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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Gentlemen,

I've been sent over from another thread as it's been suggested that you may have some ideas on something I need; a way of controlling the camera in extreme (but not underwater) environments. So, cutting and pasting:

The only thing I want, but don't have, is what I've asked for repeatedly; a 'dumb' but easy to use control box. A dumb Redmote, if you like. Not a mess of frickin dials and unlabeled buttons and options and screens, a decent sized box with decent sized analogue KNOBS, that you can operate wearing heavy gloves, VERY quickly

Six nice big analogue knobs labeled FPS, SHUTTER, IRIS, ISO, L LEVEL, R LEVEL. Plus three buttons - record, focus check, and exposure check - an exposure check that works the way God and Mark Pederson intended, always showing the RAW exposure. That takes care of 90% of everything I have to use during most docu-style shoots.

(FPS should have a lock - push & turn to change it from 23.98. Hell, maybe they should ALL have push & turn locks)

Between touchscreen, Redmote, and side handle, we have several options to control the camera. But there are extreme shootings situations, which I fairly often get into, where none of then are suitable - such as the bottom of a volcano next to a lake of boiling lava :) I love RED but I HATE that there are no good options for simple analogue mechanical-style control of the basic functions. I'm seriously tempted to butcher a Redmote and try to build my own.

I've seen the kind of thing that cones with Deep Dragon, for instance, and that's exactly what I DON'T want - a standard Redmote in a waterproof case. I want a dumb box with big labelled single-function knobs and button for the basic controls, as described above, and nothing else. No display needed; I look at the EVF or LCD and see the effect of the knob I'm turning there.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Gentlemen,

I've been sent over from another thread as it's been suggested that you may have some ideas on something I need; a way of controlling the camera in extreme (but not underwater) environments. So, cutting and pasting:

The only thing I want, but don't have, is what I've asked for repeatedly; a 'dumb' but easy to use control box. A dumb Redmote, if you like. Not a mess of frickin dials and unlabeled buttons and options and screens, a decent sized box with decent sized analogue KNOBS, that you can operate wearing heavy gloves, VERY quickly

Six nice big analogue knobs labeled FPS, SHUTTER, IRIS, ISO, L LEVEL, R LEVEL. Plus three buttons - record, focus check, and exposure check - an exposure check that works the way God and Mark Pederson intended, always showing the RAW exposure. That takes care of 90% of everything I have to use during most docu-style shoots.

(FPS should have a lock - push & turn to change it from 23.98. Hell, maybe they should ALL have push & turn locks)

Between touchscreen, Redmote, and side handle, we have several options to control the camera. But there are extreme shootings situations, which I fairly often get into, where none of then are suitable - such as the bottom of a volcano next to a lake of boiling lava :) I love RED but I HATE that there are no good options for simple analogue mechanical-style control of the basic functions. I'm seriously tempted to butcher a Redmote and try to build my own.

I've seen the kind of thing that cones with Deep Dragon, for instance, and that's exactly what I DON'T want - a standard Redmote in a waterproof case. I want a dumb box with big labelled single-function knobs and button for the basic controls, as described above, and nothing else. No display needed; I look at the EVF or LCD and see the effect of the knob I'm turning there.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mike
Click to expand...


Mike:

I know what you want - my wife is a firefighter (actually just promoted to division chief today! - and first woman chief in history of department), oldest daughter has been fire inspector for the seminoles for several years, stepson is a firefighter for broward county and youngest daughter just hired by Ft. Lauderdale fire - so I'm surrounded by firefighters and know that you need some big buttons and knobs to operate with those gloves on.

Basically, you want something like the circuit board we made to control birger mount (see picture) - it had onboard buttons but also had the connector blocks to allow attaching to external switches which could be any size configuration you wanted. The board simply sends RS-232 commands to the mount or for the epic it would send control commands to the camera.

However, Not to be too harsh, but red has really let us down on this. We have been told numerous times in various threads that control through ethernet or RS232 would be implemented but when I, Jacek and others have asked, the info was never forthcoming. Even though I have friends that are very good at it, I don't like reverse engineering other people's stuff particularly if they say the answers are coming - so never got around to it. I believe Aquatica/Amphibico reverse engineered it for the Rouge so you may want to talk to them. Tom Hamilton is originally from Montreal, goes there frequently, and has worked with them on the rouge so may be a good liaison.

It that doesn't go anywhere, let's talk and maybe we can fund having my engineer look into it.



Edit, PS Looks like Tom just recommended me while I was typing recommending him so we may be in an endless loop :-) Anyway, see if there is anything there with Amphibico as they have done the work on the commands themselves. Also I would be willing to pay a license fee for the info if it wasn't too steep.
 

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Hey Mike,

Have been following the volcano work on your thread, that is some very bitchin' stuff, big congrats there. You are one serious adrenalin junkie my friend, if you ever need a relaxing break from that, come with us and see the big sharks up close and personal :-)

The guy that may be able to help you is Mike Hastings, he has built housings for NASA, he is pretty handy with custom jobs for tough assignments, PM him with your requirements, one of his posts is just a couple above here.
 
Folks, it turns out that what I need, if I am going to roll my own, is the camera control and monitoring SDK:

https://www.red.com/developers

I've been told it should work, if I build something that sends compliant control protocol signals to the gigabit ethernet port on the Epic. I just signed an agreement and NDA on the SDK :)

So watch this space… patiently!

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Folks, it turns out that what I need, if I am going to roll my own, is the camera control and monitoring SDK:

https://www.red.com/developers

I've been told it should work, if I build something that sends compliant control protocol signals to the gigabit ethernet port on the Epic. I just signed an agreement and NDA on the SDK :)

So watch this space… patiently!

Mike
Click to expand...

thanks for the tip Mike, I just downloaded the application too.

Do you know if it is only through the ethernet or also through the RS 232?
 
Michael Hastings said:
thanks for the tip Mike, I just downloaded the application too.

Do you know if it is only through the ethernet or also through the RS 232?
Click to expand...

I believe I was told it's ethernet only. Haven't got access to the material yet; paperwork done, just waiting for RDC to send me the link or whatever!

Mike
 
Tech / Lens decision time:

Using Epic X / 5K - in any one of its 5k formats- which lens would you choose and why?
I am looking for greatest angle of coverage and close focus.

#1 Zeiss Distagon 15mm (if so what is the angle coverage in 5K without vignetting ?)
#2 Nikon 10-24 (if so - what mm would you use to avoid vignetting?)
#3 other?

Price and quality have been discussed and I have asked a few of you off line regarding these two options.
I just upgraded to Epic X and will now be requiring greater coverage -
I have the Tokina 10-17 - has worked well for me but time to get better glass.

Your opinions welcome....

Thx MH
 
Mauricio: pretty danged hard to beat the Tokina 10-17 in my opinion for coverage and how sharp it is....You would be hard pressed to find a real contender. Is there a reason you think you need to find better glass than 10-17 or perhaps just something different with a different look?
 
Sharks4Kids

Sharks4Kids

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Meet Norman the Nurse Shark. http://sharks4kids.com/fin-tastic-adventure-series/ This is the first in a series of episodes that reach out to kids who will learn, understand, love and protect. That's what Sharks4Kids is all about. Jillian and Duncan are leading the way.

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Gates is honored to support their efforts. Please consider doing the same. Spread the word, share the links, donate if you can.

J-
 
Mauricio,

Consider switching to the Canon 8-15. Our testing and field reports show it is sharper, and less fisheye across the center of the image. You'll have to zoom to 11 to get past vignetting.

The Sigma 17-70 macro is versatile, focusing through the entire zoom range behind a dome. Being and external zoom lens we had to use a bit longer port extender on DEEP EPIC to accommodate.

J-

Mauricio Handler said:
Tech / Lens decision time:

Using Epic X / 5K - in any one of its 5k formats- which lens would you choose and why?
I am looking for greatest angle of coverage and close focus.

#1 Zeiss Distagon 15mm (if so what is the angle coverage in 5K without vignetting ?)
#2 Nikon 10-24 (if so - what mm would you use to avoid vignetting?)
#3 other?

Price and quality have been discussed and I have asked a few of you off line regarding these two options.
I just upgraded to Epic X and will now be requiring greater coverage -
I have the Tokina 10-17 - has worked well for me but time to get better glass.

Your opinions welcome....

Thx MH
Click to expand...
 
I did not mention the Canon lenses to Mauricio, only because i believe he's well vested in Nikon....But, yes, i've seen the Gates tests and in fact i DID switch to Canon for underwater use...but not because of the lens tests only, but because my RED Nikon mount did not electronically cover the lenses i chose...such as 10-17; Simga 15mm etc....so i went Canon route....i wanted to know exact focus ranges based on distance and aperture for better reference and the red Nikon mount was not giving me this...well it was rather not fully functional at the time i needed it...but RED has Canon covered. All of this for me caused much more investment going Canon route, which im happy about but would have stuck with Nikon if i had full electronic coverage with the mount.
.....but yes Mauricio, as JE says...sharper and even a bit more contrasty ---that's the word the comes to mind.
 
I second JE and JF.
the 8-15 is a great lens.
I shoot her at +/- 11.75 @ 5K.
Nikkor glass is great, esp the 10-24, but the firmware of the RED Nikon mount is crap for typical u/w lenses.
it makes the nearly unusable.
 
Michael Hastings said:
thanks for the tip Mike, I just downloaded the application too.

Do you know if it is only through the ethernet or also through the RS 232?
Click to expand...

I have received the SDK.

There is a LOT of relevant information there, but I'm not about to violate my NDA by disclosing it the same day I got it! :)

If you have a serious interest I suggest you obtain the SDK yourself, starting with the application process on the RED developers site already mentioned. It was a very straightforward procedure with standard agreements, and I think you will find it interesting...

Cheers

Mike
 
Johnny Friday said:
I did not mention the Canon lenses to Mauricio, only because i believe he's well vested in Nikon....But, yes, i've seen the Gates tests and in fact i DID switch to Canon for underwater use...but not because of the lens tests only, but because my RED Nikon mount did not electronically cover the lenses i chose...such as 10-17; Simga 15mm etc....so i went Canon route....i wanted to know exact focus ranges based on distance and aperture for better reference and the red Nikon mount was not giving me this...well it was rather not fully functional at the time i needed it...but RED has Canon covered. All of this for me caused much more investment going Canon route, which im happy about but would have stuck with Nikon if i had full electronic coverage with the mount.
.....but yes Mauricio, as JE says...sharper and even a bit more contrasty ---that's the word the comes to mind.
Click to expand...

Michael Maes said:
I second JE and JF.
the 8-15 is a great lens.
I shoot her at +/- 11.75 @ 5K.
Nikkor glass is great, esp the 10-24, but the firmware of the RED Nikon mount is crap for typical u/w lenses.
it makes the nearly unusable.
Click to expand...

What Nikon mount lenses would you like supported? We are adding more lenses, just need to know which lenses people actually want to use!
 
Mauricio,
Zeiss 15mm is beautiful, best performance behind a dome that I have seen, I have just purchased one after looking at Ron L's footage. It works and fits with Deep Epic but just check you can get it behind your dome as the lens shade is fixed and pretty large. It covers 5k and will cover 6K. Tokina is great and superb value for money however the Canon 8-15 is sharper.
I have the Sigma 17-70mm, very useful and a great reef lens, just wide enough for establishing shots but a fair amount of zoom and close focus for tights. It does vignette slightly at 5K FF and more so at the 70mm which is a little weird but very usable. I have actually used the Sigma a stack on a ABC /PBS show delivery is actually 4K and producers / directors have been super happy with the performance, its cheap too.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
I have received the SDK.

There is a LOT of relevant information there, but I'm not about to violate my NDA by disclosing it the same day I got it! :)

If you have a serious interest I suggest you obtain the SDK yourself, starting with the application process on the RED developers site already mentioned. It was a very straightforward procedure with standard agreements, and I think you will find it interesting...

Cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mike
Just filled it out and have to scan it and send it back.
 
Hey Mauricio,

I will second Jon's opinion on the Zeiss Distagon 15mm, has a really rich character to it. I used it for some work on the Esmeralda shoot; deep, dark and murky wasn't really the place to show its capabilities, but I am certain for colorful coral and big animals in bright clear water, this lens will really shine, hoping to test it at Tiger Beach eventually. Re the Canon 8-15, amazing little lens as well, for busy water where you need swim n' gun capability to capture all the action, the one shot AF really comes in handy. But the Zeiss is definitely a prettier lens.

I have both, happy to send them to you for testing, no charge my friend, have a little down time until the next gig, let me know via pm. You will of course, need the Canon mount for your brand new Epic (big congrats btw), if that's the way you're thinking of going.

FWIW, here are a couple of grabs with the Canon 8-15, @13mm, almost looks rectilinear. Not up to Johnny-Rudi standard :coolgleamA:, but you get the idea of how even across the entire frame these images are;

11556452774_5e1f3040cd.jpg
[/URL] A006_C002_12057L by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]

10351320655_aa8c41e5d9.jpg
[/URL] A003_C003_100433 by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
Zeke Burgess said:
What Nikon mount lenses would you like supported? We are adding more lenses, just need to know which lenses people actually want to use!
Click to expand...
Hi Zeke,

I passed my list already twice or three times since the Nikon mount was released.
none added until today, so I don't use Nikon anymore.... alas.
basically, and I think many would agree, the following lenses:

Nikkor 16mm FE
Nikkor 10.5mm FE (arguable, but I love that little lens)
Sigma 15mm FE
Tokina 10-17mm FE
Nikkor 10-24mm RL
Nikkor 60mm Macro
Nikkor 105mm Macro
Sigma 150mm Macro

Thanks again,

Michael
 
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