The First Komodo Out in the Wild

[rand thompson]

Phil,

You're welcome! the audio seemed fine to me. it could be the debayer resolution you are watching it in. Under "Edit", at the top of the Viewer window, try choosing a lower Debayer resolution like for example "1/4" or even "1/8" depending on your system and see if that changes anything.

And at the bottom right-hand area of the Viewer menu make sure the "GPU" icon is grey which means it's enable for smoother playback

 

[Phil Glowskey]

I don't have a problem with playback - the movie plays smoothly and has a lot of storage in it. Was it not recorded from some source other than the camera?
Thanks as always for your quick reply. Respect

 

[rand thompson]

Phil.

No problem man! Ok I see what you are saying. I believe the sound wasn't recorded in camera. Phil Holland can explain it better. He did however talk about it in post #238.

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil I’d love to hear your thoughts on how many lbs Komodo should be rigged to (including a side handle) for a clean handheld look. I know that’s a very subjective, loaded question. But still interested in your thoughts!

Yep, fairly subjective and pretty much depends on how much you are looking to lift.

Handheld to me means exactly that, in the hands. For me keeping things in the 5-25lbs range is reasonable for 2 handed operation extended in front of your body. Then you get into shoulder territory for comfort.

A lot of people don't think much about he visual language of handheld, but there is a different between in the hand, in the hands (plural), shoulder, and various "handheld" rigging options. For DPs who understand the true nature of just being able to lift up the camera and kinda "tommy gun it" that's where Komodo is opening new doors. I think there have been a few BTS images of big DPs and even Bay doing just that. Actual handheld, just picking up Komodo, and seeing what you can do feels good. It's been a long time since that was something people did.

It's not just the weight of the camera that allows for this in this case, but this is squarely where the global shutter allows for more energized movement. During the live stream I mentioned to Jarred about how JJ Abrams likes to do energy impacts on the camera by physically shaking it. He's not the only Director or DP I know who's into that. Komodo allows for that without any weird tearing via rolling shutter. RED cameras are pretty close to film in regards to their readout and handle this sort of thing well. Komodo is the apex however.

Certainly will have that to show shortly and people will ask why I'm doing that to my camera for sure.

Thanks again, Phil-- great to follow along with your "diaries." These are my favorite resources for thinking realistically about this amazing little camera.

I know people are excited, but I'm just not convinced of the value of 4k screens in these size ranges-- I doubt that I'd be able to tell the difference from quality HD. That said, 4k signal input is useful in an HD screen if it allows high-res examination of details (to check focus, etc.). For me, anyway-- not trying to pick a fight with anyone!

Aside from a range of other skin tones, I don't personally need loads more formal test footage-- instead, I'm excited to see this little guy really rock and roll! Would love to see convincingly cinematic rendering with dramatic lighting, vintage lenses, very kinetic usage-- all the stuff that makes shooting fun!

Heh. Don't worry. 5 and 6 inch mobile screens are incoming in UHD 4K resolution, I'm hoping for DCI aspect ratio stuff at some point. Based on my tool:
http://phfx.com/tools/optimalViewing/optimalViewing.cgi?resolution=4096x2160&resX=&resY=&diagonal=7

A DCI 4K 7" screen nets you a PPI of 661, which is very, very high resolution and you will not see pixels. But think about how you use the image to punch in and focus and so on. Also just having a clean 4K pass through to the SDI out to a larger say 24" or whatever behind you. We'll get there. Is it necessary? No. Will some people want it? Well yes. I"d be into a nice 1440p screen as well truthfully. Phones got here already obviously.

Appreciate the kind words and you and I are on the same page in regards to what useful footage is. Despite people within the first 48 hours of me having a camera thinking filming squirrels in my backyard would provide much meaningful info, it's truthfully all about how we'd actually use the camera, in my case in a cinematic narrative, commercial, or natural history deployment. I think it's neat we'll see variety of content from everybody, especially early on, but I'm mostly into what I can do with it in those capacities.

4K is about 33% more resolution than a 12” iPad Pro screen. As someone who sees pixels on the iPad Pro Retina display and thinks it could be sharper, this would be welcome. Seeing a 4K playback in a compact field setup or field-worthy monitor could be a godsend.

I’d take 4K in a 7” monitor or viewfinder any day.

Same feels bud. Same feels. Might be a 2020 or 2021 thing, but it's gonna happen.

Thanks my Bro!

the raw file uploaded by PHIL is really good! I work very well on REDCINE-X .. I'm surprised, really I'm waiting for more
It seems to me that the audio that KOMODO records is slightly shifted? does it seem to me

As Rand is alluding to you might want to change your debayer settings. But in reality when you test this footage out plugging it into various NLEs and Color programs will reveal it's in sync as well as when you export it. Really depends on the hardware and software. NLEs are obviously a bit more streamlined than say REDCINE-X PRO on this front as it's more of a first light and digital lab sort of program.

In terms of things that can lead to audio delays, in this case this is a hard line 3.5mm signal straight from a Sound Devices MixPre 10 II. Adding wireless signal delivery into the mix can possibly add some delay, but hard lined should be dead on, which is actually what I was testing here.

The scratch mics on the camera are decent btw, but you like always, will likely enjoy the sound out of true and good microphones and perhaps an advanced recording solution. For instance, though I was ridiculed early for experimenting with 32-bit audio workflows via the field recorders, I now know several productions exploring that as their pipeline. Tech is evolving honestly, even in sound. But generally it's been a much slower world of advancement in that world compared to fiery forge of camera advancements.

 

[Ty Maier]

Great insight on handheld. Thank you Phil!

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Ah ! Quick question Phil (or anyone with the camera ^^) : what are the sensor sizes in the different crop ? Is it fair to assume something like 4K crop ≈ 4/3" and 2K crop ≈ 16mm ?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Ah ! Quick question Phil (or anyone with the camera ^^) : what are the sensor sizes in the different crop ? Is it fair to assume something like 4K crop ≈ 4/3" and 2K crop ≈ 16mm ?

Camera's got 4.4 micron pixels (27.03mm sensor width/6144 pixels) so 4K would be 4096 * (27.03/6144) = 18.02mm wide and 2K would be 2048 * (27.03/6144) = 9.01mm wide. m4/3 is 18mm wide so bang on for 4K. Regular 16mm is 10.26mm wide so 2K is just a smidge smaller.

You can go the other way and calculate a theoretical extraction's resolution. Here's Super 16: 12.52mm * (6144/27.03) = 2.8K.

 

[vincent kardasik]

A lot of people don't think much about he visual language of handheld, but there is a different between in the hand, in the hands (plural), shoulder, and various "handheld" rigging options. For DPs who understand the true nature of just being able to lift up the camera and kinda "tommy gun it" that's where Komodo is opening new doors. I think there have been a few BTS images of big DPs and even Bay doing just that. Actual handheld, just picking up Komodo, and seeing what you can do feels good. It's been a long time since that was something people did.

Amen to that!

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Camera's got 4.4 micron pixels (27.03mm sensor width/6144 pixels) so 4K would be 4096 * (27.03/6144) = 18.02mm wide and 2K would be 2048 * (27.03/6144) = 9.01mm wide. m4/3 is 18mm wide so bang on for 4K. Regular 16mm is 10.26mm wide so 2K is just a smidge smaller.

You can go the other way and calculate a theoretical extraction's resolution. Here's Super 16: 12.52mm * (6144/27.03) = 2.8K.

Well, thanks that's awesome information

 

[Phil Glowskey]

In terms of things that can lead to audio delays, in this case this is a hard line 3.5mm signal straight from a Sound Devices MixPre 10 II. Adding wireless signal delivery into the mix can possibly add some delay, but hard lined should be dead on, which is actually what I was testing here.

The scratch mics on the camera are decent btw, but you like always, will likely enjoy the sound out of true and good microphones and perhaps an advanced recording solution. For instance, though I was ridiculed early for experimenting with 32-bit audio workflows via the field recorders, I now know several productions exploring that as their pipeline. Tech is evolving honestly, even in sound. But generally it's been a much slower world of advancement in that world compared to fiery forge of camera advancements.

I think so too, that it gives such an impression through another sound source

Nie ma problemu, stary! Ok, rozumiem co mówisz. Uważam, że dźwięk nie został zarejestrowany w aparacie. Phil Holland może to lepiej wyjaśnić. Mówił jednak o tym w poście # 238.

I think what Phil said makes sense.

 

[Peter Stanley]

Just upscaled the 6k file (Phil's) to 8k and it looked great. Not that 8K is a mainstream deliverable (yet) but good to know it can be done with ease.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Just upscaled the 6k file (Phil's) to 8k and it looked great. Not that 8K is a mainstream deliverable (yet) but good to know it can be done with ease.

Arri does upscaling since the beginning of their 4k workflow. No one seems to care.

 

[Václav Formánek]

Just upscaled the 6k file (Phil's) to 8k and it looked great. Not that 8K is a mainstream deliverable (yet) but good to know it can be done with ease.

Can I ask what is the best workflow for the upscaling process? Was always curious about this topic.

 

[jim kozmik]

hello from canada..loving this komodo imput..love to see a nice housing from gates and nauticam with smaller dome canon 8.15mm type lenses,,carryon airplane size..walk through customs hassle free..our big dive show dema is now cancelled so hopefully this fall..housings wil lbe out and tested ..great work..tks from canada..jim kozmik..blue realm tv series

 

[David Rasberry]

Camera's got 4.4 micron pixels (27.03mm sensor width/6144 pixels) so 4K would be 4096 * (27.03/6144) = 18.02mm wide and 2K would be 2048 * (27.03/6144) = 9.01mm wide. m4/3 is 18mm wide so bang on for 4K. Regular 16mm is 10.26mm wide so 2K is just a smidge smaller.

You can go the other way and calculate a theoretical extraction's resolution. Here's Super 16: 12.52mm * (6144/27.03) = 2.8K.

I look forward to using the 16mm glass from my Bolex for 2k. Will there be something like a 2.5k -2.8k mode that would work for S16/1" format glass? Bolex vignettes slightly in the corners at 1080p on some 16mm glass, 5 micron pixels.
I have a really nice Angenieux 12-120 HEC that is my usual run and gun lens. Vignettes a bit below 20mm or so, but covers 2k 2.4:1 scope OK without vignetting.

 

[WesG]

So first thing to know, at the moment Komodo takes about 20 seconds to boot, no biggie. As things are added and/optimized that might go up or down.

hi Phil,

Thanks so much for your testing and all the sharing of info.

Appreciate hearing about the boot up time and be very interested to see how this tracks. This is in fact a real biggie for a lot of small crew, independent operators - in particular in reality/documentary productions.

thanks

 

[Nick Morrison]

Camera's got 4.4 micron pixels (27.03mm sensor width/6144 pixels) so 4K would be 4096 * (27.03/6144) = 18.02mm wide and 2K would be 2048 * (27.03/6144) = 9.01mm wide. m4/3 is 18mm wide so bang on for 4K. Regular 16mm is 10.26mm wide so 2K is just a smidge smaller.

You can go the other way and calculate a theoretical extraction's resolution. Here's Super 16: 12.52mm * (6144/27.03) = 2.8K.

Aaron love these calculations.

Here's a quick preview of an 8K Komodo Sensor:

8192 * (27.03/6144) = 36.04

Notice it's EXACTLY Vista Vision. Not sure if that's a coincidence or not, but worth noting.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Aaron love these calculations.

Here's a quick preview of an 8K Komodo Sensor:

8192 * (27.03/6144) = 36.04

Notice it's EXACTLY Vista Vision. Not sure if that's a coincidence or not, but worth noting.

Yes, I've been giddy over that since they announced the sensor size of Komodo. My brain immediately went to DSMC3 and what's theoretically possible. An 8K full frame global shutter with no cmos smear would be the perfect step up from Helium for me. I'd also love if they decided to do a "gemini" treatment on it and go for taller than 1.9:1 since several companies are now doing anamorphic for larger formats. Thinking even further into the future I would love if they just did a 10K by 10K wider-than-full-frame square canvas where you simply extract what you need from it -- essentially a multi-aspect ratio sensor with surface area to spare. But that's all a discussion for another time.

 

[Devin Block]

Question for anyone who has a Komodo currently. Does the 12G SDI output (or 4K ProRes recording) support 60p downscaled or only 60p in sensor crop mode?

 

[Nick Morrison]

Yes, I've been giddy over that since they announced the sensor size of Komodo. My brain immediately went to DSMC3 and what's theoretically possible. An 8K full frame global shutter with no cmos smear would be the perfect step up from Helium for me. I'd also love if they decided to do a "gemini" treatment on it and go for taller than 1.9:1 since several companies are now doing anamorphic for larger formats. Thinking even further into the future I would love if they just did a 10K by 10K wider-than-full-frame square canvas where you simply extract what you need from it -- essentially a multi-aspect ratio sensor with surface area to spare. But that's all a discussion for another time.

Aaron, I've been thinking EXACTLY the same thing.

An 8K Komodo "Vista Vision" sensor that's 4:3 (for anamorphic).

And then a 10K Komodo, that's 4:3 and 45mm wide.

The extra DR from additional K's is also exciting...