The Update Thread

[Steve DiMaggio]

Jarred has made it pretty clear that the whole point behind enticing people into jumping onto the Epic-W bandwagon is to alleviate pressure on Dragon sensors in order to help get Scarlet-W into customers' hands sooner. That Red is willing to take a hit to the bottom line because the Scarlet-W and Raven are so far behind has affected my confidence in Red, but for the better.

yeah didn't feel like looking through 263 pages to find it, thanks for clearing that up, so 10K upgrade to epic w (one day only specs not released correct?) or wait for faster delivery on scarlet w?

I thought I saw that, but then there is some other epic dragon questions and it all seems a bit confusing.

When are epic w going to ship? When is Scarlet W now slated to ship?

 

[Daniel Stilling]

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare.cgi?formatOne_typeTech=Kodak%7CFilm&formatOne_format=Super+35mm+3-Perf&formatTwo_typeTech=RED%7CMysterium-X&formatTwo_format=4K+FF&focalLengths=

I stand corrected. I could swear MX at 4K was super 35, since 5K was larger than super 35...

 

[Rakesh Malik]

yeah didn't feel like looking through 263 pages to find it, thanks for clearing that up, so 10K upgrade to epic w (one day only specs not released correct?) or wait for faster delivery on scarlet w?

I thought I saw that, but then there is some other epic dragon questions and it all seems a bit confusing.

When are epic w going to ship? When is Scarlet W now slated to ship?

The specs are available, it's basically an 8K version of Scarlet-W using a Helium sensor, to summarize. Not certain about delivery times, but part of the point is to draw people out of the Scarlet-W queue.

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

I stand corrected. I could swear MX at 4K was super 35, since 5K was larger than super 35...

He he yeah I hoped too but at the time I was on Scarlet MX and its small sensor, I envied so much Epic owners for the huge sensor (and HS of course)!

 

[Steve DiMaggio]

The specs are available, it's basically an 8K version of Scarlet-W using a Helium sensor, to summarize. Not certain about delivery times, but part of the point is to draw people out of the Scarlet-W queue.

gotcha, I didn't see it on the red page so wasn't sure on specs, now it does sound tempting lol!

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

The specs are available, it's basically an 8K version of Scarlet-W using a Helium sensor, to summarize.

We don't know about data rates or frame rates, which is a pretty significant part of the equation. Scarlet-W is 140 MB/s, while many are guessing that Epic-W will be 225 MB/s similar to Weapon MG.

 

[Stacey Spears]

exactly. i want s35, but post wont accept anything shot above 4khd, no matter how i try to defend it, the more i try to shoot at a higher res and explain it, i become the problem dp that is hard to deal with. thats the tv world for you.

Can you deliver ProRes / DNxHR for 4K? If so, then Helium would be ideal for you. You shoot 8K at ~S35 and then deliver 4K from that 8K image in ProRes / DNxHR. Then you also have the higher resolution raw for when YOU want it.

Now if they want RAW S35 @ 4K, then Helium would not be ideal for you.

 

[jordan levy]

[/COLOR]

Can you deliver ProRes / DNxHR for 4K? If so, then Helium would be ideal for you. You shoot 8K at ~S35 and then deliver 4K from that 8K image in ProRes / DNxHR. Then you also have the higher resolution raw for when YOU want it.

Now if they want RAW S35 @ 4K, then Helium would not be ideal for you.

well it's me who wants raw, and that's my selling point for a red camera on some of my jobs, but as well it's not even what i deliver, it's a mandated capture spec. they do not want to go back to a raw any bigger then 4khd. so i guess im stuck with a crop with red, doesnt seem to big though, i havent noticed it so far. i just know theologically in my head i know id prefer to filming in s35, call me old fashioned.

 

[Brody_B]

Thought S35 was closer to 7k on Helium.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Thought S35 was closer to 7k on Helium.

24.89/0.00365mm = 6820 pixels width

 

[Sergio Perez]

I love Red code Raw. I've worked with red raw in Events on the World stage, where an edit and delivery needed to be made, with quality, in less than 48 hours. Recode Raw is mature, its versatile, its amazing. I don't need on camera prores. What I need though are frame rates. If the EPIC W is a Helium with its frame rates and without prores, I will personally fly to NAB or whatever show the Red team is next year and give them a bow and a very, very heartfelt thank you.

Since the beginning Redcode Raw was a key red revolution for filmmaking. Prores I can convert in post. Frame Rates of the Epic MX and Dragon where a game changer for me both commercially and artistically. I can't see myself go back to yesteryears.

Make it so, Red Team!!

 

[Daniel Reed]

Well is you're super, duper, freaky picky with Helium 7K HD nets you a near identical crop factor to Super 35mm:

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...matTwo_format=Super+35mm+4-Perf&focalLengths=

Or you know. Just shoot 7K FF as well.

In general the 8K FF image circle is within the expected tolerance of many Super 35mm lenses.

Below is a link to S35 3-perf compared to helium 7K HD.
It shows Helium 7K HD as 1% smaller - this is good and should ensure every S35 lens will work.

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...wo_typeTech=RED|Helium&formatTwo_format=7K HD

For reference to Dragon, 5.5K HD is 6% bigger then S35 3-perf:

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare..._typeTech=RED|Dragon&formatTwo_format=5.5K HD

 

[Matthew Riggieri]

And 7K on helium is actually slightly larger that 5K on Dragon

 

[Luca Volpe]

Posted by Jarred!!!

 

[Jacob Ryan]

Can't wait to see if the Scarlet W (package) to Epic W upgrade will come with EF or PL as a standard mount.

Posted by Jarred!!!

 

[Randy Panado]

I hope theres an option! Or possibly they can swap the S-W mount onto the Epic-W.

 

[Michael Hastings]

snip "If prores is allowed, then any of the higher end weapons can do 4kUHD at any sensor 'crop factor'.

This is an important point - it seems to me 4KUHD prores is essential on the 8K heliums as it will make it vastly more useable in a lot of situations where the data required for 8k is too much but the production still wants S35ish DOF characteristics.

 

[Minu Park]

Many people worried about "space issue" due to shoot on 7k-8K at full sensor readout for shooting on S35 sensor size, and it's crop factor if you want to shoot on lower resolution in epic-w sensor.

I found very interesting part on the spec at Hellium, and this might give us some hope on "doc" or smaller file to shoot Epic-W.

APPLE PRORES 422 HQ, 422 and 422 LT at 4K(4096 x 2160) Up to 29.97 fps <==============================

That's it. If you need slow mo or any other faster frames, just shoot it on R3D. If you wanted to shoot on 2K or up to 400FPS, The sensor will be....really small... and that's the real downside, and that's the thing that you must compromise.

Well... I think I will be happy with prores 4K or this amazing R3D.

 

[Christopher K Ahn]

Another one in the wild. Not that there's any proof here, but this leads me to think there's at least 24/30 fps @8k, just some speculation.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Posted by Jarred!!!

Epic Dragon and Weapon both have "Dragon" on the side SSD, Sensor name. However, Raven and Epic-W have camera name on the side SSD. Is RED moving from sensor name to camera name on the side SSD? It makes for easier identification of cameras than having generic sensor name on the side across different types of cameras.