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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

This is what the Red resale market has become?

Paul Harb

Paul Harb

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Im in shock at the lowball offers on an almost brand new Epic M Dragon with 18.6 hours. Are people really selling and taking a 60% loss on their initial investments? Crazy....Ive owned lots of gear over the years...and I understand the speed of depreciation on electronics but this is the fastest depreciation Ive ever witnessed if this is what people are selling Dragons for. Sad.
 
I might be wrong, but isn't a part of the reason why the Epic M looses value quickly is because of the warranty that it looses once it is Transfered to the new owner? As in, the warranty has a lot of value when you buy it the first time, but as soon the next buyer gets the camera and transfers it, those 4 years of warranty become 90 days?

I know the Epic M is assembled by hand, but perhaps that isn't as much of a selling point when the warranty just flies away?

Also, I'm guilty of low balling, and sorry.
 
I think some people are just looking to get a good deal. I do think there are plenty of people out there willing to pay good used priced on gear.
 
Also I just saw your posting, it seems that many of the items you are selling in the package are discontinued (the 5.0 Touch, the 128GB and 512GB RedMags) and at least the 512GB Mag is quite old since they have not been sold in over a year. This could be the reason why people are sending you lower offers.
 
To be fair, Epic-M is niche/handmade, and apparently (obviously?) people are not willing to buy one for more than "Used Epic-X Dragon" prices (which is $24k new, instead of $30k). In other words, Used Epic-X Dragon brain for $20k seems reasonable (which is ~66% of the Epic-M Dragon's new price of $30k).

Tack on to that an additional $500 transfer fee, shipping to and from RED, the fact that there is no warranty, and that new cameras get released every 6months, and it actually makes selling a used camera -- no matter how "new" -- for 85% retail seem kind of unreasonable... If it's not an obvious bargain or great deal, then people may as well save up the extra $$$ and buy brand new.
 
Red accessories with their general forward/backward compatibility tend to hold used value better than the brains themselves. Also, although its less convenient you'll always realise more value selling individual components rather than a package. The warranty effect on value is probably different in parts of the world such as the USA where manufacturer warranty is more at the manufacturer's discretion rather than being an extended promise over and above inherent consumer rights. (For example, if you sell a product in the UK you'd better be ready to stand by it in a proportionate manner for as much as six years).
 
Yep, M and X are equal now that they are both available.


Niko Pueringer said:
There's no real draw to the M premium when the regular X's are readily available and perform exactly the same.
Click to expand...


I frankly shocked at how high used brians are. For only a 20% savings (less after the transfer fee) you are better off going new for the warranty IMO.
 
I agree everyone is probably right about the M vs X reasons....makes sense.

That said, In comparison to other camera systems for whatever reason the Dragon has already depreciated at a higher rate. I have theories why but I'll let others come up with their own speculations. Maybe my perception is wrong. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter that much, just wasn't expecting such a drop so fast.
 
Remember that Epic M customers have had priority in the past, the value of that priority exceeds the 5k premium. For this reason an M is a better camera to own if the price is the same on the used market :D
 
Even though the M is essentially the same internally, the lesser weight makes it a huge favorite for gimbals, so should still demand a premium over an X. Personally, I'd love to have an M in both color and black and white flavors.
 
Mark Phelan said:
Even though the M is essentially the same internally, the lesser weight makes it a huge favorite for gimbals, so should still demand a premium over an X. Personally, I'd love to have an M in both color and black and white flavors.
Click to expand...

They are the same weight, aren't they? At least according to REDs website. Are you confusing the M with the Carbon Fiber Dragon?
 
Mark Phelan said:
Even though the M is essentially the same internally, the lesser weight makes it a huge favorite for gimbals, so should still demand a premium over an X. Personally, I'd love to have an M in both color and black and white flavors.
Click to expand...

They dont differ in weight as far as I know. M are available before X... For me that was quite a treat, Or Epic M was paid off long before the X was available, Also when upgrading the priority in the upgrade que made it so that we had the dragon long before most and the camera was pretty much shipped around the planet due to the high demand so for those reasons I could only say that it's been very beneficial to have an M. It's possible that red will give the M owners more of these benefits in the future, but that we do not know yet. So yes the extra cost for an M is not clear at the moment so I guess that is why people value it just as an X.

But who knows, when the Mostro comes the extra cost might turn out to be a really good investment. :)
 
All very good good points and the reasons I payed the premium for an M.

Björn Benckert said:
They dont differ in weight as far as I know. M are available before X... For me that was quite a treat, Or Epic M was paid off long before the X was available, Also when upgrading the priority in the upgrade que made it so that we had the dragon long before most and the camera was pretty much shipped around the planet due to the high demand so for those reasons I could only say that it's been very beneficial to have an M. It's possible that red will give the M owners more of these benefits in the future, but that we do not know yet. So yes the extra cost for an M is not clear at the moment so I guess that is why people value it just as an X.

But who knows, when the Mostro comes the extra cost might turn out to be a really good investment. :)
Click to expand...
 
I also think Red's policy of losing a warranty someone spent an extra $2500 is the worst. Not sure why more people aren't unhappy with Red about this policy. I can't think of any other company with a policy like this.
 
Björn Benckert said:
They dont differ in weight as far as I know. M are available before X... For me that was quite a treat, Or Epic M was paid off long before the X was available, Also when upgrading the priority in the upgrade que made it so that we had the dragon long before most and the camera was pretty much shipped around the planet due to the high demand so for those reasons I could only say that it's been very beneficial to have an M. It's possible that red will give the M owners more of these benefits in the future, but that we do not know yet. So yes the extra cost for an M is not clear at the moment so I guess that is why people value it just as an X.

But who knows, when the Mostro comes the extra cost might turn out to be a really good investment. :)
Click to expand...

You are correct, I was thinking the Carbon Fiber model. That's what I'd like in both flavors.
 
Paul Harb said:
I also think Red's policy of losing a warranty someone spent an extra $2500 is the worst. Not sure why more people aren't unhappy with Red about this policy. I can't think of any other company with a policy like this.
Click to expand...

I concur... I mean, let's face it, $500 (even though it's down from the $750 I had to pay) is still an exorbitant transfer fee cost for what appears to be nothing more than changing names in a database and letting the camera do an auto-diagnostic (one that, if failed, will garner RED hundreds/thousands more in revenue for the repair.)

It doesn't even stay with the owner, either.... So if I buy a new Epic-Dragon, sell my Scarlet+REDarmour outright, the buyer I sell to doesn't get the RED armour and my new camera won't get the remaining RED armour either...
 
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