great in terms of power to weight.
 
Ned Wilson said:
What about for camera batts such as their large capacity batts for powering Dragon? The specs look great in terms of power to weight.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're a bit overzealous in swapping our 4s batts. The larger 4s batts will power a Dragon for an hour to an hour and a half. That said, we have that nice battery plate on the back of the Armor Man 2, and usually throw an Anton Bauer D90 and run a lemo from the d-tap
 
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