The First Komodo Out in the Wild

[Phil Holland]

Hello Phil,

Thanks a million for all the Komodo testing and posting about said camera. Very gratifying and exciting indeed. I hope you and those close to you are fairing ok given today's climate of uncertainty. I had a simple tech question about the Komodo. I think I saw this posted before in another thread but it got lost in the ether. With the beta version you are using for said tests, what are the available frame rates when shooting .r3d at various resolutions? Thank you, in advance, for your time.

It will easier to post the max fps shortly once everything is in camera. There are 3 major formats in camera:

17:9 = DCI 1.9:1 essentially
16:9 = UHD and HD
2.4:1 = RED's widescreen ratio, which actually comes out to 2.37:1 for floating point math reasons. DCI Scope actually is 2.39:1 so you traditionally crop off the top and bottom a smidge, less of an issue in the realm of digital delivery. I've seen projects actually finishing out 2.37:1 for sure.

It's important to understand that Komodo is indeed a tight and refined ecosystem, so none of the bazillion formats found on DSMC2. Notably missing is the popular and common 2:1, which really is just a smidge of a top/bottom extraction from 17:9 when you think about it.

From there you have your major resolution landmarks and I've asked for the even and .5K options to be in there as they allow for image coverage and exploring certain optics for things like Super 16mm filmmaking.

If anybody here is new to the RED ecosystem, as you window down on the sensor (smaller physically format size) you get higher FPS. So at 6K 17:9 today, it's 40fps, but 2K is significantly higher fps. Again, once all that is fully added, basically what I'm saying is there's more formats coming, I'll post a bit old think likely to PHFX | tools formatKey like I have now for the other cameras.

And no, you can't have 2K full sensor. RED, like all proper raw digital cinema cameras, doesn't do any pixel binning or line skipping. There are ways to explore some things, but as of yet, not really being done due to QC issues that often come with that. Thought I'd be curious to see if the global shutter tech allows for more exploration there. Sounds like a fun couple week R&D project for one of the engineers.

Anamorphic at the moment isn't in the camera in the latest firmware, which is partially why I'm doing all that in the monitor. In my case I am desqueezing in post and performing a frame extraction, much like when working with film honestly when scanning in the Super 35mm negative.

Here's what Phil said before:

I would like some clarification though because DSMC2 does 422 HQ at 4K, but you can get 4444 XQ in 2K. I wonder if Komodo can do the same or if it's just doing 422 HQ max in all resolutions. I'm also curious to know where the ProRes framerate limitations happen as well. In DSMC2, we could only ever get 30 fps in 4K ProRes and 120 in 2K ProRes. If Komodo can do 4K prores above 30 that's good news for feeding 6K at 40 and 5K at 48 into it.

I don't think it has the juice to do 4444 XQ data rate-wise, but I will say at the moment it's 422 HQ in 4K or 2K at various frame rates. I honestly haven't tested ProRes much, but will dive in a bit more. I certainly know many people just need to deliver ProRes straight away for some projects, but if I had a bullwhip and could just sort of make people use REDCODE RAW in most situations, well yeah It's a nice thing to have and when you need it, you really need it. For me in particular, it's also likely going to be the least used feature because I'm all about that raw workflow.

sorry Phil maybe I lost the thread on the prores format ..
Can you tell me the prores formats available?
2k, 4k max hq? at all frame rates? or is limited.

422 HQ and 422 straight. I'l confirm again, but yes at all frame rates in 4K and 2K.

If filming at 6K it will scale the footage to 4K or 2K like you'd expect.

 

[Joesef o.]

It will easier to post the max fps shortly once everything is in camera. There are 3 major formats in camera:

17:9 = DCI 1.9:1 essentially
16:9 = UHD and HD
2.4:1 = RED's widescreen ratio, which actually comes out to 2.37:1 for floating point math reasons. DCI Scope actually is 2.39:1 so you traditionally crop off the top and bottom a smidge, less of an issue in the realm of digital delivery. I've seen projects actually finishing out 2.37:1 for sure.

It's important to understand that Komodo is indeed a tight and refined ecosystem, so none of the bazillion formats found on DSMC2. Notably missing is the popular and common 2:1, which really is just a smidge of a top/bottom extraction from 17:9 when you think about it.

From there you have your major resolution landmarks and I've asked for the even and .5K options to be in there as they allow for image coverage and exploring certain optics for things like Super 16mm filmmaking.

If anybody here is new to the RED ecosystem, as you window down on the sensor (smaller physically format size) you get higher FPS. So at 6K 17:9 today, it's 40fps, but 2K is significantly higher fps. Again, once all that is fully added, basically what I'm saying is there's more formats coming, I'll post a bit old think likely to PHFX | tools formatKey like I have now for the other cameras.

And no, you can't have 2K full sensor. RED, like all proper raw digital cinema cameras, doesn't do any pixel binning or line skipping. There are ways to explore some things, but as of yet, not really being done due to QC issues that often come with that. Thought I'd be curious to see if the global shutter tech allows for more exploration there. Sounds like a fun couple week R&D project for one of the engineers.

Anamorphic at the moment isn't in the camera in the latest firmware, which is partially why I'm doing all that in the monitor. In my case I am desqueezing in post and performing a frame extraction, much like when working with film honestly when scanning in the Super 35mm negative.



I don't think it has the juice to do 4444 XQ data rate-wise, but I will say at the moment it's 422 HQ in 4K or 2K at various frame rates. I honestly haven't tested ProRes much, but will dive in a bit more. I certainly know many people just need to deliver ProRes straight away for some projects, but if I had a bullwhip and could just sort of make people use REDCODE RAW in most situations, well yeah It's a nice thing to have and when you need it, you really need it. For me in particular, it's also likely going to be the least used feature because I'm all about that raw workflow.



422 HQ and 422 straight. I'l confirm again, but yes at all frame rates in 4K and 2K.

If filming at 6K it will scale the footage to 4K or 2K like you'd expect.

Just for clarity sake, are you saying that in prores mode you can record the full size image of the sensor and the camera will downres internally to a 4K or 2K capture without croping the sensor? So s35mm sensor image going to card at 2K downres?

If so thats great for projects that don't high res images or super quick internet turnarounds

 

[Phil Holland]

Just for clarity sake, are you saying that in prores mode you can record the full size image of the sensor and the camera will downres internally to a 4K or 2K capture without croping the sensor? So s35mm sensor image going to card at 2K downres?

If so thats great for projects that don't high res images or super quick internet turnarounds

Yes and that is essentially the principle it's designed around in DSMC2 and Komodo cameras.

Producing more or less standard delivery resolution mezzanine codec files.

Job hires you, need to deliver UHD 4k 3840x2160? You'll have the ability to shoot something like 6K 16:9 or 5K 16:9 and it will properly downsample to that deliverable.

 

[Joesef o.]

Thanks, yeah just didn't know if the Komodo followed in the DSMC2s footsteps with this, which is nice. Having a quick 1080p/2k preres file without cropping the sensor is great.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

*snicker* Don't ask me about what I"m using in the photos below. Yet.

I've been tested lots of gear now for about the last 90 days, gah I can't believe that, but as is the way of the pandemic. Some stuff I can show, some I cannot. This week a few more announcements will allow for breaking of the embargo. Next week too!




As of this second I haven't noticed a truly discernible power draw difference between rolling and not. If it is there, it's slight. A 98Wh batter gets you about 4 hours of runtime. Bare in mind this is before Stormtroopers and Vaders enter the fray.


Two quickies tonight.

I am indeed testing and essentially announcing the SmallHD Focus SDI Pro. Was allowed to finally chat about it publicly. It is similar to the current Focus lineup, but has a couple MAJOR differences that will be relevant to those who ride on the backs of Komodos:

I've been also further exploring getting sound into this little bad boy. Today's exercise in creative rigging was the Sonosax M2D2, which is a tidy and powerful pream/mixer. No recording features, so similar in some ways to the Beachtek stuff, but a significantly upgrade in quality and features. The audio in my first sample clip was fed through the line out of a Sound Devices Mix-Pre 10 II. I've tested the Internal Mic as well as general on board microphones. Some of those could use a decent clean boost in gain, Komodo does that, but a dedicated one allows for far more freedom.

Outside of that, I hope to show the breakout I/O box shortly. It allows for jamming and sending of Timecode and other good things.

Oh, and in the above two workflows I'm exploring off the beaten path anamorphic setups. Using the SmallHD to Desqueeze to monitor as well as a frame guide as I'm using the full 6K 17:9 image from Komodo. Useful to roll this way for reframing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, enough about the Komodo. Now what about this new smallHD monitor that you speak of...?

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, enough about the Komodo. Now what about this new smallHD monitor that you speak of...?

You won't have any news as he has a NDA I think... But while waiting I can share the M2D2 fonctionnality for DSLR use ;-)

 

[Phil Moreton]

Surely Wooden Camera will release one of their audio boxes for Komodo?
Otherwise that Sonosax looks pretty good.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Surely Wooden Camera will release one of their audio boxes for Komodo?
Otherwise that Sonosax looks pretty good.

Dsmc2 A-box should work fine

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Dsmc2 A-box should work fine

Different tools for different jobs ;-)

 

[Phil Holland]

Dsmc2 A-box should work fine

I'm certainly curious what WC will come up with for Komodo actually. But as Patrick said, it's a pretty different tool. The M2D2 has a whole bunch of features like compression, limiting, etc. Also boosts to +75dB, perhaps more if I explore something else today. That's a bit crazy, but I do crazy things.

Speaking of which.

Here's Komodo with a Speedbooster and that fancy new Zhongyi 50mm f/0.95. With the focal reducer that nets a wider FOV at about f/0.7.




Interestingly, this less has a fairly weird design and though we don't talk about reducers much in depth, this isn't an scientific or astrology site , the projected image circle is actually larger than I expected. For instance, this lens covers Monstro 8K no problem, but the focus reduced image is actually producing an image circle that's a bit larger. Which causes issues at 6K 17:9 when stopping down beyond f/2.8 as well as an entirely different vignette performance.

This for me was mainly an experiment in hyper-fast optics. I need to measure the actual T-Stop here, but I suspect it's at T1 or a hair faster center frame.

 

[andrewhake]

Hey Phil who makes those coiled right angle SDI cables? (nvm just typed the same thing into Google and found a billion options)

Also very interested to see what that Dtap is connected to in your last photo. Have been wondering if there will be good ways to power everything from a single batter and it looks like that is definitely going to be the case. The DC-in on the Komodo is the same as the DSMC2 correct? Just wondering if I might be able to use the Red's v-lock belt clip adapter plate for when I want to mount the Komodo in a compact space in a car or something but be able to power it and a few other things with that adapter plate I already have.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Hey Phil who makes those coiled right angle SDI cables? (nvm just typed the same thing into Google and found a billion options)

Also very interested to see what that Dtap is connected to in your last photo. Have been wondering if there will be good ways to power everything from a single batter and it looks like that is definitely going to be the case. The DC-in on the Komodo is the same as the DSMC2 correct? Just wondering if I might be able to use the Red's v-lock belt clip adapter plate for when I want to mount the Komodo in a compact space in a car or something but be able to power it and a few other things with that adapter plate I already have.

Not the same cable as DSMC2. It’s just a 2pin lemo to dtap. It the lemo polarity is reversed than the regular type.

 

[Phil Holland]

Hey Phil who makes those coiled right angle SDI cables? (nvm just typed the same thing into Google and found a billion options)

Also very interested to see what that Dtap is connected to in your last photo. Have been wondering if there will be good ways to power everything from a single batter and it looks like that is definitely going to be the case. The DC-in on the Komodo is the same as the DSMC2 correct? Just wondering if I might be able to use the Red's v-lock belt clip adapter plate for when I want to mount the Komodo in a compact space in a car or something but be able to power it and a few other things with that adapter plate I already have.

The DC IN is actually a different protocol, needs to be actually. It's a 2-pin Lemo. Jarred shared the Pins recently:

Heh. And at this point I can confirm I did some rewiring the first week of Komodo being in my life to feed it power. Still have a couple D-Taps I need to rip apart and rewire.


I view Komodo in a few different ways. Mostly this equates to how you want to rig the camera. Lightest weight option and most portable is indeed the BP Batteries. If that is of the highest order to your needs, Komodo will blow your mind in terms of how small you can rig it. I'm not exaggerating when I have rigged fully at <4lbs.

Beyond that is the general production day mindset. In which case you will likely be loading up a few accessories on there. Powering everything will then become either a choice between dedicated batteries on the devices/accessories or just feeding everything likely through a V-Mount or G-Mount plate of some sort. The one in the picture above I can't quite talk about yet, but it's a decent option. You've also seen the Wooden Camera one on my Komodo, also a good option. I sent two back to manufacturers I didn't like for reasons (if I don't like stuff you won't see it and I certainly won't use it), but you'll be spoiled for good power distro options for Komodo relatively soon. D-Tap is the way for power to accessories really, nothing new there. Most good options have 2-3 D-Taps on there to help feed monitors, recorders, motors, on board lights for interviews, etc. Even the batteries themselves often have a D-Tap or two if you need to make a rig with lots of dangle potential. USB ports are making a valid appearance for the first time in my cinematic journey in over 20 years and actually are useful too.

The good news is Komodo's power draw is pretty low, but as I've mentioned in particular some of these bright LCDs, which are useful for daylight monitoring, suck energy. It's a fascinating balancing act between camera size, accessorizing, and camera uptime. I find myself making a choice everyday when I go out if I'm tossing a 5" "regular" LCD or OLED even or a bigger and brighter 7" based on just how big I want my rig and how long I want it to run.

This might not be mind blowing news as this is how it works in some camps, but I've fully hoped onto the DSMC2 system with all the cable-less stuff and I haven't had much of this rigging in my life outside of the occasional timecode box lately. At the same time, Komodo is the smallest thing in the world that makes images like it does with the feature it supports.

Oddly fun for a guy like me, but also early on a crazy adventure in figuring it all out!

Before I had various base plates for instance I made a janky riser with a cheese plate to the GDU Touch N' Go back into a 19mm rod support because the first 48 hours with the camera were that weird. Now I have good and better options for standard working and mounting worlds. Komodo oddly reminds me the most of Dragon 8K VV because nearly everything I did that first year with that camera was new. Komodo has just been a much, much more compressed timeline. More happened in 2 weeks from accessory manufacturers than I've ever seen before. Sometimes machining bits for me to test out and overnight shipping for me to test out. Hot and fast paced June really. Shortly you'll see everybody's offerings though.

They way this used to work before is some crazy shot or film would need something and a camera needed to be rigged in a weird way, I then needed to hike over to Panavision to beg a machinist there or a freelancer to make me a part, this was before CNC was so readily available, so drills and metal lathes, and boom I'd have some sort of plate in a few weeks. That is now happening sometimes same day these days. Insane.

 

[J. Orlandi]

Hey Phill, are you hacking up Teradek 2 pin lemo cables to reverse their polarity to use for komodo or something else?

 

[Phil Holland]

Hey Phill, are you hacking up Teradek 2 pin lemo cables to reverse their polarity to use for komodo or something else?

Not those. I had some other random stuff here that was D-Tap to 2-Pin. Tried plugging it in, then took a reading, and whoop there it is. Wire cutter, soldering iron, mischief managed.

Oh, to answer the coiled SDI stuff. I'm certain some of these are from SmallHD and likely Alvin Cables. I very literally have several boxes of SDI cables for various kits.

 

[andrewhake]

The DC IN is actually a different protocol, needs to be actually. It's a 2-pin Lemo. Jarred shared the Pins recently:

Heh. And at this point I can confirm I did some rewiring the first week of Komodo being in my life to feed it power. Still have a couple D-Taps I need to rip apart and rewire.


I view Komodo in a few different ways. Mostly this equates to how you want to rig the camera. Lightest weight option and most portable is indeed the BP Batteries. If that is of the highest order to your needs, Komodo will blow your mind in terms of how small you can rig it. I'm not exaggerating when I have rigged fully at <4lbs.

Beyond that is the general production day mindset. In which case you will likely be loading up a few accessories on there. Powering everything will then become either a choice between dedicated batteries on the devices/accessories or just feeding everything likely through a V-Mount or G-Mount plate of some sort. The one in the picture above I can't quite talk about yet, but it's a decent option. You've also seen the Wooden Camera one on my Komodo, also a good option. I sent two back to manufacturers I didn't like for reasons (if I don't like stuff you won't see it and I certainly won't use it), but you'll be spoiled for good power distro options for Komodo relatively soon. D-Tap is the way for power to accessories really, nothing new there. Most good options have 2-3 D-Taps on there to help feed monitors, recorders, motors, on board lights for interviews, etc. Even the batteries themselves often have a D-Tap or two if you need to make a rig with lots of dangle potential. USB ports are making a valid appearance for the first time in my cinematic journey in over 20 years and actually are useful too.

The good news is Komodo's power draw is pretty low, but as I've mentioned in particular some of these bright LCDs, which are useful for daylight monitoring, suck energy. It's a fascinating balancing act between camera size, accessorizing, and camera uptime. I find myself making a choice everyday when I go out if I'm tossing a 5" "regular" LCD or OLED even or a bigger and brighter 7" based on just how big I want my rig and how long I want it to run.

This might not be mind blowing news as this is how it works in some camps, but I've fully hoped onto the DSMC2 system with all the cable-less stuff and I haven't had much of this rigging in my life outside of the occasional timecode box lately. At the same time, Komodo is the smallest thing in the world that makes images like it does with the feature it supports.

Oddly fun for a guy like me, but also early on a crazy adventure in figuring it all out!

Before I had various base plates for instance I made a janky riser with a cheese plate to the GDU Touch N' Go back into a 19mm rod support because the first 48 hours with the camera were that weird. Now I have good and better options for standard working and mounting worlds. Komodo oddly reminds me the most of Dragon 8K VV because nearly everything I did that first year with that camera was new. Komodo has just been a much, much more compressed timeline. More happened in 2 weeks from accessory manufacturers than I've ever seen before. Sometimes machining bits for me to test out and overnight shipping for me to test out. Hot and fast paced June really. Shortly you'll see everybody's offerings though.

They way this used to work before is some crazy shot or film would need something and a camera needed to be rigged in a weird way, I then needed to hike over to Panavision to beg a machinist there or a freelancer to make me a part, this was before CNC was so readily available, so drills and metal lathes, and boom I'd have some sort of plate in a few weeks. That is now happening sometimes same day these days. Insane.

Nice thanks for that.

I suppose I should probably just hold tight before I go buying up a bunch of accessories since there will probably be a lot of nice items to solve for things rather than figuring it out on my own. I mostly plan to use the Komodo with as little gack hanging off it as possible and have it mounted in tight spaces. I am actually thinking I want to build a small little power and monitor bag (like audio bag sized) that I can just run a few cables out of to the camera to get what I need. Very much looking forward to seeing what other accessories Red has planned for Komodo.

 

[andrewhake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foKy1N-mCz4

Is this what you have strapped onto the back of your Komodo in those teasers? Looks like a nice little backpack.

 

[J. Orlandi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foKy1N-mCz4

Is this what you have strapped onto the back of your Komodo in those teasers? Looks like a nice little backpack.

that cage looks awesome! Also did tilta get their own Army Green colored Komodo!?? Damn I want that color now haha.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Phil -

Maybe you've answered this already, but... how is it having your hands near the exhaust? I just had to re-use a Scarlet M-X on a shoot a couple days ago where the top handle was mounted over the fan, and boy did my whole hand start to feel the burn after a few minutes!

 

[Phil Holland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foKy1N-mCz4

Is this what you have strapped onto the back of your Komodo in those teasers? Looks like a nice little backpack.

I guess at this point, yes I can confirm I've been testing it and have it here. I've been testing lots of cages, battery plates, mounts, etc. Like literally all the accessories coming really. I'm waiting for the embargo to lift to post shots of it.

Fair warning, I'm also mixing and matching accessory ecosystems as well, which is fun and occasionally frustrating

that cage looks awesome! Also did tilta get their own Army Green colored Komodo!?? Damn I want that color now haha.

They have a Black and Pewter-ish Bronze finish coming. I chose the black stuff because it never goes out of style!

Phil -

Maybe you've answered this already, but... how is it having your hands near the exhaust? I just had to re-use a Scarlet M-X on a shoot a couple days ago where the top handle was mounted over the fan, and boy did my whole hand start to feel the burn after a few minutes!

Not to shabby. It's a warmth sort of sensation. I actually test that stuff by putting the camera next to my cheek (on my face) like for a shoulder cam setup to see if it's too aggressive or not.

OH! And on the topic of that. I previously thought Komodo had "one fan". Oddly while filming at night I shined a flashlight through it and there seem to be two little tiny fans in there in vertical orientation. I like that I don't see them or really here them.