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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Thoughts on 8K Epic w vs. 5K Epic Gemini?

AndreasOberg said:
A: If high frame rate, low noise or smaller files is very important = Gemini

B: If higher image quality, future proof and being able to crop is more important = Helium

We shot wildlife so the Helium was a great choice. We can crop and get extremely sharp images that are much more future proof.
/Andreas
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I own both and this is spot on

steve
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
In what sense would one characterize helium as "higher image quality"? Anything besides resolution?
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Because the pixel pitch on Helium is 3.6 microns and Gemini is 6 microns, it's really about density or PPI within the active window. There are applications in sports, wildlife, etc that can benefit from having more photo sites in the same sensor real estate - assuming you have enough light to achieve a reasonable S/N ratio. IAC, the phrase "higher image quality" is too broad and subjective to mean much without further qualification.

Cheers - #19
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
In what sense would one characterize helium as "higher image quality"? Anything besides resolution?
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Get the same shot with 5k bayer(GEMINI) and 8k bayer(Helium) and then debayer them both to 4k and you will see the difference.
 
What if delivery is hd? I really like Gemini in terms of im a guy who underexposed constantly in natural light cuz I don't have lights or want to overcrank or have slow lenses or whatever it was and I've tried to get better at avoiding this but it's still an issue often enough to fight.. so Gemini hits a lot of important stuff for me if I can rationalize it? I think 5k makes sense for me but I keep hearing all the 8k people naysaying.. im not sure what upgrade to do honestly without more tests out and available
 
I tell you what, I am working on my 4th wedding shooting them side by side and the Gemini doesn't hold up on the higher compressions like the epic-w does, like the 10:1 stuff that I run this for doc, the scarlet actually looks better to my eye but I am just in the beginning stages of figure out exactly what settings work best for me with this camera, but it will live at 6:10 for anything over a couple minutes

steve
 
I'd theorize the different sized sensor cut needs different compressions because of the different resolutions. 10:1 on helium bit rate wise might be similar to 6:1 on the lower resolution sensor? Not sure on scarlet w vs Gemini though... I really am interested in Gemini vs helium though and look forward to the tests
 
Brian Merlen said:
I'd theorize the different sized sensor cut needs different compressions because of the different resolutions. 10:1 on helium bit rate wise might be similar to 6:1 on the lower resolution sensor? Not sure on scarlet w vs Gemini though... I really am interested in Gemini vs helium though and look forward to the tests
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I am doing some stuff right now actually, seems gem sensor is much more sensitive

steve
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Because the pixel pitch on Helium is 3.6 microns and Gemini is 6 microns, it's really about density or PPI within the active window. There are applications in sports, wildlife, etc that can benefit from having more photo sites in the same sensor real estate - assuming you have enough light to achieve a reasonable S/N ratio. IAC, the phrase "higher image quality" is too broad and subjective to mean much without further qualification.

Cheers - #19
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What you're describing is resolution, so Helium is only better in its resolution then? I agree there are some specialty applications that would value resolution nearly above all else but those are not the norm as most delivery is in 2k or 4k and most applications don't need 200% crops.
 
Steve DiMaggio said:
I tell you what, I am working on my 4th wedding shooting them side by side and the Gemini doesn't hold up on the higher compressions like the epic-w does, like the 10:1 stuff that I run this for doc, the scarlet actually looks better to my eye but I am just in the beginning stages of figure out exactly what settings work best for me with this camera, but it will live at 6:10 for anything over a couple minutes

steve
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Do you mean Scarlet looks better to your eyes in higher compression ratio when compared to Gemini? or do you mean images out of Scarlet looks better than images out of Gemini in general?
 
Jason Lee said:
Do you mean Scarlet looks better to your eyes in higher compression ratio when compared to Gemini? or do you mean images out of Scarlet looks better than images out of Gemini in general?
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higher compressions, I like the general look of the gemini way better than the scarlet, maybe just from shooting my ew for so long

steve
 
Steve, what are you seeing as workable compression ratios for the gemini? 5K gemini 6:1 is roughly comparable to 8k EW 10:1?
 
Scarlet w is dragon based
 
Drew Thomas said:
Steve, what are you seeing as workable compression ratios for the gemini? 5K gemini 6:1 is roughly comparable to 8k EW 10:1?
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that sounds about right, I will def have better info next week, I just haven't shot enough with it, I have like 1000 hours on my Epic-W, I am starting another thread with a comparison video right now, just uploading it to youtube

steve
 
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