The Update Thread

[Sergio Perez]

I'm going to upgrade.

I'm awaiting for Jarred's talked about financing plan, hoping some sort of miracle makes it available to me over here and I can go Weapon Helium, but even if its not, I will upgrade to the Epic W.

I think the true successor to the Epic MX, or to the Epic Dragon, is the Weapon Helium.

Indeed, the Epic and Epic Dragon allowed at least 60p on their maximum resolutions. This allowed for versatility in their maximum resolution- maximum resolution broadcast compliant frame rate for certain type of shows, and expressive slow motion.

Its, however, properly priced. 8K 50p and 60p gives you immediate access to the clients demanding today 8K content. I think the Helium, if you have the right contacts, pays for itself in a very short time- and will stay current for at least 4-to 6 years. But, again, you have to pay for it.

The Epic W, However, is a step up from the Epic Dragon. And a step up most of us can afford. True, we lose some field of view when shooting at our currently available frame rates. But they are there, at the same resolutions.

And we gain the possibility of shooting 8K at 30/25/24 fps. This is amazing. This will make a difference in our images. This will allow for probably very expressive motion+stills.

True, one could take the "loophole" , get a scarlet w order in, pay 20k for the Epic W, and keep the Epic Dragon with only an added fee of 5K.

Its probably what makes more sense. But it doesn't sound right.

I'm going to send in my Epic Dragon.

What I hope is that the Epic W or Helium keeps me in the train, one I am in since the MX. I also hope in the future, if I'm on the Epic W train, that I will get a chance to go to the Helium spec. Could take one or two years without financing, but as someone that chose the Red Epic as the best tool to express my own "cinematic language", I hope that for those that couldn't jump for the top get a chance of future program to upgrade to it at a reasonable price. Not now, but a few years down the line!

Bring on the future!

 

[Antony Newman]

Gorgeous!

Yes - I'd love to be able to get one of these

AJ

I only made a small batch and completely sold out of them before could even put them on the website... Will hopefully make some more next month.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Bring on the future!

FKN A!!

 

[Jose Espinosa]

I'm super excited to upgrade to Epic-W from my Epic Dragon (that I really love). Jarred, are those financing options available in the U.S. only or will there be some european partnerships going on as well?

Thanks!

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, I don't post that often but am on the forum daily. Thanks for those charts and so many others! They have been extremely helpful - seems like you have been crazy busy lately and still contribute over the forum & constantly have updated charts. Thank you!

Cheers and thanks for that DJ. I'm tuned in while being just a few hours away from the North Pole, but I'll be back in LA on the 11th after about 3 months of filming abroad. All of this effects me and my focus on 8K for motion picture production. And I've been drooling over the 8K VV footage I've been capturing from the helicopter.

It's actually truly incredible that RED has entered into the 8K arena before several of the other manufacturers have even hammered the nails into their prototypes. Plus there are two 8K sensor options with the main consideration being format size and the variations between the tech itself. Pretty interesting stuff.

It's fun for me watching some of the thread activity as some of the same conversations regarding 5K and 6K are now happening with 8K. Things like sensor size, data rates/footprint, and workstation talk. We've been through much of this before with Mysterium-X and Dragon. It's not exactly new, but there's obviously people who are new to the system and/or used to working specific ways. I can sort of help with a lot of that because I'm a lens guy and motion picture guy.

In regards to the latest motion picture technology from RED, a lot of concepts that people perceive as walls are actually doorways to a new room they never new existed. They just need to figure out how to find the knob and turn.

Once this production wraps I have a couple useful things I want to work on now that there's a host of new tech coming down the pipe. There's nothing to be scared about with 8K. Technology advances quickly these days. Right now it's clear who's making the biggest leaps and bounds into bleeding edge motion picture cameras. It's an insanely exciting time for people who care about their image quality and the tools they use to do that.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Word

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I only made a small batch and completely sold out of them before could even put them on the website... Will hopefully make some more next month.

Yeah no shit!

I didn't got a chance to say "want" and they where gone... Can't have the all metal one, it gets too cold for my soft ends in some of the extreme locations I shoot in...

But this Wooden counterpart... PIECE of ART!!


If you find one under the table some where let me know... I'll pick it up on Friday...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Much smaller, almost half the size. And it works at USB 3.1 speeds and includes a "normal" USB 3.1 to USB 3.0 cable as well to work with your older hardware.

Can't wait for this little one too...

Sold all my Mag readers, only kept a G-Tech one for now, since this little one is going to be the all winner & fastest RED Mini Mag Reader in the market... (To Be) this is what I will roll to for al my 8K needs... Been so beautifully Compact... Priceless...

 

[Josh Becker]

I think this may have already been touched on, but I was curious since I have friends in this position:

If a Scarlet Dragon owner already has the Scarlet-W discount package ordered but they want to upgrade to Epic-W (paying the full $20k like those of us with no RED camera who have Scarlet-W preorders) and keep their Scarlet-D, are they able to do that? I'd imagine their preorder could be treated like any other Scarlet-W preorder, they just lose the $2500 discount.

 

[Jim Flores]

Sorry, I'm going to do this in multiple replies because I don't exactly know how to combing multiple quotes in one reply.

Welcome Jim! I don't exactly know about still being able to get a MG right now, possibly if you preordered it before they took it off their site?? If you want to just go with Epic-W tho, then it seems like your cheapest best route would be to switch your MG order and deposit over to a S-W deposit now, then place your upgrade to Epic-W after the 11th, this S-W discount opportunity is once in a blue moon. To be crystal clear I would reach out to a Red rep to be sure tho.

Brody, good point. I wasn't really thinking about going that direction since I think ultimately I'd prefer the 6K Dragon as I think that would be a better fit. The Epic-W does sound appealing though as well.

 

[Jim Flores]

Welcome to the family, Jim!

I'm a new RED owner myself... but there are so many awesome people in the fold who have years of experience working with the RED ecosystem everyday! I've definitely spent hours perusing these forums here... there is so much good information. I have learned so much just from searching, reading, and asking questions. Such an awesome family!

Thanks Spencer! That's super helpful. Thanks for your kind response. Definitely helps me feel welcome.

 

[Jim Flores]

Welcome Jim!

Thanks Matthew! Good to be on here.

 

[Jim Flores]

Welcome to the family Jim. you are in an unique position so just let your rep know which way you would like to go as soon as you can. your rep is prepared to make that process easy for you either way.

Thanks for the reply Jarred! Good to be on here. Thanks for all your input and for engaging with the community. I will contact my rep and see if they can help me work through my options. Thx!

 

[Scot Yount]

I think this may have already been touched on, but I was curious since I have friends in this position:

If a Scarlet Dragon owner already has the Scarlet-W discount package ordered but they want to upgrade to Epic-W (paying the full $20k like those of us with no RED camera who have Scarlet-W preorders) and keep their Scarlet-D, are they able to do that? I'd imagine their preorder could be treated like any other Scarlet-W preorder, they just lose the $2500 discount.

I think Jarred answered this earlier and said you have to trade the camera in. I think.

Dude you need to trade in your camera.

 

[Josh Becker]

I think Jarred answered this earlier and said you have to trade the camera in. I think.

Yeah, but I feel like that would apply to guys who didn't have a Scarlet-W order placed. Like if you just came off the street on Oct 12th and wanted to upgrade to Epic-W from Scarlet Dragon, they'd give you the $10k off for trading in your camera.

But trading in the camera, when they've waited just as long as you or I, for the same discount seems really off. Not only has he invested far more in RED gear than me, but he has to trade all that in to get the same price I'm getting?

 

[Scot Yount]

Yeah, but I feel like that would apply to guys who didn't have a Scarlet-W order placed. Like if you just came off the street on Oct 12th and wanted to upgrade to Epic-W from Scarlet Dragon, they'd give you the $10k off for trading in your camera.

But trading in the camera, when they've waited just as long as you or I, for the same discount seems really off. Not only has he invested far more in RED gear than me, but he has to trade all that in to get the same price I'm getting?

Hit the little blue arrow button next to Jarred's name in my post to see the full post he was responding to. Maybe it answers the question? Ha. So many possible scenarios!

 

[Josh Becker]

Hit the little blue arrow button next to Jarred's name in my post to see the full post he was responding to. Maybe it answers the question? Ha. So many possible scenarios!

Ah yeah, the guy who commented didn't say anything about already having a Scarlet-W (S-D discount package) preordered, it sounded like he was asking about a standard upgrade from Scarlet Dragon... He said he had already sold his camera but it was still registered in his account, so he was hoping he'd be eligible for the upgrade price.

 

[Med D]

That is the make-or-break question for me. I'm an Epic MX owner, if the W cost is the rumored $17k-$19k -and- a camera trade-in, the offer is not compelling. If we keep our old cams then the deal works for me.

I think Jarred answered this earlier and said you have to trade the camera in. I think.

 

[Josh Becker]

That is the make-or-break question for me. I'm an Epic MX owner, if the W cost is the rumored $17k-$19k -and- a camera trade-in, the offer is not compelling. If we keep our old cams then the deal works for me.

Might want to squeak a Scarlet-W order in before Oct 10th then

You have to remember that multiple things are happening here: Scarlet-W guys have waited a super long time, so they are offering the generous discount. But the Epic-W is also a $30k camera. So after October 11th, you need to look at it as them giving you $10-13k for your Epic MX on trade-in for the Epic-W, which is more than generous.

But yes, when comparing the trade-in cost w/ the discount we are getting for waiting, it doesn't seem as good.

EDIT: and I guess, going back to my original question, is that the guys who preordered the Scarlet-W w/ the Scarlet-D discount are in a weird situation... They placed an order early and have been waiting just as long as us, but they fall into that "old camera" upgrade path, too.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I think this may have already been touched on, but I was curious since I have friends in this position:

If a Scarlet Dragon owner already has the Scarlet-W discount package ordered but they want to upgrade to Epic-W (paying the full $20k like those of us with no RED camera who have Scarlet-W preorders) and keep their Scarlet-D, are they able to do that? I'd imagine their preorder could be treated like any other Scarlet-W preorder, they just lose the $2500 discount.

RE: Sending in Scarlet Dragon for Epic-W upgrade:

No - not only was that explained and discussed later but it really would make no sense. Bear with me...

If you order a Scarlet-W before the 11th, you can wait in line (apparently a very loooooong line) and eventually take delivery of a Scarlet-W, (Side note, if you happen to be a Scarlet Dragon owner with your camera purchased prior to NAB 2015, you can order the package which gives you discount on accessories). Simple, right?

Now, however, if the information looks good for Epic-W on the 11th, you can switch your Scarlet-W order to an Epic-W for an additional $10K (the price that has been thrown about). You keep your time stamp from your Scarlet-W order so, if you were early to that game you'll probably get your Epic-W fairly soon (depending on the 10/11 mad rush). If you decide not to switch to Epic-W but proceed with your Scarlet-W order, you also keep your timestamp but the Scarlet-W queue is likely to be shorter because of the Epic-W switchers. Per RED's plan, everybody is better off.

Now - where is the logic in having to send in a Scarlet Dragon in all of this? You'd get nothing more than the guy who just ordered Scarlet-W outright, correct? So, having to send in your old camera would simply be a penalty move on RED's part and just plain arbitrary and unfair. That is not how RED rolls so I am pretty sure from reading this thread that it is NOT what will happen.

Remember - the advantage the long time Scarlet-W "waiters" are getting is that they well now get their camera very, very soon. Anyone coming into this now is at the back of the line.