The restructuring of the post-production industry ...

[Neil W. Smith]

back on track ...

back on track ...

Neil, please stop prompting the mods to do their job the way you think it should be done - I've made them promise not to tell you how to run Hollywood DI ;-)

Yes, Mike should indicate who he works for - that said, Mike has been a contributor to Red User for some time now while working for 3 different employers and from my perspective he has consistently presented his personal views regardless of who was signing his paycheck. Moreover, Mike has injected much needed reality checks into threads that sorely needed them.

FWIW I think Neil has brought up some salient issues and he deserves credit for his intelligence and foresight in pursuing new modalities in the post business. I think Neil is spot on that new technologies are changing the rate at which one must evolve or perish in the marketplace.

I agree with Neil that this thread is not about unions, healthcare or any number of ancillary issues. That said, a thread about the power of producers and the lot of freelancers in the industry would be one I would read.

In any case, as one of the pioneers in the new generation of on-set/near-set services with my Road Grader van rig I have a few observations. (Yes Mike, I know they put a film lab in a railroad car decades ago, that Brian Gaffney et al built out the Creative Bridge MDL in a semi trailer, etc - tip of the hat to all).

1) There are a number of substantive benefits to doing some traditional post operations on or near set, particularly for certain projects. There are also some potholes. Figuring out the best profile for each project requires a level of understanding that some producers have, but many do not. The rapidity of the evolution of the toolsets exacerbates the confusion.

2) Technology can leverage talent and experience, but without the right people at the controls technology is like the flashing lights on the bridge of the 60's era Enterprise on Star Trek.

3) The industry (in all venues) is often the biggest impediment to rapid evolution. Entrenched entities focused on their own survival, veteran craftspeople looking to extend the viability of existing skill sets, siloing of production and post, etc. Neil's example of Kodak may fail on some specifics but I think the object lesson is spot on.

Cheers - #19

Apologies Blair ... i just got totally pissed that this thread was about to go off at a tangent to the central theme of the discussion ... and no, I didn't mean to tell the Mods how to do their job .... it's just that the signal-to-noise ratio on RU is so low we have to find a way to keep an intelligent discussion going without it getting de-railed by a bunch of irrelevant comments.

And the thing about putting your job title and company name at the bottom of posts is that RedUsers can then put your comments in context ... everyone has an agenda and of course my posts represent the hopes and aspirations of our small company - I make no bones about it ... but at least everyone knows where I'm coming from and can take my comments with a big pinch of salt if they want to.

Anyway, enough of this petty griping ... let's get back to the discussion.

1) Local 600 is now taking steps to strengthen the role of the DIT for on-set and near-set dailies work as well as their traditional camera and data wrangling responsibilities ... this will have some implications for all of us (well in the LA area anyway).

2) what is not clear is where on-set ends and near-set begins in terms of union jurisdiction and working practices ... Blair, when you park your DIT van out in the parking lot on Union gigs do they classify you as Union or non-Union?

3) Digital Dailies (whatever that encompasses) is gaining momentum .... again, I'm talking about near-set and not just on-set ... solutions from many companies (yes Mike - Technicolor as well) provide incredible processing power in a mobile form factor .... we can do things at half the price working off a cart or out of a Pelican case that were unimaginable a few years ago ... so if Producers can save a shit load of money doing things that used to be done within the sanctity of our facilities - what is to stop them doing it? ... and not just using our carts and services ... there is no rocket science involved in putting together a digital dailies lab and having your own personnel run it ... already I have DITs coming up to me wanting us to train them in Express Dailies and Resolve 9 so they can become 'on-set colorists'.

The original issue highlighted in this thread is how and in what ways the post-producton industry is evolving and changing? ... having worked in the computer industry for twenty-five years before I set up our post-house, I can tell you that we "ain't seen nothing yet" .... Hollywood TV and film production is actually behind the curve in terms of the adoption of digital technologies and new working practices ... however, once Moore's Law takes over an industry the rate of change increases exponentially.

Digital Dailies is but the tip of the ice-berg for some fundamental changes coming our way ... how to best respond to those changes and adapt to the new opportunities is really at the heart of what I'm discussing here ... your considered and relevant comments are most welcomed.

Neil

 

[Elsie N]

Apologies Blair ... i just got totally pissed that this thread was about to go off at a tangent to the central theme of the discussion ... and no, I didn't mean to tell the Mods how to do their job .... it's just that the signal-to-noise ratio on RU is so low we have to find a way to keep an intelligent discussion going without it getting de-railed by a bunch of irrelevant comments.

...

Neil

Neil, as a long time observer of threads on Reduser, they usually don't stray away from the original topic unless the thread is dead or dying. Until Blair helped revive it, this was pretty much a dead thread. My suggestion to any OPs is to embrace tangent posts and use them to keep a thread alive and in the mainstream of "New Posts".

If you want unpolluted advertising on Reduser, buy a banner.

Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Rob, your view of America is probably just as inaccurate as my view of Canada and Western Europe... which is that the population is capped at how high it can rise. Sure you have a few millionaires and even billionaires, but I see those two places as holding down the cream so it mixes with the milk a little more. I also see this country (America) as a place where cream can rise to the top. I think that is why Red Digital Cinema and Oakley came to be in America and not some other country.

But to keep this on topic, I think the post options being introduced in this thread show just how innovation can create change since creation of these ideas are not capped.

I will not further derail this thread after this post - and sorry.

But I did feel the need to point out that many cutting edge innovations in medical science were created right here in Montreal, by Montrealers. Many of them were from poor families. In the States, they likely would not have had the money to attend medical school - so we - and you - would not have access to the breakthroughs they found as they would have had to work at Starbucks or whatever instead.

Montreal is also the birthplace of 3D character innovation software, of Flame, Nuke etc (formerly owned and created by Discreet Logic in part thanks to a government grant, and again thanks to free government provided education for the founders.)

A much higher percentage of Montrealers are entrepreneurs than Americans, who in much larger numbers are employees at large corporations than us. (That's a statistical fact) So something is working right to incentivize risk taking and innovation here.

The people who did this and succeeded made lots of money, paid lost of taxes, but have more than enough money left over. Most have not moved away and have no desire to. In fact many re-invest in this city in very visible ways.

I'm not sure being as cash rich as possible is my idea of cream. To me the real cream are the people who contribute to the well being of mankind in meaningful ways, whether they are cash rich or not as a result. It's rare, if you do that, that you'll also be poor.

A society where we all take care of each other, which is what socialism is when it works well - and it does here and in Europe - promotes becoming a contributor to the collective good. Not just having a big number in the bank. Besides, what do you need more than say, a few million dollars for? How many hotel rooms can you stay in? Suits can you buy? What is the real value of more cash beyond a certain point?

I don't think that Americans are bad, but I do think they should take a good long look at how many brilliant minds in their country are being wasted by a system that keeps the poor and the working class out of access to education, or even access to role models in mixed-income neighborhoods. I know this because I spend a lot of time in the States and often travel there once a month or more.

The rich are too rich in your country, and the poor much too poor, to the point where they cannot see a way out, or even feel it's worth trying.

Maybe one of them would have found the cure for cancer by now - but we'll never know.

 

[Elsie N]

Rob, it would take a fartnight for me to name all the innovations that have sprung forth just from the minds of the people who came here from every corner of our round globe. They didn't do it in their native lands... they did it in America. Like Neil W. Smith for instance, who came to our western shore from jolly old England...

I'm certainly not rich. I scrimp and save like an Extreme Cheapskate in order to buy Red equipment. But I'll never begrudge anyone having oodles of money... as long as they spread it around and don't hoard it by living like me.

As far as finding a cure for cancer... you wouldn't have to cure it if you would just prevent it.

 

[Morgan Naman]

size is not the limiting factor. the world isn't spinning out of control, we are. everybody needs to chill. seriously.

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