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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Jarred Land said:
My team has worked the last 6 months with no sleep to the point of breakdowns and tremendous strain on their families trying to catch up with the backorder situation that we got ourselves into just to do right by our customers. We are taking a massive, massive financial hit with this Epic-W discount to those that have been waiting for way too long as Scarlet-W and free sensors to the Carbon weapon guys waiting too. Just because we feel bad about making you wait.

And guess what.. pretty much every other company also makes you wait. BM had an unexpected year and a half on their last camera, Arri's SXT is still an unexpected year and a half wait, list goes on. We are offering shit no other company would even think about. And some of you still bitch and complain.

So anyone that thinks that we are mistreating you and not doing our best to help you all.. please, please, please sell your cameras and go buy something else.
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I've been astonished by your generosity in the past few months... though it wasn't until you announced the spate of upgrade options that I learned about the upgrades you've offered in the past, since I've only been around here since last December.

And I thought just offering loaners was going above and beyond...

When you said you were going to do something nice for people who'd been waiting so long, honestly I was expecting something along the lines of an extra SSD or something, which while not a huge discount, would have been pretty nice... and instead you offered a huge discount.
 
Keep in mind, Red does not owe anyone these upgrade paths. They are a courtesy extended to us users to give us the latest technology and in this case to help get cameras in the hands of those who have been waiting. We may not see such great deals again if people continue to complain.
 
Patrick Kendall said:
+1 Nick is a GREAT dude. loves Red cameras. Loves Reduser. Loves his moded contax lenses. He's written some great articles about red. (google it) He works hard and loves what he does... he's no mere mortal here.. honest opinions should never be silenced. no need to send flowers.
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Can you please tell me what great things came out of his comment? His post just slashed the upgrade path for all Epic Dragon owners going to Epic-W Worldwide!!

His 'great' comment just f***ed it up for many smaller thankful owner/operators planning to upgrade and now back to square one!

I wrote thankful comments, I bought flowers to show my gratitude towards a great company and I had great expectations on the 11th. Nick pretty much ruined it all for me... Thanks Nick!
 
I think anything resembling negative feelings are not coming from the deals offered now, but the surprise nature of the closure of the MG upgrade path. Most people who, like myself, were planning on using that path and hadn't executed yet were holding off due to money being tight. The Epic-W is the better deal, but ultimately represents a bigger investment in absolute term as have to buy accessories, so it threw us for a loop. Our cameras represent the biggest investment in our lives and the key to our livelihood so it's hard to have plans change so quickly. I didn't take it as a criticism of Red, just misplaced venting. Maybe clear deadlines or last calls will prevent most of the thread clogging complaints and criticisms, I hope this post isn't counted among them.

For those who are even politely complaining about scarlet -w you're crazy. If you think your camera's value is more than red is offering sell it and reserve a scarlet - w, the deal is open to everyone.
 
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Jarred Land said:
My team has worked the last 6 months with no sleep to the point of breakdowns and tremendous strain on their families trying to catch up with the backorder situation that we got ourselves into just to do right by our customers. We are taking a massive, massive financial hit with this Epic-W discount to those that have been waiting for way too long as Scarlet-W and free sensors to the Carbon weapon guys waiting too. Just because we feel bad about making you wait.
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I fucking appreciate this so much. A lot of us do, many that I know that don't even have reduser accounts or post but still check the forum everyday like I do. It's ridiculous the backlash that comes up from an opportunity that's basically free money. You guys royally saved my ass with the loaner program this year, and are throwing yet another great opportunity in my face. You better believe that I'm going to take it and try to convince even more projects to go Red. I have nothing but positive things to say at this point. Fuck man.

Mini-rant over.
 
Adam Welch said:
Keep in mind, Red does not owe anyone these upgrade paths. They are a courtesy extended to us users to give us the latest technology and in this case to help get cameras in the hands of those who have been waiting. We may not see such great deals again if people continue to complain.
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I even think it will be a wonder if they keep upgrading at all.
Try put yourself in the shoes of Jarred, if I was him, I would close this forum and throw the whole "obsolescence obsolete" right out the window.
That will give so much easy of mind. Doing work, not micromanaging everyonce toughts on this forum.
Sometimes I get the feeling that he's babysitting all of us, and if one gets a cookie eveyone wants one.

We are not here on a daycare. We are all grownup's that are working with expensive top of the line professional cinema camera's.

If you only have the money to buy 1 camera, dont come here complain that you can't buy two.
Because that's what a upgrade is. Buying a 2nd camera.

So what I want to say is. RED is doing something no other company have done ever and they are doing it for almost 10 years.
We all need to pay a little more respect for that and if we don't. I won't look twice if RED chooses to sail a diffrent way in the future.
 
Jarred Land said:
Not Epic-W, those that are waiting on 8K VV are going to Weapon Heliums ( if they want )
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Oh got it thats what I originally had thought. I'm definitely going weapon Helium. Think it will look beautiful with my Summicrons.
 
Jarred Land said:
Thanks Julian. And its not just Nick... Nick stated that he is representing and speaking for a large group of Dragon owners that have all gotten together to all bitch about how unfair we are being.

Which.. if is the case.. we can't win no matter what we do so we might as well just got back to, you know, just like what every other company does, and release a new camera and just let people buy it. No upgrades, no trade ins, no dealing with all this drama bullshit.

I will personally select some customers to be generous too.. you know, the ones that actually deserve it.
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gosh, this is such a bummer. i was so excited for my choices that i called my bombsquad rep last week and paid my woven deposit in full, to make sure i could make the right decision for my tiny owner/operator world. i wanted to do the right thing, so i was totally open to paying the amount to go to woven, then paying extra to go to helium if i had to. these options were all so generous and open ended, accounting for all RED owners and new customers. i didn't feel comfortable using the s-w angle, bc it kinda felt like cheating. i would never want to cheat a brand and group of people who i feel look out for my best interest as a user. i've been lucky enough to meet jarred, grahme, dan duran, sean and nate, and many of the other amazing people that give this brand the magic that it has. in a former life, i used oakley goggles as a motocross rider. i proudly displayed a factory pilot sticker on my bike, that i was told came straight from the top. at NAB last year, i was able to meet jim, and thank him for all he made for me back then, and what he does for us today. we are all lucky we have this brand, this forum, and the opportunity to communicate directly with its generals... but i think its time to stop complaining and start embracing.
 
As Pat Riley said its the disease of ME. That being said Nick does seem like a great guy and I hope everyone else doesn't kick him too hard.
 
Epic dragon is still a dope camera and you can always reserve a scarlet -w if you still want to upgrade :)

for $5,000 more keep your epic dragon! Still not bad at all.
 
Again, I'll say this one last time - I apologize to all.

Those comments were mine and mine only.

I love RED, am a big champion of their cameras and community, and ABSOLUTELY understand how hard RED works to offer upgrades - there is no one else like them!

I ask humbly that all other Epic Dragon owners be offered a path to Epic-W...while I lose the right to mine.

Only seems fair.

We have an OPEN FORUM here, a place of UNIQUE dialogue, which is ALSO what makes RED special - great things can happen here (when you ask), and sometimes also unfortunate things (I probably should have reconsidered my post).

So I'm going to sign off for a while, there's not much else I can do (besides send Jarred a special gift!).


Over and out.
 
Jarred,
i was really grateful for the opportunity to upgrade our Epic-dragon to a weapon helium. it's always the same thing the only voices heard are the one complaining.
We've been on the red boat since the early red one and only missed that last epic to weapon upgrade because of a bad financial timing, our company grew with your cameras thanks to those upgrade offers, they mean the world to us so please focus on those grateful and ignore the rest!
 
Robert Gustafsson said:
Can you please tell me what great things came out of his comment? His post just slashed the upgrade path for all Epic Dragon owners going to Epic-W Worldwide!!

His 'great' comment just f***ed it up for many smaller thankful owner/operators planning to upgrade and now back to square one!

I wrote thankful comments, I bought flowers to show my gratitude towards a great company and I had great expectations on the 11th. Nick pretty much ruined it all for me... Thanks Nick!
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Didn't ruin it for you Robert.. Ill still take care of you. And you guys don't need to show signs of appreciation and all blow kisses.. you choosing RED is all we need and are grateful for.

It is the ones that think they are getting fucked because their free discount isn't free enough that can go fuck themselves.

And That's not directed to Nick. Nick is a great guy.. I love that dude. If it was just his opinion I would totally be fine with it just as many others have.

It is the " I talked to a bunch of people and we all collectively feel left out " which pushed me over the edge..

That takes it from one persons opinion to a whole group of people that are unhappy...

which completely ruined my day. Not my day. My month. Actually... maybe my year.
 
I'm shocked and saddened by this latest turn of events, however, I completely understand it.

Once the news hit the internet, I could see so many people coming in and ruining it for the rest of us, which is what happened. A EXTREMELY GENEROUS offer turned into an entitlement that was bitched about.

I've been critical of Red in the past, when I think they deserved it. And, I've praised them most other times. But this whole company has come so far over the last few years to become a world class operation. I know there are still hickups, and one of those hickups created this program. Other companies, would just say, there's too much demand, deal with it. Instead Jarred opened up a program to not only address the hickup, but to all camera owners who for whatever reason didn't or couldn't follow the traditional upgrade path.

I do not blame Jarred for being frustrated. He mentioned earlier in the thread, that if RED offered bags of free gold at the top of a mountain, people would complain about the hike, and it happened. SMH towards the complainers.
 
Jarred Land said:
Didn't ruin it for you Robert.. Ill still take care of you. And you guys don't need to show signs of appreciation and all blow kisses.. you choosing RED is all we need and are grateful for.

It is the ones that think they are getting fucked because their free discount isn't free enough that can go fuck themselves.

And That's not directed to Nick. Nick is a great guy.. I love that dude. If it was just his opinion I would totally be fine with it just as many others have.

It is the " I talked to a bunch of people and we all collectively feel left out " which pushed me over the edge..

That takes it from one persons opinion to a whole group of people that are unhappy...

which completely ruined my day. Not my day. My month. Actually... maybe my year.
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Please man restore your offer, I have benefited from upgrades from Scarlet-X up to Epic-Dragon ... and I loved them.
Thanks,
 
Jarred you cant please everybody it is impossible.You always offered multiple offers.As a dragon owner i had Weapon path and didnt upgrade until now and recently you offered Helium path.Scarlet people didnt had this one.Thats why i find Dragon owners very special on this.
 
Jarred Land said:
Didn't ruin it for you Robert.. Ill still take care of you. And you guys don't need to show signs of appreciation and all blow kisses.. you choosing RED is all we need and are grateful for.

It is the ones that think they are getting fucked because their free discount isn't free enough that can go fuck themselves.

And That's not directed to Nick. Nick is a great guy.. I love that dude. If it was just his opinion I would totally be fine with it just as many others have.

It is the " I talked to a bunch of people and we all collectively feel left out " which pushed me over the edge..

That takes it from one persons opinion to a whole group of people that are unhappy...

which completely ruined my day. Not my day. My month. Actually... maybe my year.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Jarred! I totally get your frustration, no matter what you do, how great it is, there will always be a few people complaining and that really sucks.
 
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