The industry has finally engaged...

[Eric Lange]

if this means some new company is going to pop up and start selling high end cameras at a sensible manufacturing cost/retail price ratio, good. In the meanwhile, from where Im standing.. Red is the next best thing. fingers crossed this situation changes, then the consumer will indeed win, and so will whoever picks up the gauntlet first. My money is on Red, so far..

Agreed…

I am lucky I normally work in very unusual areas so there is not likely to be any interference from any big players (deliberately so), BUT RED does provide an opportunity for us to get into the swim and bring our “wares” to a more mainstream market. For that RED IS a good bet...

I have my fingers crossed too!

he, he.... I very much look forward to the future more expansive silicon offerings that will come from RED too, something we can really run with also

 

[Víctor Corona Silva]

Good thing my school owns a few red ones for the audiovisual production careers. I'll calm my hunger for scarlet with some reducation at the tv studio

Whoa, so all the times are gmt -6 now in red user? Does that mean the nov 3rd announcement will be at 6p.m. gmt -6?
Might need to ask Graeme.

 

[Eric Lange]

Good thing my school owns a few red ones for the audiovisual production careers. I'll calm my hunger for scarlet with some reducation at the tv studio

Whoa, so all the times are gmt -6 now in red user? Does that mean the nov 3rd announcement will be at 6p.m. gmt -6?
Might need to ask Graeme.

In NEW Mexico I am on Mountain time which is -07:00 that’s the same for US and Canada, I don’t know about Mexico, should look that one up. In my case I am close to Albuquerque only 40 minutes drive from the airport.

I should really look up where Guadalajara, Jalisco is.

That would be an amazing place to learn and get one’s reducation at the TV studio on!

Graeme IS the man! (after all)

Sooo what Victor do you have to normally use at your TV studio...especially for REDucation?

Sound like a pretty awsome set up.

 

[Jason kwan]

Hi Jim , please keep this way, i like Red because that !! !

Jason

 

[conrad gaunt]

or put another way..

I have a Red One. I rent it. Clients love it. But I believe they are expensive to buy for what they are, and can be expensive to maintain.

First person to point out Red are highly competitive, relative to Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Arri, Anton et al (companies who last took money off me in about 1998..) wins a banana, but no cigar.

Red are expensive for what they are in my mind. period. The other companies high end prices were, and still are, just silly jokes to me.. but still

The default one year warranty is a bit crap frankly, and the newly released Red Shield extended warranty seems expensive also

I think Red should back their new untested cameras with a slightly longer warranty for internal components and boards etc, not necessarily peripherals though

Lets hope Red manufacture a lot of scarlets, and sell a lot, then maybe sensible pricing can finally begin for all brain models

Lets hope a Scarlet that can take 35mm cine glass appears soon, and Reds R+D/ Licensing costs average down, and filters through to pricing

Toes crossed

 

[Eric Lange]

You have to excuse me my head is killing me…(still real migraine) just back…

Now I read better you use REDONEs (terrific).


Just distracted by the amazing imagery of the historic and cultural Centre of Guadalajara, Jalisco… I should dig up that time zone…

Looks just like the place that LACMA or the Getty would have projects in…

Give me a while to poke around, read what is in front of me etc.

I wonder if Mayan calendars ever made it to clock work? If so one would think that when you use the key it would be the wind up of the century (at least).

Moment….

 

[Eric Lange]

or put another way..

I have a Red One. I rent it. Clients love it. But I believe they are expensive to buy for what they are, and can be expensive to maintain.

First person to point out Red are highly competitive, relative to Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Arri, Anton et al (companies who last took money off me in about 1998..) wins a banana, but no cigar.

Red are expensive for what they are in my mind. period. The other companies high end prices were, and still are, just silly jokes to me.. but still

The default one year warranty is a bit crap frankly, and the newly released Red Shield extended warranty seems expensive also

I think Red should back their new untested cameras with a slightly longer warranty for internal components and boards etc, not necessarily peripherals though

Lets hope Red manufacture a lot of scarlets, and sell a lot, then maybe sensible pricing can finally begin for all brain models

Lets hope a Scarlet that can take 35mm cine glass appears soon, and Reds R+D/ Licensing costs average down, and filters through to pricing

Toes crossed

Need to really think hard about what you say...

Red ARE highly competitive, relative to Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Arri, Anton, etc.

The capability for the price point is astounding... that's why I'm here and no-where else right now!

Big Time!


BUT moreover...

That indeed would be a sensible vision that you describe that puts the customer "in the frame"... or centre stage...

I don't think the “other guys” are thinking that way, at all...


Obsolescence obsolete concept is VERY powerful and is one of the "keys" I have used to get folks to back and get on the RED bus.


I think Everybody feels this, and everybody is being pulled in that should be on the RED bus (I think). Hopefully (and I don't think) my leg is being pulled too much... I do have faith in RED especially as they have a long term view that aims to build a real legacy. (In my opinion). Short term gains are not the answer but to build a solid (global foundation) for the future is (I think). That takes a lot of people and a lot of good will and a sustained follow through... rather than just fps/k and price point. That is the REAL VALUE.. people not K.


I think a lot of people are missing the point... its not the specs its the people.... So on reflection I think for me that is a more honest (thought) than just a clinical capability. But maaaan the capability. I think as I said before I don't care if the new offerings are large match boxes with mice and rubber bands and a lens baby... The basic will, vision and legacy is far more valuable especially if the young are allowed to "play". That's the best way to learn.

I think this sentiment comes through very much with Evan and LLiam... (I feel that very much, so I'm really looking forwrd to what they want to do with RED systems and really run... a lot of really worthwhile philnathropic/cultural applications out there for using RED systems, beyond making the next best Horror flick (which is OK too).


E

I wonder about the possibility of taking the RED ONES out of circulation and donating them on mass to good causes and teaching institutions all over the globe??? OR really its about putting new and affordable and reliable tools into the hands of everyone so it makes sense therefore to NOT have the REDONES filter to the film schools. Better a Scarlet than an old Legacy Product RED One.

Might be cool to one day see REDOnes responsible recycled as E-waste, its a strange idea but digital turn over is at an alarming rate and the concept of through the line upgradability makes sense too. Much more efficient, and everybody’s investment is protected and also seems to be a much less wasteful or disposable way of going about things.

If one was feeling environmentally friendly then that might be a better way to go. Much less e-waste. Anyway I digress...

BUT... of course that means there will need to be a New REDONE (which frankly has to be...)... in an EPIC style form factor...

 

[Evan Starkey]

[Air fare hotels etc…, we are very budget conscious and try to squeeze out every last piece of usefulness out of every dollar [HW or SW dev], that’s why I’m a little rooted to the spot and will watch “remotely” on the day and the time I think.]

Im not going ether Quantas wont let me take my chickens on the plane so forget it

 

[Eric Lange]

Im not going ether Quantas wont let me take my chickens on the plane so forget it

I have Buff orpingtons, and used to have black rocks in the UK...( a truly indestructible chicken)...

So Evan, what kind of chickens do well in Tasmania...?

Yup so I do have a ranch... It is rather odd that you can see the animals I have from the air frozen in time on the google earth maps they look like rice grains or bacteria. If you have a lot of animals (we have mainly) horses it can be concern when one leaves as common sense tends to leave the yard (when I go); but I do have a good stable hand that I am helping him out and get his feet back on the ground. So he's going to community college right now; so thankfully the Ranch can be taken care of for a few weeks and people can look in on the GG's. It always a worry that some four legged critter may get into trouble but I have people that can cover for me.

If I do move to another location I can take my GG's with me. A bit like you... I have a double life and train horses, to pay for my the other half of my horsey habit, so I have to get up usually at 4.30 to 5 am to fit it all in.

I imagine having a Winery/vinyard is quite a demanding use of your time but I guess you have the holidays.


What did you work on in the UK? (BTW)?

That still on your avatar looks very intriguing too Almost "hobbity"

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Eric Lange]

Good thing my school owns a few red ones for the audiovisual production careers. I'll calm my hunger for scarlet with some reducation at the tv studio

Whoa, so all the times are gmt -6 now in red user? Does that mean the nov 3rd announcement will be at 6p.m. gmt -6?
Might need to ask Graeme.

Not sure about that I find that my times displayed on screen are of my own local time zone..., so RED is on PST and I'm on Mountain time, Guadalajara, Jalisco is on CST, which is -6...relative to GMT. So it seems there is sort of embedded part of an application that determines the local time from your host computer....

I am on -07.00 relative to GMT and red is on GMT -08.00,

So if the announcement is 6pm PT then it will be 4pm for you… I don’t think there are time changes etc. but might want to make sure….

Can anyone confirm that????

I don’t want to give out bad info,

Might be a good idea to synchronize you computer’s clock to RED for the announcement (perhaps) I’m not sure that mine is well synchronized…timing may be an issue (who knows).

Eric

SO VICTOR..WHAT TIME DOES IT SAY ON YOUR LAST REDPOST?
Right now I am on 10.42 ish, you are an hour behind me so what does your reduser interface say what time it is?

That would be bad to miss the event and I have this feeling that being sharply on time will be an issue.

Thanks to Quest out here my internet connection is pretty dodgy at best , may need to go to Starbucks or something on the time/day... Our connection is pretty knarly..


This "save the date color it Scarlet" Apple playbook thing might be an issue, I think given that they have projectors... to display info, etc. The folks at the event and "out here" on REDUSER the day will be expected to do something... other than fill tons of order, So hopefully my group will be ordering assuming the obvious...

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

it's funny/crazy to think about how Red is literally 2 generations ahead of every other major company. These guys are playing catchup to the MX still, some are playing catchup to the Epic (like the Alexa) yet Red is already developing the Dragon/Monstros which will put them even further ahead by a generation of sensors.

This Canon camera that's being announced. It's announced now and presumably released next year, that means it's going to be competing against Monstro/Dragon...LOL R.I.P. Canon

 

[Eric Lange]

With REDOnes possibly being taken out of circulation it is possible to have a 3k solution, then the EPIC 5k solution. It doesn’t have to scale linearly and then later on (if need be) a 4k solution could be introduced.

This is where I see the EPIC-s coming about… or at least the idea behind it.

It may not matter for the time being that a new 4k instrument is not on the table?

I think the points made by Conrad seem very sound indeed.

 

[Eric Lange]

it's funny/crazy to think about how Red is literally 2 generations ahead of every other major company. These guys are playing catchup to the MX still, some are playing catchup to the Epic (like the Alexa) yet Red is already developing the Dragon/Monstros which will put them even further ahead by a generation of sensors.

This Canon camera that's being announced. It's announced now and presumably released next year, that means it's going to be competing against Monstro/Dragon...LOL R.I.P. Canon

"it's funny/crazy to think about how Red is literally 2 generations ahead of every other major company"; that's no joke is it?


"yet Red is already developing the Dragon/Monstros which will put them even further ahead by a generation of sensors"

These guys are playing catchup to the MX still, some are playing catchup to the Epic (like the Alexa No kidding!



That is an amazing achievement, I think once that’s in the bag I see almost no-hope that the others will match it, in terms of number of K (the dreaded K) …(as you say R.I.P)

I think the others will just stop… they won’t see a need, where as it seems that The RED team and Jim have vision or passion beyond a 4k measured resolution as a notional psychovisual requirement.

The other guys don't build stuff that is for photography or the passsion of photographic applications...So indeed RED is different from all other perspectives that are being offered by other companies.

The things that they (RED) may have on the drawing board or may be playing with must be amazing.

That would be a beautiful job to put these higher end imagers to good use. We certainly have applications for the biggest sensors, business, budget and business model willing (one day sooner rather than later I hope).

I remember Jim posted a long time ago a concept rendering of 21K camera or some such that had a massive format, and used I believe a Rodenstock looking lens on it. That really stuck in my mind, I wonder if that’s something he will get to in his retirement… or sooner?

E

So is dragon/ monstro set to be...?...announced on the day I assume so all togther that is a huge huge huge day for RED. That IS a phenomenal lauch and set of Announcements and we haven’t even talked about the other major super important goodies, Laser projector and RED ray…RED Primes + possibly new lenses etc.


We go insane at this end..., but it must be like working for the space program at RED, as the range and variety of capabilities being brought fourth must seem almost surreal or magic (all be it hard won); it must be that every morning you wake up look in the mirror and say I get to do this,... and pinch yourself a couple of times just to make sure this is all real.

 

[Dory Breaux]

The best part is that the underdogs are who are really setting the bar.

 

[Evan Starkey]

What did you work on in the UK? (BTW)?

That still on your avatar looks very intriguing too Almost "hobbity"

Cheers,

Eric

Just wedding / studio bread & butter stuff

avatar was a film test up a near mountain man fern forest which i plan do again once i get scarlet....tho getting my friends to help cart lights generators and smoke machines may prove a chalenge ....its an awesome spot dont watch Jurassic park then go there its a freaky place.

Your right we have lots to talk about ill msg you my email

Ev

 

[Marc Wielage]

It will be interesting once there's 4K cameras available from a half-dozen different manufacturers, all at the same time. My fear is that some will try to compete mainly on price, which won't be good for anybody.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Eric, your intellect and pace of thought literally blows me a way. So many very very clever people on REDuser.
It really is a privilege to hang out with you all. A big thanks to Jim, Jarred and all of RED for fostering such a fantastic forum.

Best
Lliam

 

[Eric Lange]

or put another way..

I have a Red One. I rent it. Clients love it. But I believe they are expensive to buy for what they are, and can be expensive to maintain.

First person to point out Red are highly competitive, relative to Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Arri, Anton et al (companies who last took money off me in about 1998..) wins a banana, but no cigar.

Red are expensive for what they are in my mind. period. The other companies high end prices were, and still are, just silly jokes to me.. but still

The default one year warranty is a bit crap frankly, and the newly released Red Shield extended warranty seems expensive also

I think Red should back their new untested cameras with a slightly longer warranty for internal components and boards etc, not necessarily peripherals though

Lets hope Red manufacture a lot of scarlets, and sell a lot, then maybe sensible pricing can finally begin for all brain models

Lets hope a Scarlet that can take 35mm cine glass appears soon, and Reds R+D/ Licensing costs average down, and filters through to pricing

Toes crossed

Dude, now that I am more awake...

What you offer for rental is the deal of the century base price 200 Quid a day!!! A rental house that has the student in mind....Talk about accesibility....my head is a little clearer today...Conrad that's super impressive, YOU are the hero...

That's amazing...

I really should make more effort to find out what people are doing, i.e. their back story.

E

Maybe when I go to the Uk (next time) we should have a chat...

 

[Eric Lange]

Eric, your intellect and pace of thought literally blows me a way. So many very very clever people on REDuser.
It really is a privilege to hang out with you all. A big thanks to Jim, Jarred and all of RED for fostering such a fantastic forum.

Best
Lliam

LIiam… I saw you got the RED post blues last time, I was going to post back to you and say don’t worry I’m sure you will wake up tomorrow all bright eyed and bush tailed…

I cannot take your praise…its NOT me…

Its

Todd Brisson, Walid, its Rob, its Victor, its drew, its Conrad, its Pete, and Even.. and and Lliam too.

I think this is a good case study of what an “environment” as such can draw out of someone.

I sense a sort of proof of concept for a “culture” shift in REDUSER.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a Members program was introduced….

I don’t know like $1000/year down… (maybe breaks for academic/non-profit members) or not…

The idea might be to separate “fan-boy” styled stroking and random “gibbling” from coherent and focused thinking, as an online environment (there’s a concept). I know that there was talk of Jim “leaving” REDUSER, at some point… It makes sense. The way it is now is nearly unsustainable. With the influx of much broader programs and a far larger number of users REDUSER become a mathematically intractable problem, i.e. people will not be able to get the information they need. I see much more tiered access and better structured resources in the near future as well as a slight culture shift and change in relationship between Jim Jannard and REDUSER forum. I don’t know how he sleeps at night.. my brain would be full of the “chatter” of a million posts… how do you not go insane??? (As we have demonstrated rather well…he, he).

Basically distilled… A good environment can bring out the best in people… How you measure or determine meritocratic status would be an interesting problem. Like the Grinch I have a wonderfull and awful idea, a wonderfully awful idea…

I guess JUST like a MEMBERS only club it would be by INVITATION ONLY. I.e. a certain number of members would recommend other members. That would be a terrific solution to the problem. It would substantially raise the quality of “thinking” and posting. The idea is that in the “member’s section” you have to be a member to post, but its open for everybody to read…? So it’s more about people who are doing things “networking” with others to share expertise and knowhow and perhaps start really good projects together. I have to admit that’s how I sort of originally hoped that Reduser would be… but not enough of that has happened. I think it takes a critical tipping point to achieve that; I think the Scarlet numbers out there will indeed enable that type of usefully-networked culture to emerge. By having a MEMBERS program then people who really need to bounce stuff off each other and start something new can. It’s a way of filtering and bringing much needed focus. I would like to see more of that, than a weird “relationship” with hundred’s of fan boys telling Jim how brilliant he is (he knows… so it’s not much value to him perhaps).

The opinion of your peers is much more valuable if there is real thinking, soul and doing that is behind that opinion. An understanding of the tech is important but over focusing on techy features can be rather destructive to more valuable (project based) higher level thinking.

Something has to be done…


My 3 cents…

Eric

 

[David Dennis]

"Three of a kind beats a pair..."

(interesting material we've seen many times now as people repeat it snipped).

Well, I don't think there's any way in the world RED would make a 2K camera.

Camera one is probably the base Scarlet Fixed with a 3K image sensor, around $8k complete excluding media.

Camera two would be the Scarlet interchangeable with 3K.

Camera three would be the replacement for EPIC-S. 4K, S35, maximum frame rate 60fps. His original price point was about $20k-25k minimally complete. (The $12k price was for the brain alone).

Toughest to focus on is Camera Three. Seems like it offers a bit too much compared to much more expensive EPIC-X. But Jim has promised us something revolutionary and it seems unlikely to be Scarlet 3K since we've known the basic specs on it for quite a while.

But perhaps finally making it available after all these years of development is revolutionary?

Only two days to find out ...

D