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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Jarred Land said:
Granted.

Epic-W has same physical sensor size as Helium Weapon.
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hmmm, I don't know if this is good news or not so good news :D - the Scarlet D had the same physical sensor size as the Epic D, but sure did not shoot the same thing :) No 6K motion.

One can only hope that the Epic-W will shoot the same thing as Helium Weapon (8K 60fps) with higher compression and lower res ProRes proxy, keeping the spec difference that we now have between WMg and WCf
 
Jarred Land said:
It is a whole new helium imaging pipeline, not only a color science and not just a color gamut.

You will be able to apply it to both new and old Dragon footage via post tools and Redcine-X.
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So does this mean the new Helium color science only works on Dragon sensors via post? Or can those who own the current DSMC2 Dragon based sensors (like the S-W) use the new color science in-camera while filming? That would be ideal.

It would be a bit disheartening to have just got a new Dragon DSMC2 camera (pretty much all of us) and not have access to the new color science in-camera. Wouldn’t this limit the ability of the current Dragon DSMC2 to work in harmony with Helium on a production since they will have different color sciences while on set?

I know the Scarlet-W is considered the lower end model, but for my financial means it was $$$. I’d be a bit sad to be left behind on the color science so soon after getting the camera.
 
Levi Arnold said:
Is there a benefit to having the color science in camera as opposed to just in editing though? If it's like the ISO, RAW data, then it can be changed in post from RG4/RLF to H1. I just made up H1 for Helium One.
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Really just affects your ProRes files since those are baked in, on camera . Helium has a completely new pixel with a completely new accuracy for color, so it needs its own process in camera.

But, just like current helium owners are using their cameras with "Dragon" pipeline and getting incredible results, Dragon cameras will be able to use luts that mimic the look of the new image processing pipeline that will be great for proxies and on set viewing for matching other cameras.
 
Jarred Land said:
But, just like current helium owners are using their cameras with "Dragon" pipeline and getting incredible results, Dragon cameras will be able to use luts that mimic the look of the new image processing pipeline that will be great for proxies and on set viewing for matching other cameras.
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LUTs are a good solution (especially if there's an official Red version). As long as the cameras match on set, I'm stoked. Thanks for responding.
 
Jarred Land said:
Really just affects your ProRes files since those are baked in, on camera . Helium has a completely new pixel with a completely new accuracy for color, so it needs its own process in camera..
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Bingo. That'll be nice for matching and having another 'base' color option to grade from. Interested to see how colors are rendered and translated.
 
Musing

Musing

New accuracy for color. Hmmmm.

One limitation of Bayer CFA imaging is the trade off between sensitivity and color information discrimination accuracy (lack of cross-talk) in choosing dye strength on the color filter array. I wonder if it would be possible to add full spectrum white light to the optical path in proportion to the density (stop loss) of the "gels" on the tiny phototsites. The actual imaged light would "ride atop" the added light, which is matched to the filters so the decoded values are nominal. Sort of like how a sub-carrier works in analog FM radio. One potential upside of such a scheme is to improve signal/noise ratio by remapping values into a scale that offers greater mathematical precision and make it possible to be more accurate during decode in identifying and removing FPN (fixed pattern noise) caused by low level EMF energy.

This may be the stupidest suggestion in the history of camera forums, but with all the successes we have seen the last few years with back-light illuminated sensors it got me thinking. Remapping and boosting the signal first - before the high cut filter - was part of how Dolby noise reduction for sound extended S/N ratios. Could a similar tactic work for measuring photons? I suppose way more sophisticated versions of such schemes could easily be under the hood of many modern cameras, hard to know what any manufacturer does in their front end DSP (digital signal processor) chips since the details are proprietary IP.

Cheers - #19
 
Alberto Guglielmi said:
Any chance we can ask Brent to sum it up in formal RED update? So you are safe from spilling more beans. I am getting so lost in multiple threads, hints, revelations, and the occasional discussion over first amendment rights...
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How can I make a formal update of informal hints? Haha. I would tell you the same thing I tell Jarred - "Wait till October!"

The RED TEAM jump button next to the post number in my and Jarred's headers is your best friend. Takes only to the next post of a RED team member. When you see the RED coin logo, it is the last post by a RED person...
 
Alberto Guglielmi said:
Any chance we can ask Brent to sum it up in formal RED update? So you are safe from spilling more beans. I am getting so lost in multiple threads, hints, revelations, and the occasional discussion over first amendment rights...
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heh heh heh you asked the wrong thing from the wrong guy... The only way I am getting away with this is because I am in Japan right now just far enough away from him so he can't slap me on the side of the head :)
 
Brent@RED.com said:
How can I make a formal update of informal hints? Haha. I would tell you the same thing I tell Jarred - "Wait till October!"
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Can you tell us if it is early or late October? October could very well feel like the longest month in history. :)
 
the word unprecedented springs to mind when considering what these new cameras have brought to the industry and the frank honesty in this post is something that is rare and inspiring .......... worth the wait .......... OMG yes!
 
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