The Update Thread

[Julian Banos]

Jarred,

That is only Nicks point of view.

But I disagree with Nick for these reasons,

1. The upgrade program is the best deal in town, but it is not mandatory.

2. Epic-W and Helium is basically what I dreamed of a Dragon Monochrome into colour. If you cannot appreciate this, maybe you cannot afford it.

3. If you cannot afford the upgrade, then do it later once you have more time to work your Epic Dragons. You do not need to rush, everyone is at their own camera cycle and its fine.

I made the math to pay for a 50,000 camera with a Helium sensor before this thread began stating prices. And it was 50,000 to get a Helium Brain.

Now we get a super great deal to go for Epic-W at 15K.

This is a no brainer decision and a big thanks to RED for being crazy. But it is not mandatory and you have a bit of time to make up your mind Nick.

I really appreciate what RED is doing for us.

Respectfully,

Julian

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred,

That is only Nicks point of view.

But I disagree for these reasons,

1. The upgrade program is the best deal in town, but it is not mandatory.

2. Epic-W and Helium is basically what I dreamed of a Dragon Monochrome into colour. If you cannot appreciate this, maybe you cannot afford it.

3. If you cannot afford the upgrade, then do it later once you have more time to work your Epic Dragons. You do not need to rush, everyone is at their own camera cycle and its fine.

I made the math to pay for a 50,000 camera with a Helium sensor before this thread began stating prices. And it was 50,000 to get a Helium Brain.

Now we get a super great deal to go for Epic-W at 15K.

This is a no.brainer decision and a big thanks to RED for being crazy. But it is not mandatory and you have a bit of time to make up your mind.

Respectfully,

Julian

Thanks Julian. And its not just Nick... Nick stated that he is representing and speaking for a large group of Dragon owners that have all gotten together to all bitch about how unfair we are being.

Which.. if is the case.. we can't win no matter what we do so we might as well just got back to, you know, just like what every other company does, and release a new camera and just let people buy it. No upgrades, no trade ins, no dealing with all this drama bullshit.

I will personally select some customers to be generous too.. you know, the ones that actually deserve it.

 

[Robert Gustafsson]

Andy, I am not discounting RED's generosity. In fact I'm celebrating it. I'm thrilled there will be so many new customers jumping into DSMC2.

However, having spoken to numerous heavily invested Epic Dragon owners in NYC, I know we all share the same fear, that we're being left behind, and that our past (large) investments are worth less to RED than the promise of new customers.

There's no need to bring religion into this my friend.

WTF?!! Come on man! "Left behind"?! Are you serious? We just got a new upgrade path that you just shredded to pieces!

Be thankful instead!

 

[Darius Lyles]

I for one appreciate the upgrade trade in program thats why I have wanted to be a RED owner since 2008 and only this year have I been blessed enough to buy in. I love the love and lets spread it around, this should be a happy time for us image makers!

 

[David Kellermann]

Jarred,

That is only Nicks point of view.

But I disagree with Nick for these reasons,

1. The upgrade program is the best deal in town, but it is not mandatory.

2. Epic-W and Helium is basically what I dreamed of a Dragon Monochrome into colour. If you cannot appreciate this, maybe you cannot afford it.

3. If you cannot afford the upgrade, then do it later once you have more time to work your Epic Dragons. You do not need to rush, everyone is at their own camera cycle and its fine.

I made the math to pay for a 50,000 camera with a Helium sensor before this thread began stating prices. And it was 50,000 to get a Helium Brain.

Now we get a super great deal to go for Epic-W at 15K.

This is a no brainer decision and a big thanks to RED for being crazy. But it is not mandatory and you have a bit of time to make up your mind Nick.

I really appreciate what RED is doing for us.

Respectfully,

Julian

As Julian wrote, RED's upgrade programs are amazing and yes, it's impossible to make it absolutely "fair" to everyone. But we RED users shouldn't complain and instead be happy about the many options and great deals that we're getting. I honestly don't know any other company, especially of the scale of RED, that cares that much about their customers, especially the ones that hang out nearly every day on reduser.net.

The first RED that I owned was a Scarlet-X, now a Scarlet-Dragon and we planned to upgrade both our Scarlet-W deposit and our current camera to Epic-W. Well, now we're going to have a Scarlet-Dragon and a Epic-W which is also quite a nice setup

 

[Sergio Perez]

Dragon owners had one hell of a deal going to Weapon MG. It worked out to $9500 for an upgrade and you got all the accessories you needed.

But yet you still complain.

It's not our fault if you did not take that offer.

You skipped that for whatever reason.

But yet you still complain.

And then I give you guys another chance... to go straight to Epic-W, which is giving you guys a bonus round to upgrade that you shouldn't of had. Thats unfair to everyone that did upgrade to Weapon last year.

So you can't blame us "for leaving Dragon owners behind" as that's not fair.

But yet you still complain.

All you dragon owners that are gathering together with your burning pitch forks saying we are being unfair.. You might as well start burning down our building because I can't be any more generous to you and the fact that you are bitching about being given another opportunity....... kinda pisses me off.

Well not kinda.. Super pisses me off.

I think we are going to modify this the other way..

New plan. Dragon owners need to upgrade to Weapon first, like you should need to, like all the other loyal guys that played by the rules did.

So no more direct Dragon to Epic-W or Weapon Helium. Which is a shame because you guys were going to get something a bit special in all this.. but o well.

So There you go Nick.. you get what you wanted.. for us to be fair.

Jarred... This ... Sucks.

I don't understand. No one was saying they didnt feel grateful for the upgrade. Its not like Nick was being disrespectful, talking trash like some entitled users that post here.

Probably I sound like one too.

But I believe most of the users here just desperately want to stay on the Red train. Its an important step in their lives, their finances.

Its not fair for a general group of people to get punished by one or two voices .

If there's someone that has been supporting and pushing Red over here where I live the past 4 years and a haf, it has been me.
Never complained. What I said wqs that it didnt feel right to me that if I ordered a S-W like many did in the last few days, For an extra 4500 i would keep my Epic Dragon. Heck just look at the Epic Dragons that suddenly appeared on the marketplace.But I still wanted to send it in. It was the right thing to do. It was the "right" path. Now we don't have any path. And all I personally wanted was a smoother or possible way to Helium.

I know I'll be trashed, Nick too, and what can we say but sorry to other Dragon owners? Its a real sad day for me. All the best for Red and the rest of the red community. Dragon will be my home for the next few years.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Dragon owners had one hell of a deal going to Weapon MG. It worked out to $9500 for an upgrade and you got all the accessories you needed.

But yet you still complain.

It's not our fault if you did not take that offer.

You skipped that for whatever reason.

But yet you still complain.

And then I give you guys another chance... to go straight to Epic-W, which is giving you guys a bonus round to upgrade that you shouldn't of had. Thats unfair to everyone that did upgrade to Weapon last year.

So you can't blame us "for leaving Dragon owners behind" as that's not fair.

But yet you still complain.

All you dragon owners that are gathering together with your burning pitch forks saying we are being unfair.. You might as well start burning down our building because I can't be any more generous to you and the fact that you are bitching about being given another opportunity....... kinda pisses me off.

Well not kinda.. Super pisses me off.

I think we are going to modify this the other way..

New plan. Dragon owners need to upgrade to Weapon first, like you should need to, like all the other loyal guys that played by the rules did.

So no more direct Dragon to Epic-W or Weapon Helium. Which is a shame because you guys were going to get something a bit special in all this.. but o well.

So There you go Nick.. you get what you wanted.. for us to be fair.

Jarred, I did not mean to offend. And I'm sorry. Truly.

Even worse, I'd hate to see other Epic Dragon owners (of which there are hundreds I've never spoken to!) suffer for what I, and only I, said.

If I need to be punished, and locked into Weapon Upgrades, then so be it, I can accept that.

Because that's what makes REDUSER, and RED ownership, unique...you've created a forum and community where we can TALK and communicate like this.

That's awesome.

However, I'd hate to see everyone else suffer for what I said!

Nick better be hitting up 1-800-flowers ASAFP

Yup, I'm calling them now! :smiley:

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Thanks Julian. And its not just Nick... Nick stated that he is representing and speaking for a large group of Dragon owners that have all gotten together to all bitch about how unfair we are being.

Which.. if is the case.. we can't win no matter what we do so we might as well just got back to, you know, just like what every other company does, and release a new camera and just let people buy it. No upgrades, no trade ins, no dealing with all this drama bullshit.

I will personally select some customers to be generous too.. you know, the ones that actually deserve it.

How come Nick can represent us all? Most of us already told him and argued he always had best deal until now even after 11 Oct he still gonna get best deal.
You guys already won our hearts since beginning and we just dont find RED Digital Cinema as a company, its a family.So i just dont care what every other company does.

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred... This ... Sucks.

I don't understand. No one was saying they didnt feel grateful for the upgrade. Its not like Nick was being disrespectful, talking trash like some entitled users that post here.

Probably I sound like one too.

But I believe most of the users here just desperately want to stay on the Red train. Its an important step in their lives, their finances.

Its not fair for a general group of people to get punished by one or two voices .

If there's someone that has been supporting and pushing Red over here where I live the past 4 years and a haf, it has been me.
Never complained. What I said wqs that it didnt feel right to me that if I ordered a S-W like many did in the last few days, For an extra 4500 i would keep my Epic Dragon. Heck just look at the Epic Dragons that suddenly appeared on the marketplace.But I still wanted to send it in. It was the right thing to do. It was the "right" path. Now we don't have any path. And all I personally wanted was a smoother or possible way to Helium.

I know I'll be trashed, Nick too, and what can we say but sorry to other Dragon owners? Its a real sad day for me. All the best for Red and the rest of the red community. Dragon will be my home for the next few years.

Sergio no love lost my friend... i've never read anything you have posted to be disrespectful. I don't get mad for people having an opinion. I will take care of you.

 

[Louis Maddalena]

Thanks Julian. And its not just Nick... Nick stated that he is representing and speaking for a large group of Dragon owners that have all gotten together to all bitch about how unfair we are being.

Which.. if is the case.. we can't win no matter what we do so we might as well just got back to, you know, just like what every other company does, and release a new camera and just let people buy it. No upgrades, no trade ins, no dealing with all this drama bullshit.

I will personally select some customers to be generous too.. you know, the ones that actually deserve it.

I wouldn't blame you if you turned the company into a model like Arri where you want a new camera? You buy a new camera. You want to do proes at the same time? Buy a $1500 license for that even though its already built into your camera. How about DNX HD? Boom, another $1500. You guys would make a killing.

I'd be disappointed, I took the ride from a long time ago and now I have the best camera that RED makes (except for the storm trooper which I missed by 20 minutes, and the 8K VV, which has too long of a line), which is something that when RED started I couldn't even dream of. I had a Canon XL2 and I was a senior in high school and in that short amount of time I climbed to where I am today because of your generosity. ... but I certainly wouldn't be mad.

I hope you reconsider because as somebody who has been in NYC for a long time, I don't know anybody really complaining about the upgrade program, I know a few people who were excited, a few Weapon owners who were confused not knowing where their cameras would stand in the line up, but certainly nobody upset.

I know Nick, he's an awesome guy to work with, I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you.

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred, I did not mean to offend. And I'm sorry. Truly.

Even worse, I'd hate to see other Epic Dragon owners (of which there are hundreds I've never spoken to!) suffer for what I, and only I, said.

Thats not what you said. Let me quote you.

However, having spoken to numerous heavily invested Epic Dragon owners in NYC, I know we all share the same fear, that we're being left behind, and that our past (large) investments are worth less to RED than the promise of new customers.

So its not just your opinion.. if it was, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You brought everyone else into this... I don't know if you were just trying to make a point or you truly are out there canvasing every Dragon owner you know, but it has the same affect... You clearly said that you all feel like you are being left behind, which was one hell of a wake up call for me. Why the fuck even bother...

 

[Tom Dowler]

So There you go Nick.. you get what you wanted.. for us to be fair.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Sergio no love lost my friend... i've never read anything you have posted to be disrespectful. I don't get mad for people having an opinion. I will take care of you.

Was really, really depressed until I read these words thanks Jarred !

 

[Nick Morrison]

You brought everyone else into this... I don't know if you were just trying to make a point or you truly are out there canvasing every Dragon owner you know, but it has the same affect... You clearly said that you all feel like you are being left behind, which was one hell of a wake up call for me. Why the fuck even bother...

Jarred, I spoke to a couple of other Epic Dragon owners who aren't on Reduser, just to give them a heads up.

That's all the owners in "my world".

I apologize if I made that seem bigger than it is. Truly.

I do not pretend to speak for "everyone".

Again - I accept my fate. Weapon Upgrades only.

But, as someone that loves the community here, I ask simply that you spare everyone else.

THANKS!!

best

 

[Tom Dowler]

I really don't understand why people can't see this clearly:

the baseline you should be starting from is what every other camera company does. You buy a camera. They release a new one. If you want the new one, you buy it.

That Red give **ANY** upgrade options is incredible, unique and speaks to how well Red takes care of the family.

I completely, 100% understand Jarred's frustration here.

smh at some people in this thread.

 

[Todd G. Peterson]

First, totally support Jarred on this. Nick's post pissed me off as well. These upgrades are about getting the latest tech (which looks amazing) into more people's hands (democratizing cameras for indie filmmakers like me and other) while also generously offering upgrade paths to ALL Red owners (even my R1MX), and especially offering a way to make up for people on deposit (like me) who havent had a camera for a long time. This is a generous and smart move to address supply chain issues and get us shooting amazing stuff sooner. Stop complaining and get your shit together guys. Have you ever seen any other company this customer focused?

On a side note, does the E-W come with a mount? Will it be compatible with existing mounts?

 

[bart cortright]

I really don't understand why people can't see this clearly:

the baseline you should be starting from is what every other camera company does. You buy a camera. They release a new one. If you want the new one, you buy it.

That Red give **ANY** upgrade options is incredible, unique and speaks to how well Red takes care of the family.

I completely, 100% understand Jarred's frustration here.

smh at some people in this thread.

agreed... and all the upgrade people keep forgetting that they currently have an amazing camera to shoot on while a lot of us have been waiting 6-9 months for a camera. Jarred made this amazing discount to try to get everyone more cameras quickly. He even let people abuse it and yet people are still talking about what is fair and not fair.

 

[DJ Meyer]

I just stopped by Home Depot and the a**holes won't let me upgrade my lawnmower.

The new ones have higher blade spin rates! Less gas consumption! Finer cutting!

Old one is garbage. Can't even look at it anymore.

 

[Akin A]

I've said this a while back, but if it was called "Trade-in" instead of "Upgrade," I think there would be less drama.

"Trade-in" sounds like it's based on suppy/demand and a seller can't really get mad if the buyer doesn't want to buy back a used product at a certain price or at all. The word "unfair" probably wouldn't get used as much either.

"Upgrade" is so generic, it sounds that it could lead to people thinking they have "the right" to do it. Like upgrading to the next version of Windows.

 

[Robert Gustafsson]

Maybe we all should visit 1-800-flowers.com once again to show our gratitude and prove to Jarred that there's still some love in here...