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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Three Axis Gimbal Thread

Dane Henry said:
My good friend Sean Haverstock of SkyPoint Visuals, an aerial and handheld stabilization cinematography company, has built one here in Tahoe and we took it for it 1st test drive a couple days ago.


Here are some images we produced with it, as well as some behind the scenes footage.

Even though this was our first time operating the gimbal we were able to produce some impressive shots. While not quite perfect yet, Sean is still dialing the gimbal in and figuring out how to get the most stable platform for us to run our cameras on. I'm really impressed with what he has done so far. The running shots with the swing bikes blew my mind. We didn't add any post-stabilization so that you could see just how good the gimbal is operating. With Warp Stabilizer the shots become rock solid.

What is really promising is since we were on foot we were putting it into about as tough of a situation as you can for the stabilization. We will using this off bikes, cars and Helicopters which will have less random vertical changes (the one direction these gimbals can not stabilize). I'm excited to really explore the possibilities with this new tool.

Waiting now for a new motor, that is supposedly coming soon, that is beefier and can run the EPIC.

-dane
Click to expand...

Gymbals cannot stabilize camera position at all - not just up-down, but right-left and in-out too. If you are running fast (as we see in most gymbal shots) then inertia will help you have less issues with this this, but moving very slowly, or moving very close to objects, this lack of stabilization would become much more apparent. On a Steadicam you can do shots where the camera barely moves at all.

This is why they are a compliment to Steadicam, not a replacement.

That said, your rig looks pretty good.
 
David Kellermann said:
On it already :)

I'm working with a well known company on a brushless gimbal, but it will take some more months to finish the development. Right now, most systems are based on ALEXmos boards. Those unfortunately aren't as good as Freefly's MoVI (the MoVI is really well thought trough), also they have problems powering motors strong enough for an Epic. If you NEED a real good gimbal right now for an Epic, go with the MoVI. Otherwise, I would recommend everyone to wait some more months...
Click to expand...

We also use the alexmos boards for our 3-axis gimbal. Like with probably all other bl controllers it is quite difficult to find perfect settings and this is going to be the main difference between all the suppliers which are entering the market. There are three values that needs to be adjusted to the motors used and the gimbal dimensions. That's the PID control circuit and there are also PWM power settings which has to be matched in a perfect way. So there are actually 4 values per axis and together 12 parameter values for all 3 axis which needs adjustment in the controller software...

I just found settings I'm happy with and which are also stable while running after 2 additional days of testing. Will try to make some good footage in the next time. Fortunately powering strong motors with the alexmos board is easier than the settings adjustment. The L6234D output drivers support up to 5 Amps per motor and this is more than enough, also for cameras like the Alexa.

I like the video Dane posted very much. Obviously his partner found good settings as well. I'm pretty sure they also used the alexmos controllers.

Best regards,
Andreas

www.portahead.de
 
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Robert Ruffo New said:
Gymbals cannot stabilize camera position at all - not just up-down, but right-left and in-out too. If you are running fast (as we see in most gymbal shots) then inertia will help you have less issues with this this, but moving very slowly, or moving very close to objects, this lack of stabilization would become much more apparent. On a Steadicam you can do shots where the camera barely moves at all.

This is why they are a compliment to Steadicam, not a replacement.

That said, your rig looks pretty good.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rob. Agreed with much of what you say here, and it is basically what I had said in my second post.

Although, After working with the gimbal I think you can do slow movements with this thing and have them come out solid. The shot from beneath the slackliner walking toward camera at 2:01 is a very very slow move....the shot is pretty solid when I watch it. the only mess up was ME the gimbal operator messing with the Pitch/Tilt...lesson learned :)

This was our 1st go with the thing, just like any tool, the people working with them will get better and better. And the strengths and weaknesses of the tool will be shone for what they are. It's not a Steadicam but I think it still has value in the quiver of tools for a production.

-dane
 
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Dane Henry said:
My good friend Sean Haverstock of SkyPoint Visuals, an aerial and handheld stabilization cinematography company, has built one here in Tahoe and we took it for it 1st test drive a couple days ago.


Here are some images we produced with it, as well as some behind the scenes footage.

Even though this was our first time operating the gimbal we were able to produce some impressive shots. While not quite perfect yet, Sean is still dialing the gimbal in and figuring out how to get the most stable platform for us to run our cameras on. I'm really impressed with what he has done so far. The running shots with the swing bikes blew my mind. We didn't add any post-stabilization so that you could see just how good the gimbal is operating. With Warp Stabilizer the shots become rock solid.

What is really promising is since we were on foot we were putting it into about as tough of a situation as you can for the stabilization. We will using this off bikes, cars and Helicopters which will have less random vertical changes (the one direction these gimbals can not stabilize). I'm excited to really explore the possibilities with this new tool.

Waiting now for a new motor, that is supposedly coming soon, that is beefier and can run the EPIC.

-dane
Click to expand...
I'm impressed
 
I'd love to hear from people who are making their own DIY rigs - how much do all the materials cost, and how much time would you estimate was invested?
 
The dilemma for these to be used with a Red is that all these parts from China ( including this one by Dane . Look on Ebay. ) are limited to lighter weight cameras.
Dane, it is more meaningful to show a video that also has in insert of the behind the camera view, as in if the rig was on a wheeled vehicle chasing the bikers, or was it a dude running with the rig.
It seems to me that post stabilization does the same thing as these little rigs do. Post stabilize treats the same three axis ( plus zoom ). Just like these rigs, post stabilize will not fix translation errors such as the up-down bob of a walking person, or sideways bumps. You just can't remove the parallax errors with a 3 axis rig, and the results can looks funky.
Notice how the demo videos try to avoid close with far objects to get away from the unsolved translation and parallax errors.
 
Les Dittert said:
Dane, it is more meaningful to show a video that also has in insert of the behind the camera view, as in if the rig was on a wheeled vehicle chasing the bikers, or was it a dude running with the rig.
Click to expand...

??? huh, that's exactly what this video does...BTS footage then Gimbal footage, BTS footage then Gimbal footage, BTS footage then Gimbal footage, etc.

Did you watch it?

-dane
 
Dane Henry said:
??? huh, that's exactly what this video does...BTS footage then Gimbal footage, BTS footage then Gimbal footage, BTS footage then Gimbal footage, etc.

Did you watch it?

-dane
Click to expand...

Dane,

Great video. I did watch it and look forward to more info on the new rig.
 
I had a very nice meeting today with Andreas Kielb from http://www.portahead.de/ , discussing what all those gimbals are missing and how they should be designed to perfectly fit an Epic. Not sure how many of you have ever used one of them, but balancing them is sometimes challenging. Also, changing the gimbal from copter to steadicam to hand-held use is not an easy thing to do on set.

Andreas is offering a nice gimbal, which will come out in the next weeks. We tried it today with a DSLR and it works great! Epic footage will be online soon (I'm not working with or for Andreas, it's just that I really liked his rig).

I'm in contact with an other company to design a completely new gimbal (same principle, but completely different design) that should solve most, if not all, existing problems. It'll (probably) be based on ALEXmos boards (nothing new there), but the design will allow you to use it with an Epic incl. a big lens (Master Primes, Coole S5i...) and a small mattebox. You will be able to adjust the rig for different camera weights and sizes without using tools. Changing the rig for different applications (handheld / steadicam / copter) will be a matter of seconds. But it wont be available soon (earliest December), so don't cancel your MoVI oders, if you need a real good solution now ;)

Also, if there's something you didn't liked in a gimbal or thought that something could be a cool feature, please write me a pm. I really want to make the first product I co-design rock!
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Sign me up!
Click to expand...

You will get the first sold unit ;)

I'll post more about the features of the gimbal later this week.

First photos will be out in five or six weeks, when the gimbal is close to being finalized, so that other companies can't copy the system before we even ship it.
 
David Kellermann said:
You will get the first sold unit ;)

I'll post more about the features of the gimbal later this week.

First photos will be out in five or six weeks, when the gimbal is close to being finalized, so that other companies can't copy the system before we even ship it.
Click to expand...

Cant wait to see but can I be #2 to get one :biggrin:

But now you tell us I want it now!!! lol

I would not show it off till you can ship them. It would get knocked off really quickly but then does not mean it will work as well or have the support if some one did.
 
David Kellermann said:
I had a very nice meeting today with Andreas Kielb from http://www.portahead.de/ , discussing what all those gimbals are missing and how they should be designed to perfectly fit an Epic. Not sure how many of you have ever used one of them, but balancing them is sometimes challenging. Also, changing the gimbal from copter to steadicam to hand-held use is not an easy thing to do on set.

Andreas is offering a nice gimbal, which will come out in the next weeks. We tried it today with a DSLR and it works great! Epic footage will be online soon (I'm not working with or for Andreas, it's just that I really liked his rig).

I'm in contact with an other company to design a completely new gimbal (same principle, but completely different design) that should solve most, if not all, existing problems. It'll (probably) be based on ALEXmos boards (nothing new there), but the design will allow you to use it with an Epic incl. a big lens (Master Primes, Coole S5i...) and a small mattebox. You will be able to adjust the rig for different camera weights and sizes without using tools. Changing the rig for different applications (handheld / steadicam / copter) will be a matter of seconds. But it wont be available soon (earliest December), so don't cancel your MoVI oders, if you need a real good solution now ;)

Also, if there's something you didn't liked in a gimbal or thought that something could be a cool feature, please write me a pm. I really want to make the first product I co-design rock!
Click to expand...

Hey David,

Looking forward to your solution. I'd suggest making it weather sealed since none of the units seem to be. This could be the first gimbal you can use in any weather without worry of failure or total destruction. It would be interesting if the setup could speed up the process of balancing. I'm really looking forward to this once it's available.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Hey David,

Looking forward to your solution. I'd suggest making it weather sealed since none of the units seem to be. This could be the first gimbal you can use in any weather without worry of failure or total destruction. It would be interesting if the setup could speed up the process of balancing. I'm really looking forward to this once it's available.
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea :thumbup1:

The movi seemed to work fine in light rain... with epic on it.
Dont know if there was problems with it later but next day seem to work fine as well.

Would the epic need some kind of small cover or jacket for rain as well, but not get in the way of the gimbal.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Hey David,

Looking forward to your solution. I'd suggest making it weather sealed since none of the units seem to be. This could be the first gimbal you can use in any weather without worry of failure or total destruction. It would be interesting if the setup could speed up the process of balancing. I'm really looking forward to this once it's available.
Click to expand...

Well, you shouldn't put it in a swimming pool, but some rain wont harm it :)

It'll be the first rig where it's not only easy to adjust the balance, but where the balancing settings are perfectly repeatable.
 
It seems like the most interesting ones to watch for flying an Epic are Defy, Portahead and BeSteady.
 
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