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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Tom Hamilton said:
:w00t: Very funny Pawel. If I know John, he'll be right back at ya'.

Every housing has its Achilles Heel, I guess this one belongs to Gates. Several Deep Epic shooters mentioned on the last trip that checking for snugness/fit of mechanical interfaces is paramount before every dive, especially after the housing has been subject to vibration via transport by air and/or boat.

FWIW, iris and focus are controlled electronically on the Rouge, no such worries there.
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Well, if you are using cinema or manual style lenses with the rouge, I believe you still have mechanical interfaces. And also I believe Gates, AquaVideo and Nauticam all give electronic control of the Cannon and Nikon electronic lenses via either the Redmote controller, the six programmable buttons on the SSD and LCD, or the side handle. While admittedly the Rouge probably has the slickest control - with buttons at your fingertips while still holding the handles - not only do you have mechanical buttons, but an entire extra circuit board and extra wiring that can fail. So while mechanical adjustment may not be necessary, I don't think I'm being overly negative in saying that many of the people here have been around long enough to know that historically those electronic controls haven't been exactly "worry-free" and that there is value in the "KISS" principle I mentioned in my earlier post.

And remember, I'm the guy that was the original hardcore proponent of electronic lens control on RED cameras - and still am. Just saying that worry-free operation maybe isn't the biggest selling point.
 
Gates. Well, I don't own a Deep Epic, I do own a Deep Red upon which I have bestowed in excess of 200 dives already and 8 intercontinental flights. And before me, it was owned by Howard Hall, whom must have put that very housing through more than anybody on this thread has ever put a housing through. Never a loose cog, rod, actuator or wheel. and neither has it happened with my EX-1 housing, which has seen over 1000 dives and over 30 flights. Or with any of the other 9 Gates housings I've owned, although those were pre-Ellerbrock designs. I have had acrylic plates crack on those old housings but their controls have never failed me, so have I been lucky or is the Deep Epic design prone to such failures? Nothing is perfect and Gates' certainly has a few points where, I PERSONALLY, wish for different solutions, but mechanical failure has NEVER been one of those...I'm a bit mystified.

Amphibico. Again, I owned two of the "magnificent flooders of death", the F900 housing, which were prone to leaking through the electrical controls on the handles, but if I remember the Rouge design correctly, iris and focus are merely controlled by motors that are then actuated by wheels, simple stuff pretty fail safe as it comes given the reliability of those motors. So I don't think the controls described by Tom are the much maligned Amphibico controls Pawel is blasting, or am I wrong?

Pawel. Do tell please. Given that you use a lens, or lenses, with external controls, a solution whose elegance and reliability can be debated, but which in any case, was not of your doing but rather of the nikon engineers you have borrowed from; how would you solve the problem of through-the-housing controls in a better waay than either Gates or Amphibico? You are about to really get very lucky, BECAUSE I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT ALTHOUGH NOT RED, ANOTHER COMPANY WILL INTRODUCE A FULL FRAME SENSOR 4K CAMERA THIS YEAR, which will finally make those Nikonos lenses worth something to most people, but until then, it is a proven fact, as stated by most users on this thread, that the ability to have wider FOV than that provided by your 15mm lens will outweigh any of its advantages and people will need to keep using land lens/dome port combinations. So again, how would you deal with internal controls in that case?
 
Ok to blast through the banter yes, I think I might need to use some low grade locktite as well.. Its not uncommon to get beat to hell on the way to Molokai. I am unsure what else to do thats why I seek John's advice I do however love my housing! It can do razor sharp crisp image when working right.

The Vignetting is the damn lens not the dome... I am unsure what to do about this other than shoot 4k but I think I would rather have the extra pixels and crop was just being lazy. Considering shooting 4k at 60fps though will see how I go?
 
Rudi Herbert said:
....Pawel. Do tell please. Given that you use a lens, or lenses, with external controls, a solution whose elegance and reliability can be debated, but which in any case, was not of your doing but rather of the nikon engineers you have borrowed from; how would you solve the problem of through-the-housing controls in a better waay than either Gates or Amphibico? You are about to really get very lucky, BECAUSE I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT ALTHOUGH NOT RED, ANOTHER COMPANY WILL INTRODUCE A FULL FRAME SENSOR 4K CAMERA THIS YEAR, which will finally make those Nikonos lenses worth something to most people, but until then, it is a proven fact, as stated by most users on this thread, that the ability to have wider FOV than that provided by your 15mm lens will outweigh any of its advantages and people will need to keep using land lens/dome port combinations. So again, how would you deal with internal controls in that case?
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Rudi,

All my HDCAM housings had electronic controls. However, the way these electronic controls were made is slightly different to that of most consumer grade electronics are made.

Pictures of unfinished aperture controller for HDCAM are attached.

There are thousands of mechanical and electronic controls found in different fields, like aircraft, life support (for example, rebreathers), all of which share one common design principle that is rather uncommon in underwater housings: reliable and fail safe.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but in order to compare or improve anything, we need to be able to quantify it first. The standard metrics for this is MTBF or, Mean Time Between Failures. There are certain solutions/features that have known MTBF. The reliability of the combination of those features is calculated as a product of all the probabilities of the failure of each individual link. Some failures are dependent and some are not. Mission critical design principles and approach substantially differ from standard industrial design.

Without revealing too much, we have designed and manufacture our own controls and acctuators: both mechanical and electronic. They are made from titanium alloys with precision and features that would make every housing builder go green with envy. The devil is in the detail :)

The angle of view is a limitation for some shooters. I totally accept that. Others (like me) find it just perfect for the subjects and look that I'm after. It's really a personal preference.

I'm not attempting to take any credit for Nikonos lenses, I'm just excited that there is a choice, something different, an alternative to what has been on offer: the only wide angle optics out-resolving Epic sensor whether I'm shooting rectilinear wide angle, fish eye or macro. It's also the only u/w wide angle optics that I don't hesitate to use at f/2.8. The only underwater optics with flat field and no distortions...

The main reason I'm shooting with Red Epic is because I love 4k images, not just recording sub-HD images with a 4k camera. But, I accept that there are others that are happy with the results that they achieve with other underwater optics. I think it is great that we are all different and different features and tastes appeal to each of us.

What I do, however take a full credit for, is a housing that weighs half of what is available from others :)
 

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Thanks John, new video of bikinis and Hammerheads without shark bites just for Tom

Thanks John, new video of bikinis and Hammerheads without shark bites just for Tom

:smile5:
John J Ellerbrock said:
Frazier,

Superb! If my uttered involuntary expletives made it into this post, I'd be banned. So....Simply smashing ole' chap!

J-
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Thank you John, very kind of you, appreciate it coming from you. Glad that you and others enjoyed it. I have a new video edited especially for Tom with beautiful girls in Bikinis, spoke with my friend and she said it was ok for me to post it, and the music will be a nice soft symphony, will make the sharks seem less fearsome. I wouldn't want to make a bad impression on anyone and make the sharks seem dangerous or jaws like... :smile5:

Coming soon to a REDUSER UW Bubble Blowers thread, exclusively.

Best,
Frazier
 
Michael Hastings said:
The Sigma 14mm that Frazier used on that shoot as well as the Olympic swimmer pool footage we posted quite a while ago is a mid-90s rectilinear 14mm that I got with an Aquatica housing and Nikon F4 ebay purchase a few years ago.

We started using it with the very first Epic housing since we had a non functioning early prototype canon mount and we wanted as wide as we could get that covered full 5K and needed something with an iris ring. It is a Nikon mount with a Nikon to EF adapter. I ended up buying three more on ebay for about $300-$400 each since they are super easy to work with and give pretty darn good results - particularly since it was designed for full frame 36x24mm still photo film, so the outer portions where the distortion and chromatic aberrations are typically the worst, don't show up on the 4K aps-c or 5K aps-h of Epic sensors.

We've never even really tried to optimize for that particular lens - just made best guess of where it should sit in the dome and went shooting. (If you look at the standard AquaVideo epic mount plate you can see that there are camera mounting holes about every half inch so you can mount the camera pretty much anywhere forward or back to accommodate specific lenses. Obviously there are limits if you want to use the standard battery setups. We give you two "normal" positions where we have a control for hitting the power button - that really cover virtually all of the commonly used PLcine and SLR lenses - and frontplate and port spacers that allow finer tuning.)

I loaned Frazier my Canon 8-15 L fisheye zoom, but I don't think he has had a chance to use it yet and has preferred to stick with the tried and true for these recent paying gigs - there is a lot to be said for the KISS principle, especially when clients are actually paying money to get those "money shots".
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I have tested it Mike actually yesterday, I plan on taking it out again this next week if you don't mind me keeping it a bit longer.

I'm also testing the Sigma 8-16mm and Samyang 8mm.

Actually I shot some tests with the Samyang 8mm and I am impressed, seems pretty sharp. And the Sigma 8-16mm lens at 5k is very close to rectilinear and if shot at 4kHD would give a very clean and nice image, pretty sharp and no curvature to speak of and the 4kHD would take care of the cropped edges, the lines were very nice on this lens. I'll post the results of a test I'm doing this week. I'm teaching a underwater filmmaking class to a client this week.

The Sigma 14mm lens is a very nice lens and has been my go to lens for most things, but UW wider is better for most things as long as the image isn't to distorted. the Sigma is good for clear waters but would prefer wider always. I can't complain, I get good results from the Sigma but looking for a wider, sharper, solution and will find it.

So while he's filming UW I'll do some testing of the different lenses. Will post results of my trials and lenses.

All these lenses would have to be shot a 4kHD probably, will know soon.

Best,
Frazier
 
Frazier Nivens said:
:smile5:


Thank you John, very kind of you, appreciate it coming from you. Glad that you and others enjoyed it. I have a new video edited especially for Tom with beautiful girls in Bikinis, spoke with my friend and she said it was ok for me to post it, and the music will be a nice soft symphony, will make the sharks seem less fearsome. I wouldn't want to make a bad impression on anyone and make the sharks seem dangerous or jaws like... :smile5:

Coming soon to a REDUSER UW Bubble Blowers thread, exclusively.

Best,
Frazier
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Hey thanks Frazier!

Nothing sells like sex and violence. I have a title for your piece;

Fifty Shades of Blue

:cheers2:
 
GREAT HAMMERHEADS OF BIMINI. BIKINI'S AND HAMMERHEADS.

GREAT HAMMERHEADS OF BIMINI. BIKINI'S AND HAMMERHEADS.

How bout Great Hammerheads of Bimini? Sorry I didn't change the music, no time to mess with it. Still irresponsible after all these years I guess. I love the music. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.:smile5:

Best,
Frazier

Please watch it and change the youtube version to 720 in the settings.

Thanks to my friend for allowing me to post this. Boys always be nice. And the bite shots are still in, so don't watch Tom if you are squeamish.:smile5:

 

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Tom Hamilton said:
Those shots with Liz are absolutely stunning Frazier. Congrats!
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Crappy Youtube video..on my screen at home it looks nice, you can see the strands in her flowing hair in the close up over her shoulder shot, at 60 fps., can't wait to see it all on REDRAY in 4k, hopefully sometime this year. Figured I'd have my REDRAY by now since I ordered it within 20 min. of going live in the RED store.

Thanks Tom,
Frazier
 
Pawel, Ross,

Liz, by the way, is Orstrylian, you'se guys sure build em tough, fearless, and beautiful over there!
 
Ron Lagerlof said:
Very nice, Frazier. I was so tempted to gear back up and jump in with you guys, but watching from the surface was pretty cool too...
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Thanks Ron, all this was footage that I shot on the very last day Thursday, we pulled off total of three dives, but over 4 1/2 hrs underwater on those dives, the afternoon last dive of the day was pretty crazy good also. What a great trip. It was very nice to meet you there. Hope we run into each other again sometime, will be at the DEMA show this year, have a booth there.

Gotta process the other 3 days of footage at some point. If you guys are ever down this way, let me know in advance, we're in Key Largo.

Best,
Frazier
 
Just out of curiosity, I am wondering what value the baited sharks show for behavioral value other than excited sharks? They seem far too excited in those videos LOL

Makes everything I do seem about as calm as it gets.
 
At that site, mostly Nurse sharks, they didn't seem at all bothered by the presence of Hammerheads. The Bull sharks though, stayed a respectful distance, which surprised me, as they are considered very ballsy critters.
 
Yeah bulls are not known for timidness, it might be the hammerheads?

I know when hammerheads show up out here all the other critters abort and leave. My buddy caught a hammerhead fullblown attacking a Galapagos on video, it was not a small one either... Although we also caught a hammerhead that had deep wounds that could have only been created by a Great White too. Lends credit to for sure great whites living off north side of Molokai or at least transit through. I am unsure what would be predatory to hammerheads and or what would have healthy respect for them.

(RAMPANT SPECULATION on my part)
 
Always wondered about that Greg. Shark to shark interaction always happens in a different mode than shark to human.

In a quiet moment on the boat between dives, Stuart related a story that happened last year, a big Hammerhead went vertical on a reasonably big Tiger, bit it in half, one bite, done deal, 30,000 psi of tooth and jaw, proceeded to ingest both still struggling halves.

I am under no illusion whatsoever; the sheer power, unbridled, reckless, the lightning strike capabilities they so effortlessly possess, those big sharks, why they just don't eat us, is beyond me.
 
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