The Update Thread

[Eric Lange]

Yeah? How has that flown under the radar?

Funny you would use that turn of phrase.... I was thinking "Ranger 1, Ranger 1, where have I heard that before... hmmm " ; now I remember my early space history, Ranger 1 to 9 (I think) were a set of early satellites launched by NASA (the later ones being used) to explore the moon, sort of a reconnaissance mission to the moon.

http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ranger7_model.jpg

[Notice the cigar in the picture ;-) ].

I really like the attachment points/rosettes for the handles on the Ranger "Platform". In other words without handles the Ranger Camera can/could /will be mounted in a more sophisticated and precise "Orientation" mounts. It's a frustration of mine that most "off the shelf" cameras only mount at one point or surface which is not good for rotating a camera through two or three axes of rotation as a single low point or surface for mounting far away from the center of gravity causes unwanted extra vibrations and small deflections/mechanical distortions. So for me the position of those attachment points (on the Ranger) means (theoretically) we can use such a camera in a far more precise and robust way. I think people forget that vibration (even very small angular vibration) can spell "death" to technical photography where every "pixel" counts especially for higher res/number of pixel shots. Having well placed large connection points really helps to iron things out. I really like the fact that these guys (GDU) are breaking out of the mold to enable more diverse and perhaps more meaningful applications outside of the "Biz"/entertainment industry.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_7#Spacecraft_design

[Interesting that this Wikki page discussing how Ranger 7 (in 1964) sent images back of the moon; discusses (first paragraph) how six VIDICON television cameras were used , wide angle and narrow angle set ups on different channels].

 

[Frederik Lindstrøm]

I think it could be a cage/module thing - take off the sidepanels and slip the DSMC2 brain into the Ranger 1.0 thing and you get extra LEMO port's, rosette for the new handle and a more space in the back for larger 3rd party modules. On the DSMC2 brain there are 2x cable-free connections that could connect to the Ranger 1.0 module and probaly power the 3 LEMO's...

"Consumer" version of the Xenomorph David Fincher got...? And Jarred said at some point that the DSMC2 body would stay for years to come...

 

[Matthew Quinn]

could totally explain those m3 screws.

but yah the side panels would have to come off all the way

 

[Elsie N]

Someone do a test please. Put two different talents in separate rooms, have them do a scene shot by a black Ranger in one room and a white Ranger in another room. Then have the talents switch rooms and do the same scene.

Have someone judge their performance in a blind comparison not knowing which camera shot the scene (to be clear, the talent would be able to see which camera they were performing for.)

I'm just curious if the white Ranger being more noticeable causes the actors to put more into their performance or if it is a distraction that detracts from their performance.

 

[Adam Hagenbuch]

I'm just curious if the white Ranger being more noticeable causes the actors to put more into their performance or if it is a distraction that detracts from their performance.

As an actor myself, I'm hoping this is a joke.
Any actor distracted by a camera at all is probably not a professional, let alone being distracted or motivated by the color.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

The white Ranger beats the Black/Orange furry Ranger but the Green Nike green Bayhem beats them all!

And BTW the Ranger is the BayHem.....

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

As an actor myself, I'm hoping this is a joke.
Any actor distracted by a camera at all is probably not a professional, let alone being distracted or motivated by the color.

Some actors don't like to see the AC and the operator behind the cameras and request to dress the camera with all the french flags up...
Also eyeballing the camera because it's white and your shooting in the dark is possible.

That's why I don't understand the white Heliums. It seems an awesome camera, but I'm requested to dress in dark tone or black when shooting pack shots, if the camera itself is visible in the wine bottle, what's the point.

 

[Eric Lange]

Some actors don't like to see the AC and the operator behind the cameras and request to dress the camera with all the french flags up...
Also eyeballing the camera because it's white and your shooting in the dark is possible.

That's why I don't understand the white Heliums. It seems an awesome camera, but I'm requested to dress in dark tone or black when shooting pack shots, if the camera itself is visible in the wine bottle, what's the point.

Yup.

My thought about the white body is the same as why we use white Nomex etc on space suits and why we paint some spacecraft and payload elements white. Basically matt white reflects heat away really well (at least in sunlight) . So I have interpreted the white Heliums (or is it Helia?) as being an "Outdoor" or "Outside" camera that would stay cooler as a result of being white. That reduces the cooling burden and also reduces the noise in the imagery and probably also helps stop the camera from being "cooked" or baked in the sun. An all black camera in the sun would get totally cooked and the imagery would be very noisy in dark/black tones and probably whatever internal cooling system would wave the white flag and totally give up. [Ironically somewhere in the camera internals black heat sinks are better at radiating heat away ]. [Not for nothing also your back focal distance is going to get slightly messed up with big thermal changes, aluminum glass and glass fiber reinforced epoxy (on a PCB) do have appreciable coefficients of thermal expansion].

Typically an all white camera is not "On set" friendly but not 100% prohibitive either; a matt box will fix most of that. For tricky shots with regard to reflections I have seen six foot black panels built to "Poke" a lens through. The Panavision film magazines were white... I don't remember anyone specifically complaining about that?


Is HELIOS not the Greek god of the SUN... Hence the name Helium? (of the sun?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios

Random thought... Regarding French Flags; the Heliums (sp?) seem very flight worthy. Traditionally if you want to keep a camera out of the sunlight you have all kinds of baffles and shades and so on... BUT you can't have that on Quad copter/ drone as such baffles will screw with the flight characteristics significantly... Also external lens controls are bulky and superfluous also, so Helium looks really "Outdoorsy" and Flight worthy from many aspects of its design... But I think Jarred was sort of hinting that Helium is a sort of test bed for something else that they will roll out?




[On a side note: I agree with the sentiment that most professional / experienced actors can get in the zone and anything behind the camera including a crew of about nearly 50 people and all kinds of weird physical elements and equipment and the other half of a (freaking) sound stage are not a distraction ( I don't know how they do it... but it is a real discipline and part of the "craft" IMO) but most everybody is dressed in black (more or less). Maybe for super emotional scenes that have close ups and a fragile artist (blackmailing/holding a production to ransom ) then maybe such a request would be happily followed? Is the sound man with the big "fuzzy" mic and boom not more of a distraction?]

 

[Adam Hagenbuch]

[On a side note: I agree with the sentiment that most professional / experienced actors can get in the zone and anything behind the camera including a crew of about nearly 50 people and all kinds of weird physical elements and equipment and the other half of a (freaking) sound stage are not a distraction ( I don't know how they do it... but it is a real discipline and part of the "craft" IMO) but most everybody is dressed in black (more or less). Maybe for super emotional scenes that have close ups and a fragile artist (blackmailing/holding a production to ransom ) then maybe such a request would be happily followed? Is the sound man with the big "fuzzy" mic and boom not more of a distraction?]

THANK YOU. Talented actors should be expected to prioritize the circumstances of their scenework and dialogue over everything else, and it's only the diva's that make the rest of us look like ungrateful, hyperemotional idiots.
And yes the boom mic is almost universally the most distracting part of a production, outside of bad material or a unresponsive cast mate or god forbid - an indecisive director.
The camera is usually one of the least distracting elements in a scene, in my opinion.

 

[Elsie N]

As an actor myself, I'm hoping this is a joke.
Any actor distracted by a camera at all is probably not a professional, let alone being distracted or motivated by the color.

Not a joke and if you were offended, I'm sorry. But some things happen at such a low level that only an objective study can reveal any bias.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Only thing about the white cameras i would be distracted about would be someone scuffing it! Or rubbing their dirty ass hands on it

 

[ian henry]

Yes, the element Helium is named for the Greek God of the sun

 

[Eric Lange]

THANK YOU. Talented actors should be expected to prioritize the circumstances of their scenework and dialogue over everything else, and it's only the diva's that make the rest of us look like ungrateful, hyperemotional idiots.
And yes the boom mic is almost universally the most distracting part of a production, outside of bad material or a unresponsive cast mate or god forbid - an indecisive director.
The camera is usually one of the least distracting elements in a scene, in my opinion.

That made laugh/funny turn of phrase "and it's only the diva's that make the rest of us look like ungrateful, hyperemotional idiots.".




I've only been on or at EMI, Pinewood, Sheperton and Bray studios in the U.K. so I don't know how it really goes in L.A. exactly. I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy between "Crew" vs. "Talent" (I hate that phrase)... Up to a point ; its not like "YOU actors , blah, blah blah". Most productions I've witnessed or been a part of, that the "Vibe" on set when the camera is rolling is that everybody is pretty sympathetic with everybody quietly pulling or yearning almost from their gut to make everything a success no matter what. I think one of the biggest challenges is boredom, after a 20+ takes and pretty much shooting the same sequence all day long and in some cases over several days (with the same three lines of dialogue) it can be a huge challenge I would image for the folks in front of the camera to keep it "Fresh", stay focused without totally losing it. There are of course in the annals of "Cinematic History" some notorious individuals but I stress they are singled out as being VERY remarkable, and frankly and sadly has more to do with Alcohol and substance abuse than anything else that has the capability to derail a production. It's not like there are no hyper emotional and super stressed out directors willing to make an example of one department or another when things are not going so smoothly LOL.

Back on topic ... Yeah white cameras / Ranger / Helium. As I say the Panavision film magazines were white and are probably about two to three times the surface area of the Ranger, the Ranger has cool compound angles that can break up reflections really well (not that that is a real issue) but the Panavision film magazine is/was a large flat orthogonal white surface but narrow in profile. I'm wondering if the Panavision film magazine was white also to control temperature as well. Basically the reactivity of film alters with temperature and hence can screw with your supposed exposure.

Its funny also about notions of dressing in black... In some specific shoots I wonder these days whether it makes more sense to dress up in Chromakey green from head to toe ...

@AdamH are you fixin to get some Red "Gear" for yourself?

 

[Samir Patel]

Alright Jarred, seems to be many people are already in the air on the way to IBC. So lets take a moment to spill some information while no one is looking...

 

[Matthew Quinn]

^^ what Samir said

 

[Adam Hagenbuch]

@AdamH are you fixin to get some Red "Gear" for yourself?

Well I'm already a proud owner of a Red One Mx. An absolute work horse, a real beauty. She's been with me through thick and thin, but she's got a sensor defect now and its beginning to get more noticeable.

Thats why I threw down for a Scarlet-W preorder back in January, but it's been slow going now.
Hoping for an update in the next month or so, but the Red One will keep me company until then - she's still got some life in her yet.

 

[Brody_B]

^^ what Matthew said

 

[Aaron Swann]

Well I'm already the proud owner of a defective Scarlet-W that has barely been used. Luckily nobody returned my calls on the after hours emergency contact number, so I decided to submit an online support request and to my amazement they swiftly replied within a day and a half and still no outcome. Now please forgive me for my sarcastic tone and bad attitude but when your income is compromised due to no fault of your own you tend to get pissed off.

 

[Phil Holland]

Well I'm already the proud owner of a defective Scarlet-W that has barely been used. Luckily nobody returned my calls on the after hours emergency contact number, so I decided to submit an online support request and to my amazement they swiftly replied within a day and a half and still no outcome. Now please forgive me for my sarcastic tone and bad attitude but when your income is compromised due to no fault of your own you tend to get pissed off.

Can you elaborate on what's defective or the problem? More for curiosity's sake. You can PM if you'd like.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Well I'm already the proud owner of a defective Scarlet-W that has barely been used. Luckily nobody returned my calls on the after hours emergency contact number, so I decided to submit an online support request and to my amazement they swiftly replied within a day and a half and still no outcome. Now please forgive me for my sarcastic tone and bad attitude but when your income is compromised due to no fault of your own you tend to get pissed off.

Sorry to hear aboit your issues. RED will make it right...they always do.