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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Tom,

Out of the two people you mentioned, I know very well how one of them works but not the other, thus I have to assume instead of state, besides, when talking about such known names, it is always better not to reveal one's information source as that can be misconstrued as braggadocio. Alas, I do not really know how they feel about the price drop, that not being a subject brought up between us, so you're right, assumptions are dangerous.

BUT, to the point at hand,

I understand how you and Michael feel, there is never an easy feeling swallowing such a bitter pill, but the important thing is that, regardless of how you feel about RED's policy and behavior, and you have a right to not agree with them, and downright, dislike/hate them for it, but the thing is, your Epic camera is still the best out there. Nevermind what the popular belief or opinion of the camera is now that is that much cheaper, what do your eyes tell you everytime you look at the images you make? In terms of size, resolution, compression, frame rates, nothing really compares to the Epic, not the slew of Sony new toys, however good I'm sure their images will look, not the Alexa, nothing really. Now, if you bought your system to acquire awesome images that will stand the test of any medium, up to cinematic exhibition down to nicely compressed internet video, and that will do justice to unique locations and places, then you have not lost anything. Continue focusing on your travels and on being able to go on awesome dives, things that will be memorable and indelibly imprinted on your mind 'till the proverbial day you die, and the camera will go back to occupying the secondary place it always deserved.

You are an adventurer of the highest caliber Tom, nevermind the financial ins and outs of those that manufacture the gear you use on your adventures, just focus on the great, wide expanse of awesome in front of you and you'll be alright. The only thing that one can really wish for nowadays with a company is that they'll be strong enough to stay alive long enough to provide service and honor warranties, something that in this economy no longer can be taken for granted. RED seems definitely capable of doing that, the rest, well, you have no control over, so chillax and get back to doing what you truly can control and do well, fly your plane, go diving, explore. $15K instant devaluation is nothing in the bigger scheme of things, and life is (cliche here we go) too short and unpredictable to agonize over that. Assume your housing flooded and RED charged you $15K to repair it, and that prices never went down, there are always a ton of ways in which your expensive electronics can depreciate instantly other than manufacturers' price reductions. One of my F-900s flooded once, courtesy of the shiny Amphibicam housing that cost as much as the camera and whose hand grip controls leaked water, and Sony charged me $38K to repair the camera. That repair wiped out my amortization plan and made that camera a loss for me, but, I did have it repaired and I continued using it. Such is life. At least you're not actually paying extra out of pocket, and your next big gig, the one that will pay off for the camera's full cost and make you a go-to-name in the field is always around the corner.

And yes, as soon as I can liquidate some assets, I'm buying 15 R1's :-) Seriously.

Peace of mind, calm seas and safe dives to everyone, the rest comes and goes....
 
Thanks Rudi, absolutely correct. I think the big error I make, and did not realize my own thought processes until this jaw-dropping price slash, was assuming Epic is a camera, in the traditional sense of the word. It is not. It is an imaging computer. As such, it follows the electronics laws of rapid development, obsolescence, and replacement. Obsolescence, it seems, is very much alive and well.

The camera bit comes from the mind's eye, as Ross pointed out.

I continue to enjoy my Epic enormously, it's capabilities are still astonishing to me. As I adjust to this shift in thinking though, I plan to be considerably more mindful and cautious with future technology purchases.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
And as for the R1, that is now, without argument, the best value in digital imaging bar none. 4.5K for $4K? That's a whole can of worms that just exploded. Housing manufacturers could make a killing if they were to offer cheap housings for the R1, its what I would do. How can I honestly recommend an EX-1, or an FS-100 or FS-700 instead of an R1 to all those who come to me asking for advice on what to buy? I already own two R1's and as soon as I can, I'm buying another 2-3 if they don't run out before.
Click to expand...

How about a special price of $4.5K for 4.5K Redone? - for our PVC housing for RED1 if ordered in the month of November. This can be a bit shorter than the original R1 housing - since we don't need the extra space for the hard drive and cables. LCD internal to the housing visible through the backplate, Acrylic dome port, simple friction lens controls.

Birger Canon mounts and controller available.
 
Just a small reminder though. The R1 is a power hog, in comparison to the Epic. In my experience, about an hour underwater with a standard brick was about all you could reasonably expect. I found it very limiting. And frustrating. Maybe the CCR guys could chime in here.

I've seen two-brick installations out there, maybe that's the way to go. The higher capacity bricks are also available, but then you run into airline travel restrictions. That limit has been very strictly enforced by the Australians, on the basis of an incomplete data set, such a nice country otherwise.

I am also still unsure of the service capabilities Red intends to maintain with a discontinued (don't say obsolete!) model.

Just sayin...
 
Tom,

It is a damn power hog, one hour runtime is with new bricks, a lot less with used ones. I'm studying battery options that would fit inside my Deep Red Gates housing.

Mike,

$4.5K for a housing sounds like a deal, you need to spread the word really, post a classified on Wetpixel, on the Scubaboard, etc, etc, etc. I'll be happy to give you a discounted banner on UnderwaterCinema.com so you can get the word out to people. It can't hurt, in fact, it would be good for you now that I just published an article about the RED ONE for underwater use:

http://www.underwatercinema.com/why-the-red-one-mx-is-still-the-best-value-bar-none/

Let me know,
 
Shooting with 3Deep, for 3D and 2D (with two different lenses), is like walk in the park. It's routine now. Much easier, lighter (24kg) and simpler than it used to be with single camera HDCAM rig. Perfectly balanced. Lighter than most single camera housings. Quick to set up, reliable. I never thought 3D could be so easy. The best underwater setup I've ever used...not to mention the images coming out of it! Love it.

best fishes from sunny Tasmania to everyone
 

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Tom Hamilton said:
Pawel, what is that light unit on top of your housing, and what is the power source?
Click to expand...

that's just a little fill light, - a 6000 lm Keldan.
 
btw, just for fun, the first person who can spot a sea dragon in the picture attached to post #86 gets a drink/lunch/dinner of his/er choice at the first opportunity... :)

hint: it is undeniably there :)
 
david cheung said:
Here it is...
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Well spotted David! Indeed, there is no kelp in Australia that would have fronds shaped like this. It was a hard one. Drinks or a meal on me :beer:

btw, it is a weedy, not leafy :)
 

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So, with all of this angst, kvetching, and general biotching about the Epic price slash, the fanboys vs the nay-sayers, and every street dog in between, seems it was a very controversial move, no matter what side of the fence you happen to be looking through.

Having kept a general eye on the u/w market over the last number of years, I can't help but notice the Gates products have retained an incredibly high resale value, well above market expectations/performance. Why that is, is certainly open to a very interesting discussion. The Epic is a computer, yes I know that, the Gates housing is a precision-machined aluminum product. But isn't the camera always tied to the housing, price wise?

JJ, methinks, might have a serious sit-down with John E, they are both very savvy guys. Maybe they can agree somewhere on a mutually sustaining middle ground?
 
Tom Hamilton said:
The Epic is a computer, yes I know that, the Gates housing is a precision-machined aluminum product. But isn't the camera always tied to the housing, price wise?
Click to expand...

The short answer is: NO. The price heavily depends on the number of units that you can sell. There are big savings in quantity, not only in manufacturing and setup cost but in the design and R&D too.
 
Gates and other housing manufacturers offer a mechanical (for the most part) tool that allows exploitation of a depreciating technology underwater. The value does slip eventually but not as rapid a decline as technology. On the other hand as manufacturers change form factor from one series of a camera to another they also switch all the damned controls around so that for example an FX1 and Z1U Housing would have different setup and feature controls as needed. Frustrating to say the least. With housings the main reason they hold value is that they can be sold on to other newer owners of the same camera, do the same job and continue to do that job as long as they are looked after.

I guess though you will always have those who want to stay ahead of the curve and own the touted latest and greatest of anything, be that camera, housing or amazing life like sponge bob latex collectables, but that's another story!

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
Tom,

It is a damn power hog, one hour runtime is with new bricks, a lot less with used ones. I'm studying battery options that would fit inside my Deep Red Gates housing.

Mike,

$4.5K for a housing sounds like a deal, you need to spread the word really, post a classified on Wetpixel, on the Scubaboard, etc, etc, etc. I'll be happy to give you a discounted banner on UnderwaterCinema.com so you can get the word out to people. It can't hurt, in fact, it would be good for you now that I just published an article about the RED ONE for underwater use:

http://www.underwatercinema.com/why-the-red-one-mx-is-still-the-best-value-bar-none/

Let me know,
Click to expand...

Rudi:

I'll take you up on that - the Redone at this price point is a phenomenal deal.

Add in a birger canon mount and it is incredible lens control capability too.

I think custom batteries make a lot of sense, there are some things we can do now that were harder to promote back in the "void the warranty" days, but now nobody cares as much with a $4K camera.
 
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