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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Josh Gooden said:
When the announcement comes, will I be able to keep my place in line with the Scarlet-W if I take the upgrade offer? My biggest fear is getting into a situation where I am stuck in another waitlist & I’d almost rather have a camera sooner rather than later (12/31 timestamp). This is my first RED camera, so I’m eager to get familiar with the RAW workflow, make sure my computer can handle the files, etc. Really looking forward to it!
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Josh, this will be a "keep your timestamp" situation for people going from SCARLET-W to EPIC-W.
 
Brent, I have no idea how you handle it! I imagine a big chart on your walls like a Christopher Nolan film.

344048_v1.jpg
 
Bob, you can thank Nick G here at RED who keeps track of all upgrade path decisions and charts them out. He keeps me sane on this front. And, yes, the wall in his office kinda does look like that : )
 
Brent@RED said:
Bob, you can thank Nick G here at RED who keeps track of all upgrade path decisions and charts them out. He keeps me sane on this front. And, yes, the wall in his office kinda does look like that : )
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I figured yours looked more like a spaghetti monster. :)
 
Joshua Keffer said:
Right now I'm on the fence as to whether I'll jump on the Epic-W upgrade or stick with the Scarlet-W. A lot of it will depend on the Epic's ability to shoot slow-mo (48/60) without cropping. I've gotta have that, and we won't know until the specs are released.

My question is, in what ways is the Helium better than Dragon? I've heard it's "clean, beautiful, a 15 out of 10" and so on, but tangibly, what does that mean? For example, is it substantially better in low-light? Other improvements? I'd love to hear from people that have used it (Phil?) rather than speculation from others. Basically, we know it's "better." but how in what ways, specifically?
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Why don't you download some of the r3d's floating around here and have a look for yourself.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-still-frame-files-Dc-Camera&highlight=helium
 
So I'm trying to crunch some numbers regarding 8K... according to Phil's data sheet calculator, 8K FF at 5:1 is about 1TB per hour. (5K Scarlet-W at 5:1 is about 350GB/hr).

Theoretically, how do compression ratios effect an image when you're planning to scale down? For example, if I was shooting a project and the client wanted some interviews that I knew would never need to be over 4K but I wanted to retain my full sensor FOV, would it be safe to crank up the compression and record at 8K? According to Phil's data sheet, 8K Helium 13:1 is about 350GB/hr. If I scaled that down to 4K, would it look significantly worse than 5K at 5:1?

Probably a stupid question but I'm just trying to figure out the logistics of possibly shooting with 8K and not spending the $10k in savings on a ton of Mini Mags!
 
keep in mind you will prob be able to get away with shooting 10:1 for most things

I plan on using two 512GB mini mags. IF i need more I'll get them, but gonna see what the two i have now will do for me
 
Matthew Quinn said:
keep in mind you will prob be able to get away with shooting 10:1 for most things
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For sure. I'm mostly curious if there is a big quality difference between more highly compressed 8K (when scaled to 4K) vs. 4K at a lower ratio. And how far you could push it (like is 20:1 8K scaled down to 4K going to look way worse than native 4K at 10:1)
 
gonna take a lot of testing out, not to mention no one even knows what the new color is going to look like yet.. the compression thing will be something to play with for sure... I'm thinking 10:1 for indy feature work
 
Josh Becker said:
For sure. I'm mostly curious if there is a big quality difference between more highly compressed 8K (when scaled to 4K) vs. 4K at a lower ratio. And how far you could push it (like is 20:1 8K scaled down to 4K going to look way worse than native 4K at 10:1)
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I think the consensus in the past has been to shoot at a higher resolution and compression>lower resolution and compression. The difference between 5:1 and 10:1 is almost not perceivable, whereas if you crop then you're looking at magnifying grain structure and lens imperfections.
 
Take my money please I cannot burden the wait anymore:w00t:

question:
I have a creditcard I can only charge for 2K each month. And if I want to raise that amount it is a hassle to do so but if I must I do. I normally pay by wire transfer but that takes 1-2 days.
So my question is does your place in line gets detrimened by when you place your order or when the payment is fulfilled.
Someone know?
 
Jaimy Soares said:
Take my money please I cannot burden the wait anymore:w00t:

question:
I have a creditcard I can only charge for 2K each month. And if I want to raise that amount it is a hassle to do so but if I must I do. I normally pay by wire transfer but that takes 1-2 days.
So my question is does your place in line gets detrimened by when you place your order or when the payment is fulfilled.
Someone know?
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IIRC, you have about a week to fulfill payment before loosing your allocation. I usually pay for Red gear with a debit card because it exceeds my CC limit usually, but I'm also CONUS, not sure how that works in the Netherlands.
 
Josiah Duncan said:
I think the consensus in the past has been to shoot at a higher resolution and compression>lower resolution and compression. The difference between 5:1 and 10:1 is almost not perceivable, whereas if you crop then you're looking at magnifying grain structure and lens imperfections.
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Gotcha. Now if we compare 8K FF (at high compression, then scaled down) to the Scarlet-W's 5K/4K (at lower compression), we don't have the magnification/cropping on the Scarlet-W. I'm curious how much that would change things. Just a ton of data to manage...

To use Jarred's comparison of handing out bags of gold on a mountain... I'm super jazzed about all this gold but I think my legs might give out before I make it down!
 
Brent@RED said:
Orders through dealers for Scarlet-W will be treated the same as direct orders.
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Thanks, Brent! When announcements are made, do we need to order the upgrade through RED or our dealer (in my case, AbelCine LA)?

[Nevermind] I just saw the path is based off Scarlet-W timestamp, not first to draw when the link goes live :)
 
Jaimy Soares said:
Take my money please I cannot burden the wait anymore:w00t:

question:
I have a creditcard I can only charge for 2K each month. And if I want to raise that amount it is a hassle to do so but if I must I do. I normally pay by wire transfer but that takes 1-2 days.
So my question is does your place in line gets detrimened by when you place your order or when the payment is fulfilled.
Someone know?
Click to expand...

Jaimy
excuse me if I have the wrong end of the stick:)
in some countries you can make a payment into your credit card account, so that the account then has a credit. You can then make a credit card payment to the value of the credit on the account plus your monthly limit.
So deposit $10k into an account with a $2k limit and you can make a credit card purchase of $12k. You get the benifit of cc insurance.
Its prudent to call a credit card company in advance of making an untypical purchase.


cheers

Mike Brennan
 
Josh Becker said:
So I'm trying to crunch some numbers regarding 8K... according to Phil's data sheet calculator, 8K FF at 5:1 is about 1TB per hour. (5K Scarlet-W at 5:1 is about 350GB/hr).

Theoretically, how do compression ratios effect an image when you're planning to scale down? For example, if I was shooting a project and the client wanted some interviews that I knew would never need to be over 4K but I wanted to retain my full sensor FOV, would it be safe to crank up the compression and record at 8K? According to Phil's data sheet, 8K Helium 13:1 is about 350GB/hr. If I scaled that down to 4K, would it look significantly worse than 5K at 5:1?

Probably a stupid question but I'm just trying to figure out the logistics of possibly shooting with 8K and not spending the $10k in savings on a ton of Mini Mags!
Click to expand...

Not a stupid question and there's many answers to it in this case. In some ways I actually want to film 2:1-3:1 at 8K, however, if you watched Forged that was all 60fps at 8K using a REDCODE RAW Compression Ratio of 12:1 and that looks damn beautiful on the big screen.
 
6k 8:1 has typically been the sweet spot for me, if I wanted to get the same length of footage at 8k I'd need about 15:1, I believe.

Might look better overall but it doesn't feel right to me to shoot over 10:1
 
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