The Update Thread

[Marc Baitz]

Can any of the cameras that are egliable for an Upgrade to epic-w stay with their owners after the upgrade or do they all have to go back to RED for trade in? You had this scarlet-dragon to scarlet-w offer, anything similar from epic-dragon to epic-w?

 

[Norbert Niederacher]

Lets hope for a new macbook pro next month. I think that's going to be the go to portable for anyone that hasn't switched to the XPS yet.

a new super macbook pro hopefully

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Same price... remember... all DSCM1 cameras are giving ANY discount strictly as one time courtesy here.. It really makes no sense to even offer it.



Yes Sir.

Okay, so Jarred confirmed that even Red One MX qualifies for the $19,500 trade in. I'm not sure if final price has been confirmed but I think it was mentioned that the Epic W would be around $30K (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that number). So, assuming this is brain only that we are talking about and that one would have to account for a minimum of say $10K in accessories for media, LCD, i/o, etc that means without this deal, if I bought one from scratch from RED at retail it would be around $40K which gets me into one of the best cameras RED has made and can compete against a lot of cameras in its class. $40K is a lot of money, but not in camera terms for those who have been around this industry for a while. Remember, we're not that far removed from $250K digital cinema cameras. So if someone needs best in class images from a camera they can pick up an Epic W package for around $40-50K. Assuming they are busy, charging reasonable rates for their services and gear, they probably pay this off within a few years. And in the meantime, have probably built a very nice demo reel.

Before Jarred confirmed the trade in amounts, I would have considered Red One MX owners like myself pretty much like a person walking into the RED store and buying the package at retail. In fact, I would expect that as RED has already offered a lot of upgrade deals and the MX upgrades happened many years ago. I honestly don't feel entitled to anything at this point. But instead, it seems Jarred has just offered me and others a $19,500 discount. Which if my numbers are correct means that I can purchase the brain for $10,500. Which means for the basic accessories to go along with it and maybe some creative alternatives my total investment would be around $21K for a functioning camera. Again, $21K is still real money and based on my business plan, not even sure I can do this deal or should do this deal but I think the point I want to make is that RED has not forgot who their original early adopters are, because quite literally they could have said sorry guys but enough is enough, we've given you guys as many deals as we can. It seems they took a different approach here. Let's get as many people onto the DSMC 2 train as we can.

I know there are those out there (and on this forum) who think cameras should cost under $5K and some cases people want cameras that cost even less than that. I'm not sure how realistic that is right now, especially to get the quality control to go along with it. I think this is quite a deal that RED is about to offer. I'm sure people will find ways to pick it apart, and point out RED's flaws, delivery schedule issues, etc. But keep this in mind when doing so. Yes, RED was founded by a billionaire. That doesn't mean that it's easy to make state of the art cameras. If it was easy, then a lot of people would be making cameras of this quality. But there are only a handful of companies that can make cameras of this level, do it well, and make enough money to stay in business. I can assure you, that if RED could pump out a million cameras, all meeting high level of quality control they would do it. But they are a business, one that seems to want to stay in business for the long haul. They will have challenges, from design to manufacturing. We would all love to be able to call up and order whatever we want from them and have it shipped the next day. I think for a company like RED, that is going to be very difficult. They will continue to improve their efficiency with experience, but they are not a huge company with endless resources that can wave a magic wand and make it happen. And because of their popularity the demand often overwhelms the supply.

So, I'm not sure what October 11th will mean for me personally, but I can tell you that I am deeply grateful to Jarred and the team at RED for making that opportunity available. Much respect!!

I look forward to the fun on the 11th!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Lets hope for a new macbook pro next month. I think that's going to be the go to portable for anyone that hasn't switched to the XPS yet.

That would be cool but my approach in the last few years is not to hold my breath waiting for Apple. I am an Apple loyalist but I just try not to lose sleep figuring out their release and delivery schedule. I probably learned that from being a RED loyalist. LOL

 

[Carson Nyquist]

6K is a nice sweet spot in terms of resolution and crop on the Epic-W.

It is no mistake that at 6K on Epic-W that crop is pretty much the exact same size of APS-C ( 22.4mm wide ) , and that is where most other S35 cameras sit within a mm or so for comparison.

6K crop puts you right exactly back where ALL your S35mm lenses will fit... which is kinda the whole point.

And yes Andy you can have your 50FPS.

The Epic-W can hit 75 fps at 6K FF (6144 x 3240) , 100 fps at 6K WS (6144 x 2592)

damn.

 

[Scot Yount]

thats the delta between the two after trade in.. so somewhere around $34k.

Hi Jarred or Brent, sorry if this has already been answered. I try to follow pretty closely, but can't seem to find Scarlet-W Pre-Order to Weapon Helium price. You state here "after trade in..." but I am just a standing order. Is the $34K the same for me as a trade in?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

...

it seems Jarred has just offered me and others a $19,500 discount. Which if my numbers are correct means that I can purchase the brain for $10,500.

...

Steve - I think I followed the first part of your post about getting a $19,500 buy-in to Epic-W by virtue of being a RED ONE owner. I think that is accurate. But I am confused by this part (quoted above). What camera body would be available for $10.5K in this scenario? (I ask because a friend of mine has a ONE)

EDIT: Just to be clear, I think your cost for Epic-W is NOT a $19.5K discount but actually a $19.5K price tag. And, to my knowledge, doesn't require trade-in. You just have to make sure RED has you listed as the owner of record on 10/11.

That's how I understand it but that's all from trying to keep up with this thread so I could be wrong.

 

[Josh Becker]

Jarred, how are things looking on the accessory side of things? I don't know how soon I'd be allocated for an Epic-W (Dec 10th Scarlet package order) but I'm wondering if I should be buying accessories ahead of time or if there will be plenty available around launch. I'd hate to have my camera and no LCD or v-lock expander!

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Steve - I think I followed the first part of your post about getting a $19,500 buy-in to Epic-W by virtue of being a RED ONE owner. I think that is accurate. But I am confused by this part (quoted above). What camera body would be available for $10.5K in this scenario? (I ask because a friend of mine has a ONE)

Admittedly, I'm not completely up to date on all of the numbers. That $30K number I threw out there for the Epic W brain may be way off. I showed up late to the Update Thread party. I could be very confused on the details. I think I've got it correct that Red One owners would get a $19,500 discount though right? So, either way a Red One owner is not buying the camera at retail.

 

[Scot Yount]

You see, I wrap up an edit at 2AM, like I just did with my S-W and I watch it over and over and over and cant help but be so damn happy with that my S-W allows me to deliver. I cant imagine any drama haha. Offer a 10k camera for $5000 tomorrow and ill be happy you did, I wont care what I paid for my S-W, because just damn. I love this thing. *Disclaimer* I may be riding a 12 hour editing lack of sleep euphoric wave, if I sound a little crazy please forgive me, but look at THIS! So much awesome cameraness! lol



https://youtu.be/HowOYB3Jtac

John, Fantastic work. Somewhere else in this thread I saw you snuck in a still of Valentino!! My avatar clearly shows my loyalties!

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Alright, I've been trying to follow the thread more closely - Here's My understanding - please correct if wrong!


TRADE IN (EPIC-DRAGON + $14.5k) and get an EPIC-W Helium.
TRADE IN (MX based camera + $19.5k) and get an EPIC-W Helium.


-or-


KEEP my camera, place a 1k SCARLET-W deposit pre OCT 11, and switch que to EPIC-W for additional 19k (20k total)


-meaning-


$5.5k in addition to $14.5k offer lets me keep my EPIC-DRAGON + get EPIC-W Helium? (20k total)
$500 in addition to $19.5k offer lets me keep my MX based camera + get EPIC-W Helium? (20k total)


Is it confirmed whether these prices are definitively TRADE IN or a CREDIT (i.e. keep your camera)?
The value proposition would be confusing if it were the former (as some have pointed out)..

Very strong point you have but remember, the SCARLET-W to EPIC-W is more or less going to be limited as Jarred has mentioned, once they figure out the EPIC-W queue is getting long, they will close the path, (like its been mentioned, it might last 5 min or 5 days or months) however, I have a feeling the MX to EPIC-W will have more lifeline

 

[Samir Patel]

FoolControl + Epic-W , or any DSMC2 camera, is not a nice to have.. it is a must have. thx Mikael for the discount.

I see what you did there. Yes 48fps!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Admittedly, I'm not completely up to date on all of the numbers. That $30K number I threw out there for the Epic W brain may be way off. I showed up late to the Update Thread party. I could be very confused on the details. I think I've got it correct that Red One owners would get a $19,500 discount though right? So, either way a Red One owner is not buying the camera at retail.

OK - I edited my post above after thinking about it for a minute. AFAIK, you are being offered a purchase price for Epic-W of $19.5K by virtue of your RED ONE ownership. This could end up being about a $20K discount from retail but that really isn't known for sure as we haven't yet been told the actual retail price. And one thing to note that has been made clear is that we'll all need to jump on the Epic-W deal quickly after 10/11 if we want in.

 

[Norbert Niederacher]

Admittedly, I'm not completely up to date on all of the numbers. That $30K number I threw out there for the Epic W brain may be way off. I showed up late to the Update Thread party. I could be very confused on the details. I think I've got it correct that Red One owners would get a $19,500 discount though right? So, either way a Red One owner is not buying the camera at retail.

I believe, that you have to pay 19.500 US-Dollar to get an Epic-W...

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

With all these photos showing 3200 as the ISO, is anyone thinking that's the BASE ISO for helium? B/c that would be cray

 

[Michael Maes]

Lets hope for a new macbook pro next month. I think that's going to be the go to portable for anyone that hasn't switched to the XPS yet.

And add some "nMP-Hope" to that too... in a traditional form factor...

 

[Sergio Perez]

6K is a nice sweet spot in terms of resolution and crop on the Epic-W.

It is no mistake that at 6K on Epic-W that crop is pretty much the exact same size of APS-C ( 22.4mm wide ) , and that is where most other S35 cameras sit within a mm or so for comparison.

6K crop puts you right exactly back where ALL your S35mm lenses will fit... which is kinda the whole point.

And yes Andy you can have your 50FPS.

The Epic-W can hit 75 fps at 6K FF (6144 x 3240) , 100 fps at 6K WS (6144 x 2592)

Wow... just wow. Speechless. This is a true gift. Will definitely upgrade now. Even without the finances for Weapon Helium, Which would be the "dream", the Epic W is all the Epic Dragon is plus some horsepower. This will be a revolution in independent cinema.

I'm just watching Luke Cage and am loving the look the cinematographer is giving to it. It seems he's using the flaring of the LLO OLPF as a stylistic choice. Its just brilliant. I love my Red Dragon and I've always liked the way my low light optimized performs, even its flares. Its a unique character.

Going Helium will mean parting ways with Epic X Dragon 2029 Lilau... Epic W... will it bring a new chapter to "my" world?

Jarred, going Epic W, does it mean we are on the train for the future, too?

Thanks again, Red team.

 

[Norbert Niederacher]

Question to Jarred and Brent.

What about with RED ONE, which was executed with the upgrade to Epic-X. Stage I and II kept their cameras. Are these cameras eligible to upgrade again? I am asking for a friend...

 

[Steve Sherrick]

OK - I edited my post above after thinking about it for a minute. AFAIK, you are being offered a purchase price for Epic-W of $19.5K by virtue of your RED ONE ownership. This could end up being about a $20K discount from retail but that really isn't known for sure as we haven't yet been told the actual retail price. And one thing to note that has been made clear is that we'll all need to jump on the Epic-W deal quickly after 10/11 if we want in.

Ah, I guess we'll have to wait for the details but that actually makes more sense because $10.5K seemed low. So going with your numbers where the body would cost $19.5K and accessories probably another $10K minimum it would be somewhere in the $30K range. But if indeed you keep the Red One, that's ideal.

I'm clearly showing my inability to keep up with the forum announcements these days.

But hopefully my main point isn't lost. If RED offers any discounts for first generation customers, that's a very kind gesture. I don't think they would have caught any flack for not offering it, especially not from me. I've been able to get 8 solid years of use out of this camera. RED owes me nothing.

 

[Robert Gustafsson]

Getting confused with all these posts. Is the upgrade to Epic-W from older cameras (DSMC1 Dragon and MX) going to be a TRADE-IN or CREDIT?