The industry has finally engaged...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jim is not trapped; he's having fun, which is all we're doing here. He throws out these bones, and we play with them while we wait for the products to appear. And when they do appear, they are amazing. His only caution is the budget minded buyers who fantasize what Red can deliver for under $10 K. When you start attaching an imaginary price tag to the incredible technical innovations going on at Red, it can get a little weird, which is what I believe he is trying to head off in the Expectations thread.

I don't think too many will be disappointed, come thursday. Although, I do suspect many are in for a reality-check... Even after Jim's warnings of unrealistic expectations. Some of the speculation I've been reading is totally out there...

 

[Arun R]

When ever i come to visit this site at first i check how many people checked Recon as usual once again i logged in & saw the same excitement in everyone which am watching from last 4 years, not something important news about upcoming cameras , projectors or any new technology, yeah the change is price only raising up, & some old members are vanished so better i log in on coming November 3rd only, its my wish if we reduce talk & do or work more to show what is RED what is Scarlet series.....

Best of luck Jimm

 

[Ryan Farnes]

Hey Ryan,

Shouldn't you put that into perspective when pulling quotes and what they reference? Scarlet's original specs were amazing, and still are, compared to what was and what is currently on the market (personally, RAW is the single biggest feature for me, it totally sells me on RED... the resolution, HDRx, frame rates, etc, etc don't hurt either . And even then, Scarlet got more features and more robust as time went on (a good thing) and so the price has also increased (a not so good thing to some). Not surprised by that.

I think you're leaving out some very important context in your consideration... you need to look at the timeline for those quotes, what they reference (in terms of Scarlet's features/price) and then also what others ended up guesstimating.

Either way I pumped to see what RED and Canon puts out... because either way, it is good for us (customers).

The response was for Jim. If the reference or context is unclear, the quote links through.

Just pointing out the nature of RECON. Jim stirs the pot, then looks in and wonders why things are moving. :smile:

Soaring rhetoric is matched by soaring expectations.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

I've spent about three hours reading through all the latest posts. It's insane. And so clearly am I. And so is Eric, and possibly his Bieber fan wife too

Conclusions:

Canon is finally offering something better than 1080p.
But everyone knows Scarlet will be better.
Except - Josh Snyder - he likes canon.
Jim knows how to play poker.
We know how to speculate.
Some people are so insane they actually get scared RED's lowest price point camera will threaten the worlds leading camera - which just may have been possible, if anyone but RED had happened to have made that camera.
Some people should ironically rush out to watch contagion to appease their fears - which is certainly a unique take on watching Mr Soderbergh's film. (MX reference)
There is a now a socio economic class war on over Scarlet rivalled only by the previous great war of the sensors.
More tech support is coming. Which is just awesome. Australia service centre please?? Pretty please? Reducation?

And the only thing yet again that I can 100% say that I know to be true is. People are crazy. Scarlet will be awesome. And I have spent far too much time on REDuser again.

Oh, and Blackadder rules.

Best Wishes all
Lliam

 

[Steve Johnson]

I don't think too many will be disappointed, come thursday. Although, I do suspect many are in for a reality-check... Even after Jim's warnings of unrealistic expectations. Some of the speculation I've been reading is totally out there...

I agree Jeff - there will be a huge reality check happening at numerous points around the world!

 

[Eric Lange]

I've spent about three hours reading through all the latest posts. It's insane. And so clearly am I. And so is Eric, and possibly his Bieber fan wife too

Conclusions:

Canon is finally offering something better than 1080p.
But everyone knows Scarlet will be better.
Except - Josh Snyder - he likes canon.
Jim knows how to play poker.
We know how to speculate.
Some people are so insane they actually get scared RED's lowest price point camera will threaten the worlds leading camera - which just may have been possible, if anyone but RED had happened to have made that camera.
Some people should ironically rush out to watch contagion to appease their fears - which is certainly a unique take on watching Mr Soderbergh's film.
There is a now a socio economic class war on over Scarlet rivalled only by the previous great war of the sensors.
More tech support is coming. Which is just awesome. Australia service centre please?? Pretty please? Reducation?

And the only thing yet again that I can 100% say that I know to be true is. People are crazy. Scarlet will be awesome. And I have spent far too much time on REDuser again.

Oh, and Blackadder rules.

Best Wishes all
Lliam

Yes I am (temporarily) insane…

BTW she is NO Bieber fan (clue…) I think the only way I will make her RED fan is if I bring home the bacon incorporating RED systems (perhaps). It may be a divided household for a bit…

But I would say expect big, but a new deal or industry announcement that has big implications for a bigger plan than a 3k B-camera or three new cameras that comprise Scarlet. Scarlet is big news but the biggest in RED’s history? I know Jim does hype… but that would be a fairly substantial over-hype even by Jim’s standards…

Or not.

Back to my padded cell…(don’t let me out) until Nov 4th…

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I really don't get the confusion around this one. Clues have a context, and given that, the meaning is clear.

The thread is about the competition engaging the 4K battle. "2 pair" is a way of referring to the two pairs of pixels the Canon camera bins to meet the rumored spec: 4K capture, 2K recording.

In that context, "3 of a kind" is 3K, RED's newest offering. Though it falls short of 4K, it still beats 2 pair.

Scarlet 3K REDCODE RAW capture beats Canon 4K-->2K recorded in whatever RGB codec they are using. (Of course this is apples and oranges since the Canon camera will surely be APS or FF35). Canon may have a 4K recording option in the works, and it seems they would, but maybe that comes later - as a $10+K-ish frankenbox, or a completely different camera.

You nailed it.

 

[Gavin Benjamin]

Hey Jim, I bet you four of a kind beats three of a kind.

lol we already have that tho

 

[Trevor Adams]

http://reduser.net/forum/member.php?10-JannardLOL Jim,

I love reading your posts. Your such a Sh$t disturber. Makes me smile every time. Keep it up, Visionary's are far to rare in this world.

 

[Michael Chase Gordon]

Originally Posted by Jannard
I'm betting that 3 of a kind beats 2 pair.


My guess is we will see (1) Scarlet Fixed 2/3rds (2) Scarlet Interchangeable 2/3rds and (3) Scarlet Full Frame Interchangeable. All will be 4k resolution, 120 FPS and they will have a lower price and wont have as many features as the Red One MX therefore keeping a happy co-existing family of cameras

 

[Patrick Grossien]

The worldwide support network for RED products is growing... We now have an entire dedicated team working with the best service facilities across the globe to open up service centers. 2012 will be a big year for all our foreign customers seeking for more immediate support.

Woooohooo!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Such fun times ahed...

 

[Scott Miller]

I've spent about three hours reading through all the latest posts. It's insane. And so clearly am I. And so is Eric, and possibly his Bieber fan wife too

Conclusions:

Canon is finally offering something better than 1080p.
But everyone knows Scarlet will be better.
Except - Josh Snyder - he likes canon.
Jim knows how to play poker.
We know how to speculate.
Some people are so insane they actually get scared RED's lowest price point camera will threaten the worlds leading camera - which just may have been possible, if anyone but RED had happened to have made that camera.
Some people should ironically rush out to watch contagion to appease their fears - which is certainly a unique take on watching Mr Soderbergh's film.
There is a now a socio economic class war on over Scarlet rivalled only by the previous great war of the sensors.
More tech support is coming. Which is just awesome. Australia service centre please?? Pretty please? Reducation?

And the only thing yet again that I can 100% say that I know to be true is. People are crazy. Scarlet will be awesome. And I have spent far too much time on REDuser again.

Oh, and Blackadder rules.

Best Wishes all
Lliam

That sir, was brilliant!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and yes, Blackadder does in fact rule.

That is all, you may now return to your previous program of insanity already in progress :cheers2:

 

[Paul Ellington]

I've spent about three hours reading through all the latest posts. It's insane. And so clearly am I. And so is Eric, and possibly his Bieber fan wife too

Conclusions:

Canon is finally offering something better than 1080p.
But everyone knows Scarlet will be better.
Except - Josh Snyder - he likes canon.
Jim knows how to play poker.
We know how to speculate.
Some people are so insane they actually get scared RED's lowest price point camera will threaten the worlds leading camera - which just may have been possible, if anyone but RED had happened to have made that camera.
Some people should ironically rush out to watch contagion to appease their fears - which is certainly a unique take on watching Mr Soderbergh's film.
There is a now a socio economic class war on over Scarlet rivalled only by the previous great war of the sensors.
More tech support is coming. Which is just awesome. Australia service centre please?? Pretty please? Reducation?

And the only thing yet again that I can 100% say that I know to be true is. People are crazy. Scarlet will be awesome. And I have spent far too much time on REDuser again.

Oh, and Blackadder rules.

Best Wishes all
Lliam

Liam, you are a breath of fresh air, and you know how us cinematographers get after 16 hours on set.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I've spent about three hours reading through all the latest posts. It's insane. And so clearly am I. And so is Eric, and possibly his Bieber fan wife too

Conclusions:

Canon is finally offering something better than 1080p.
But everyone knows Scarlet will be better.
Except - Josh Snyder - he likes canon.
Jim knows how to play poker.
We know how to speculate.
Some people are so insane they actually get scared RED's lowest price point camera will threaten the worlds leading camera - which just may have been possible, if anyone but RED had happened to have made that camera.
Some people should ironically rush out to watch contagion to appease their fears - which is certainly a unique take on watching Mr Soderbergh's film.
There is a now a socio economic class war on over Scarlet rivalled only by the previous great war of the sensors.
More tech support is coming. Which is just awesome. Australia service centre please?? Pretty please? Reducation?

And the only thing yet again that I can 100% say that I know to be true is. People are crazy. Scarlet will be awesome. And I have spent far too much time on REDuser again.

Oh, and Blackadder rules.

Best Wishes all
Lliam

I would NOT play poker with Jim.

Or you!

Jim is having fun... and maybe drawing straight with crooked lines at times!


Mike

 

[Todd Brisson]

"Three of a kind beats a pair..."

Well, at first I thought Jim was flaunting 3K rez (which I would be more than happy with) vs. 2K.

BUT - If memory serves, Canon is actually expected to launch a PL mount pro cam along with an EOS branded EF mount model... a pair. It may also be capable of 4K capture, which would tend to nullify my first impression of a straight-up resolution comparison.

So now I'm starting to think there may be THREE versions of Scarlet about to be launched, with perhaps an in-your-face upgrade path.

Think about it from a business perspective, if one had a workflow capable of dominating the industry, why not offer a crippled Scarlet in 2K to compete in the entry level Pro/DSLR realm just to extend red code to the masses ($4-$6K entry).

Then offer the original roadmap Scarlet with 3K and overcrank capability ($7-$8K entry). Then round it off with a crippled S35 camera in 3K that enjoys the benefits of APS-C, without cannabalizing the EPIC's flagship position and price premium ($10-15K entry).

I know 4K is the future, blah blah blah, but if you really want to capture market share TODAY, it makes sense to first extend the workflow to as many customers as possible and meet their needs at a price point that they can handle TODAY. Then let THEM choose what they want to compromise in order to "get in the game."

I will cede that a different business model is entirely likely, because Red seems very much set against crippling capabilities and I respect that. We all hate Panasonic, Sony and Canon for perpetuating this type of behavior on their prosumer products, but when done for the purpose of expanding the workflow into a larger marketplace I think it would be justified. It takes a generational investment in order to displace competitors like ARRI, Sony, Panny and now Canon.

Making this RED gear accessible to the future film maker will move the RED workflow into the position of THE production standard.

Apple succeeded in doing it with iPods and iPads and as a result they inherit more Mac users. Why wouldn't a company want to emulate that model?

 

[Eric Lange]

"Three of a kind beats a pair..."

Well, at first I thought Jim was flaunting 3K rez (which I would be more than happy with) vs. 2K.

BUT - If memory serves, Canon is actually expected to launch a PL mount pro cam along with an EOS branded EF mount model... a pair. It may also be capable of 4K capture, which would tend to nullify my first impression of a straight-up resolution comparison.

So now I'm starting to think there may be THREE versions of Scarlet about to be launched, with perhaps an in-your-face upgrade path.

Think about it from a business perspective, if one had a workflow capable of dominating the industry, why not offer a crippled Scarlet in 2K to compete in the entry level Pro/DSLR realm just to extend red code to the masses ($4-$6K entry).

Then offer the original roadmap Scarlet with 3K and overcrank capability ($7-$8K entry). Then round it off with a crippled S35 camera in 3K that enjoys the benefits of APS-C, without cannabalizing the EPIC's flagship position and price premium ($10-15K entry).

I know 4K is the future, blah blah blah, but if you really want to capture market share TODAY, it makes sense to first extend the workflow to as many customers as possible and meet their needs at a price point that they can handle TODAY. Then let THEM choose what they want to compromise in order to "get in the game."

I will cede that a different business model is entirely likely, because Red seems very much set against crippling capabilities and I respect that. We all hate Panasonic, Sony and Canon for perpetuating this type of behavior on their prosumer products, but when done for the purpose of expanding the workflow into a larger marketplace I think it would be justified. It takes a generational investment in order to displace competitors like ARRI, Sony, Panny and now Canon.Making this RED gear accessible to the future film maker will move the RED workflow into the position of THE production standard.

Apple succeeded in doing it with iPods and iPads and as a result they inherit more Mac users. Why wouldn't a company want to emulate that model?

Yes

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

"Three of a kind beats a pair..."

Well, at first I thought Jim was flaunting 3K rez (which I would be more than happy with) vs. 2K.

BUT - If memory serves, Canon is actually expected to launch a PL mount pro cam along with an EOS branded EF mount model... a pair. It may also be capable of 4K capture, which would tend to nullify my first impression of a straight-up resolution comparison.

So now I'm starting to think there may be THREE versions of Scarlet about to be launched, with perhaps an in-your-face upgrade path.

Think about it from a business perspective, if one had a workflow capable of dominating the industry, why not offer a crippled Scarlet in 2K to compete in the entry level Pro/DSLR realm just to extend red code to the masses ($4-$6K entry).

Then offer the original roadmap Scarlet with 3K and overcrank capability ($7-$8K entry). Then round it off with a crippled S35 camera in 3K that enjoys the benefits of APS-C, without cannabalizing the EPIC's flagship position and price premium ($10-15K entry).

I know 4K is the future, blah blah blah, but if you really want to capture market share TODAY, it makes sense to first extend the workflow to as many customers as possible and meet their needs at a price point that they can handle TODAY. Then let THEM choose what they want to compromise in order to "get in the game."

I will cede that a different business model is entirely likely, because Red seems very much set against crippling capabilities and I respect that. We all hate Panasonic, Sony and Canon for perpetuating this type of behavior on their prosumer products, but when done for the purpose of expanding the workflow into a larger marketplace I think it would be justified. It takes a generational investment in order to displace competitors like ARRI, Sony, Panny and now Canon.

Making this RED gear accessible to the future film maker will move the RED workflow into the position of THE production standard.

Apple succeeded in doing it with iPods and iPads and as a result they inherit more Mac users. Why wouldn't a company want to emulate that model?

The words "crippled" and "RED" do not jive. And APPLE is not a company to emulate if you are building a PRO company.

 

[Ivan McCullough]

"Three of a kind beats a pair..."

Well, at first I thought Jim was flaunting 3K rez (which I would be more than happy with) vs. 2K.

BUT - If memory serves, Canon is actually expected to launch a PL mount pro cam along with an EOS branded EF mount model... a pair. It may also be capable of 4K capture, which would tend to nullify my first impression of a straight-up resolution comparison.

So now I'm starting to think there may be THREE versions of Scarlet about to be launched, with perhaps an in-your-face upgrade path.

Think about it from a business perspective, if one had a workflow capable of dominating the industry, why not offer a crippled Scarlet in 2K to compete in the entry level Pro/DSLR realm just to extend red code to the masses ($4-$6K entry).

Then offer the original roadmap Scarlet with 3K and overcrank capability ($7-$8K entry). Then round it off with a crippled S35 camera in 3K that enjoys the benefits of APS-C, without cannabalizing the EPIC's flagship position and price premium ($10-15K entry).

I know 4K is the future, blah blah blah, but if you really want to capture market share TODAY, it makes sense to first extend the workflow to as many customers as possible and meet their needs at a price point that they can handle TODAY. Then let THEM choose what they want to compromise in order to "get in the game."

I will cede that a different business model is entirely likely, because Red seems very much set against crippling capabilities and I respect that. We all hate Panasonic, Sony and Canon for perpetuating this type of behavior on their prosumer products, but when done for the purpose of expanding the workflow into a larger marketplace I think it would be justified. It takes a generational investment in order to displace competitors like ARRI, Sony, Panny and now Canon.

Making this RED gear accessible to the future film maker will move the RED workflow into the position of THE production standard.

Apple succeeded in doing it with iPods and iPads and as a result they inherit more Mac users. Why wouldn't a company want to emulate that model?

I think you may be right about 3 versions of scarlet but not those configurations. 2k...no way, that means either new sensor tech (not enough time or will at RED for this) or line skipping/downsampling and RED have said they will not go this route. Ditto for s35 at 3k. I think it is more likely to find an MX 4K scarlet than s35 at 3K
and I do not think that is likely until stage 4 is in full swing and Dragon upgrades are happening.

 

[Eric Lange]

Fundamentally Scarlet (new program) plus three other new programs… These other “programs” are not so device centric but are “programs” that are enabling perhaps in significant ways.
That would be the biggest launch in RED history…three new programs + Scarlet?