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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Drama and blood is what sells.

Drama and blood is what sells.

Johnny Friday said:
Tom, from the standpoint of ratings only and what makes $$$ to keep Discovery on air...well sharkweek is Discovery's #1 rated show i believe. I might be wrong by a show or two...but the ratings speak for themselves and this is what the Sharkweek audience wants.....regardless of what a few of % of people have to say....most of us on this forum are not Discovery or Sharkweeks audience....hence more blood and biting...Pretty simple and i'm sure you and everyone here gets it. I gag when i see what's put out there and think "REALLY"? But it's cheap to produce, people seem to be swarming to watch it and well, ratings=sponsorhip and $$. Simple stuff....and won't change as long as that's what the public asks for.....in fact their Snuffy the Seal campaignk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsjBfs-4svg .....took me by surprise when i first saw it and was a bit of a shock...but then i just had to laugh in that Discovery knows their audience all too well and don't care what the nay-sayers have to say.
....that said, i only wish they would get back to some blue-chip programing now and again....and have a really nicely done and well funded show in their week of circus shows.....
Click to expand...

Perfectly stated Johnny..

Would be nice to have some great shows about marine life without all the drama.

People watch reality TV. I don't get it but they do.

They bought my shark bite footage yet again this year for another show. Do I like the drama? No, but it puts food on the table and pays the mortgage.

I didn't care for the Megalodon show, turned it off actually, did watch Andy's show with Liz. Was that Mark w Andy?
Best,
Frazier
 
Well,

I obviously understand very well the mechanism by which Discovery operates and that dictates the profile and tone of their programming. I am not an idealist, far from it. But I was ranting simply because, understanding the way the world works does not make it any more appealing to me. And nowadays, "we" may not be the audience for Discovery or Shark Week, which is deeply ironic since Discovery was founded EXACTLY to attract people like us, a network to cater to the educated world travelers, nature/adventure lovers. Anthony Bourdain traveling the world sampling local foods and cultures may be a little out of that original vision, but it is still far more relevant than all the garbage they play. You tell me what a show about a dysfunctional family of motorcycle builders, whom probably never left the town they were born on, or a bunch of fishing boat captains braving stormy seas for nothing other than the financial reward of killing millions of animals for their overpriced flesh, has to do with the concept of "Discovery"? So where does that leave me? Just because I am wise enough to understand what drives Discovery to function the way it does, and to know that it is nothing but a reflection of the current trends and tastes at large, what, am I ok with that? I contend that there is still an audience for the same programming they became known for, a niche audience to be sure, but one that would certainly guarantee enough viewership/ratings/income to keep the place afloat. And to make stock owners plenty of money. The problem comes, of course, when they want more, more, more, more...Then values and vision fall by the wayside. So yes, I get it, but that doesn't make their fall from a respected champion of our planet (of which there are almost none left) into a precipitous freefall to the bottom of the shit pit. And boy, have they continued to dig deeper once they reached that bottom...
 
Well, I'd have to agree with you Rudi, I don't do much channel surfing, far too busy for that, but when I've done so lately, I have noticed the appalling lack of taste on a channel I used to watch religiously once upon a time.

Rather than lament a world long gone to the dogs though, there is enough talent, resources and equiipment right here on this thread to put together some very respectable marine programming, thoughtful, educated, interesting and dramatic. Blue Chip even.

What's stopping, say, a half dozen of us or more, from collaborating on a really huge project of that kind?

Pick up where Discovery left off?
 
I have noticed, that my television as become much more interesting when it is turned off... :glare:
 
Distribution is, indeed, the key to a rebirth of good programming, done by the good guys, for the good people, and it is a tough, tough nut to crack....
 
So, totally uncrackable then...

One thought that has occurred to me, the folks who do this are very independent, very self-reliant people, a trait I not only admire, but aspire to myself. Such is the essential nature of creativity I expect, you can't be a follower if you want to make a big splash of your own.

That same trait, however, does seem to mitigate against the need for the collaboration required to crack tough nuts, if you'll excuse the turn of phrase.

It it has been done before, though, and will again.
 
I didn't say uncrackable, just tough to crack, which is not quite the same. I have found ways to have my last few projects financed completely outside of the network system, and I beginning to contemplate how to achieve moderately successful distribution outside of those channels. Netflix's online service, for example, sees its biggest demand for documentaries would you believe it, and selling to Netflix directly is not as hard as selling to networks like Discovery though probably no less difficult a pill to swallow. But there are constantly emerging players, and there are Facebook and Youtube, incredible platforms that can create enough interest to really gain widespread distribution. The key to successful self distribution will definitely be PROMOTION, it is a powerful motivator for a buyer when a trailer has had, say, 300-500K hits. So there are ways. As for alliances, though I see the value in such, it is a difficult proposition to execute and make all players happy...
 
Rudi Herbert said:
I didn't say uncrackable, just tough to crack, which is not quite the same. I have found ways to have my last few projects financed completely outside of the network system, and I beginning to contemplate how to achieve moderately successful distribution outside of those channels. Netflix's online service, for example, sees its biggest demand for documentaries would you believe it, and selling to Netflix directly is not as hard as selling to networks like Discovery though probably no less difficult a pill to swallow. But there are constantly emerging players, and there are Facebook and Youtube, incredible platforms that can create enough interest to really gain widespread distribution. The key to successful self distribution will definitely be PROMOTION, it is a powerful motivator for a buyer when a trailer has had, say, 300-500K hits. So there are ways. As for alliances, though I see the value in such, it is a difficult proposition to execute and make all players happy...
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Rudi....i'm agreeing with most of what you say...Then the reality hits home. You are now no longer an underwater shooter, but a promoter of your documentary and then that's when (as you know) a bit of a slap of reality hits......"this is hard stuff---the distribution game". But self promotion coupled with good content can bring you into some $$$ to pay off your shoot/post and promotional efforts---but that's even hard to do...a break even that is. I'm sure i'm preaching to the choir on this. But it is another full time job. One that usually doesn't pay as well as being a shooter for hire. But there are some that will break out of the mold and more power to them...i hope to see more. There's a lot of platforms out there....even Vimeo has a new one. But the blunt reality is that getting distribution and viewership numbers is just so hard if you don't have a US outlet on a major network.
 
What about ODEMAX? Is there any hope for a future for UW Content there?
 
Will Keir said:
What about ODEMAX? Is there any hope for a future for UW Content there?
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I guess first question is What is Odemax? and how does the general public even know about Odemax? How many people (general public) are going to buy a redray since it's not a well known name like sony, panasonic etc....nor will anyone find it in wallmart, sears etc....so sounds like Odemax is just another of several thousands outlets for filmmakers to place their content. But the real discussion comes back to NUMBERS. The major networks are the real source of deriving any income to sustain such projects. There are lots of indie or self made docs....and they are inspiring, interesting and well done, but you rarely see those same filmmakers make another or few who do.....it's all about the numbers and making $$. Simple as that. I just looked up Odemax and don't know what it is or if it's even viable.....but to take say a $100k doc and find a way to recoup funds from only a $100k doc ----do the numbers. and length of time you personally invest......and in many cases it does not make financial sense.

Too bad really, since there are many talented and respected doc filmmakers with great vision that just cannot get their treatments by a secretary.
 
Johnny,

I, on the other hand, find myself agreeing with you 100% :-)

Yes, networks are still the best option to get your stuff out there, but two things to observe here. First, your doc may never get the air time it needs/deserves to either generate enough residuals for you or give potential future employers/clients a known point of reference about your work. Some pieces air just once, or twice, during the life of the contract, and nowadays, that may well mean "oh really, your work was featured on Discovery, sorry, I never saw it". Second, you know better than me that recouping costs from, to continue with the same example, someone like Discovery, is ill advised at best. They will lock you in an exclusive contract at best, if not perpetuity, but still pay you very, very little. I'd dare say VERY few single piece docs would recover a $100K price tag from Discovery. And unless you either managed to film something truly never before seen and/or you have a name like Hall, Cranston, Footergill, attached to it, your chances are very slim. Ironically, it would have to be one of those that fits within a repeatable cycle, like Shark Week.

So, if you choose to become a promoter, which as you say, is a recipe for agony, self doubt and recurring thoughts of suicide, you still MAY have a chance to potentially hit some avenue which will be more gratifying, and financially rewarding, than Discovery or other networks. You probably will not, but you may, whereas with Discovery you'll know exactly what you get and that's that. Is that any better really? Well, like I said, I have managed to spend the last few years getting financing from outside the networks, and the key has been of course to not make the end goal of the project to receive network time. Instead, I have focused on finding sponsors, companies that wish to be associated with the sea/environmental causes and who wish to use the material for their own promotional means, be it footage through their websites/facebook and yooutube channels, or to be shown at trade shows to distinguish themselves from competitors, or images for their catalogs, etc, etc. One of my most successful partnerships was a two hour special I shot for an electronics store, a sort of Best Buy in an Eastern European country, where they gave a free Bluray of my piece to every customer than bought a BD player. At over 150,000 copies shipped to them, at $3 a piece, you do the math. It cost me $30K to produce. Now, this may not be the best avenue to pursue if what you want is to really become known as an underwater shooter, artistically speaking, but if what you want is to make enough money to allow you to make this wonderful passion an actual living, well, there are ways, just not the traditional ones that we have grown used to.

And the key to that, as well as to being a respected shooter for hire for high end network work, is the same: produce excellent images, plain and simple.
 
Here's an interesting conversation about Odemax on Wetpixel and what is sure is that there are many many other online distribution possibilities as well...but none i see that give you much of a return now that there is so much content out there. Rudi, your example is one that is quite unique and built on your ability to network and to make a lot of pieces come together.....you are quite a talent in that respect....and you have a lot of ability in that you can shoot/edit/color correct and run a full post house out of your house....some of us (me) are not as accomplished....I just want to work for you when you have a project and leave the big decisions to others....In truth, many avenues are coming up, but which to choose?

OOPS:

LINK: http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51032
 
Grading this footage now

Grading this footage now

Just had to share this with you guys. Shot at 96 fps. This is just turning out beautifully. Will post some motion imaging as I get it all finished and edited into something nice.

Best,
Frazier
 

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Only this weekend I got a chance to put my new corrected dome optical system in the water again, the second time in over four months now, talk about being busy. But if very unscientifically, I'm glad to report excellent edge sharpness. Pawel would have been proud :-) I think I will have to get a small polycarbonate test tank built so I can test several lenses and run some MTF tests and the like, though that will require time.

Images don't look as beautiful as Frazier's, so forgive that minor detail..
 

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Rudi Herbert said:
Only this weekend I got a chance to put my new corrected dome optical system in the water again, the second time in over four months now, talk about being busy. But if very unscientifically, I'm glad to report excellent edge sharpness. Pawel would have been proud :-) I think I will have to get a small polycarbonate test tank built so I can test several lenses and run some MTF tests and the like, though that will require time.

Images don't look as beautiful as Frazier's, so forgive that minor detail..
Click to expand...

Rudi: For what lens?
 
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