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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Big Questions

Zeb B

Zeb B

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Questions for us Red guys might be:

1. Is the market for 5K big enough to support a dedicated industry over the long term?
2. In a world dominated by YouTube, WalMart and MacDonald's - does the average American really care about the difference between 5K and 1080?
3. Can we assume if there is a large market for 5K that Canon, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Arri et all will continue to be all thumbs about planning and execution?
4. Is Apple's move from FCP 7 to FCP X a sign that the real money to be made is in mass market products (Scarlet and below) - not pro level complexity (Epic and above)?
5. What's next after the big sensor / raw file concept - which is a one time bump provided by moving standards from film to digital?
6. Who is the "black swan" for Red and their loyal followers? I'll bet it's not Arri but something off the radar now.

Careful my fellow Reds about being too smug about being the cool kids who know how to use the current complex technology - there is a bunch of FCP 7 pro editors who just got their years of experience and certifications blown up by Apple with the introduction of FCP X which, with Magic Bullet etc, will allow any 17 year old make films that Red Bull might buy. Democratization of technology and reduction of cost builds market share at the expense of exclusivity for existing users.

Point is: Dramatic change creates opportunity which can be unpredictable and cruel. Careful what you wish for - a $10K Scarlet would let a bunch of creative kids into our clubhouse.
 
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I trust Jim when he says the future is 4K. I'm not sure at what screen size you would begin to see the difference between 1080p and 4K, but I bet that TV manufacturers will make 4K the next big push after 3D has died down a bit and LCD/OLED panel pricing comes down.

That said, there is no amount of resolution that will make up for poor execution (lighting/sound/acting). These things don't get fixed with a 4K camera purchase. I wouldn't worry too much about letting kids into the creative clubhouse because if they were meant to be there, they'll be there. It's just now they'll be there in 4K.
 
Technology is a fast moving train. A $500 PC and a $99 NLE software package will put more creative power on your desk today than a quarter million dollar online suite could provide in the 1980's. But that won't make you an artist. The cream will rise to the top. Highly creative skilled artists and craftsmen will always command a premium price if they market themselves reasonably well. It is not the technology itself that will set you apart, but what you do with it. Technology is but a means to an end.

It wasn't necessary for cinematographers to shoot 35mm or Super 16 for major TV series in the 80's after Betacam matured, but the programs that were shot on film are the ones that are still being rerun.
It isn't necessary to shoot high resolution raw digital footage for most uses today, but the potential image quality makes it much more suitable for release in any format now or in the future. It makes it possible to reuse footage in ways no standard encoded video camera format can ever do.

There are whole new worlds of fine art quality imagery that these cameras are making possible well beyond what one would normally consider as film or television production. We have only seen hints of what is possible so far.
 
Point is: Dramatic change creates opportunity which can be unpredictable and cruel. Careful what you wish for - a $10K Scarlet would let a bunch of creative kids into our clubhouse.
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really? kind of egocentric don't ya think? A high end camera is not going to take anything away from those with talent..
 
Even good quality 1080p in the home is soft on a decent sized screen....

Graeme
 
We are already seeing 2k televisions available to the consumer with the promise of 4k to come. Yes, I believe there will be a market, as much if not more than the current market for 3d sets.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Even good quality 1080p in the home is soft on a decent sized screen....

Graeme
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Que?! I own a 3 year old samsung 46in LCD and blurays look awesome via ps3.

I have been happier with my setup at home then with the pixelated digital projection down the street.
 
enrique blein said:
That's the whole point, to obliterate this "clubhouse" attitude once and for all: lock the doors and swallow the key!
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Got that right. With tools like the Epic the playing field has been leveled. From what I've seen and where I'm standing this is a good thing. Let the games begin!
 
Josh Beadle said:
Careful my fellow Reds about being too smug about being the cool kids who know how to use the current complex technology - there is a bunch of FCP 7 pro editors who just got their years of experience and certifications blown up by Apple with the introduction of FCP X which, with Magic Bullet etc, will allow any 17 year old make films that Red Bull might buy. Democratization of technology and reduction of cost builds market share at the expense of exclusivity for existing users.

Point is: Dramatic change creates opportunity which can be unpredictable and cruel. Careful what you wish for - a $10K Scarlet would let a bunch of creative kids into our clubhouse.
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Wait wait wait..... Are you saying RED should price the Scarlet out of the hands of younger people just because you want exclusivity?

I thought one of the reasons RED cameras have become so popular is because they are amazing cameras at amazing prices?

They have open the door for more and more people who may not have multi-milllion dollar budgets to shoot quality images.

And you want to put a stop to that just because you want to be the only kid on the block with the fancy new bike?

I'm going to go ahead and stop there for now because if I go any further I'm probably going to do or say something that's going to prevent me from getting a Scarlet... And I can't let that happen....
 
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Tom Hamilton said:
Well, yes, I suppose so.

I do know the wildlife and natural history guys are always looking for a bigger, better format to display those things they see out there; those deep, far, and dangerous places they go to get the shots, the very special ones that reveal our planet's secrets in new and astonishing ways. You Tube isn't going to cut it, never has, not by a long shot, might as well order a Big Mac with extra sauce, sit in front of your puter the whole twisted night through. Morning must be tough.

If it's video quick cash you're after, and that seems the case my friend, lots of options out there camera-wise, tweet that to yer heart's content, and best of luck.

If yer game is splashing impossibly high rez, jaw-dropping images across a huge screen, opening new universes, to a planetary audience eyes wide open, well, you've landed yerself in the right forum.

Join the team, or on yer sorry bike, mate.
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Already on the Team . . . mate. You're reading the questions as an attack on the fort and defending, in a condescending tone, rather than reflecting on their substance.
 
Tim I can see where Josh is coming from to a point.. Like it or not most people that purchased an EPIC are making business decisions. And a lot of them hope to get a return on their investment through rental. A Scarlet that matches an EPIC a little too closely will destroy the EPIC'S rental rates, and thereby make it tougher to get the money back. This is not true for everyone, but it's true for some.

I want the Scarlet to come out, but I also want to see some very definite lines that devide the two cameras. If those lines are too blurred, then those of us who jump into the Epic to get all of its features (Features that we are assuming will NOT be on the Scarlet) could get hosed.

In short, I hope Scarlet is a cool camera.. But I also hope it's NOT an Epic

Jay
 
Tim Nitsch said:
Wait wait wait..... Are you saying RED should price the Scarlet out of the hands of younger people just because you want exclusivity?

I thought one of the reasons RED cameras have become so popular is because they are amazing cameras at amazing prices?

They have open the door for more and more people who may not have multi-milllion dollar budgets to shoot quality images.

And you want to put a stop to that just because you want to be the only kid on the block with the fancy new bike?

I'm going to go ahead and stop there for now because if I go any further I'm probably going to do or say something that's going to prevent me from getting a Scarlet... And I can't let that happen....
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Again, missing the point. I am not taking a position against 17 year olds or hording technology (as if). Just saying that there are always unintended consequences to any radical change - especially one that potentially puts "Shot on Red" in the hands of 50,000 regular folks. Ask any still photographer what has happened to rates in the last 5 years. Every model has a boyfriend with a Canon which, when set on Program and lens flared (gag), takes a printable shot. The questions are meant to provoke a thoughtful dialog about how we might anticipate these and other changes to create sustainable value for ourselves in spite of mass adoption of a now very exclusive brand.

Also, I'm just curious about the amazing lust and desire for this magic Scarlet device. What can it do that can't be done today with existing Red equipment? We have no freakin idea what the final specs are so . . . why so horny Joe?
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Tim I can see where Josh is coming from to a point.. Like it or not most people that purchased an EPIC are making business decisions. And a lot of them hope to get a return on their investment through rental. A Scarlet that matches an EPIC a little too closely will destroy the EPIC'S rental rates, and thereby make it tougher to get the money back. This is not true for everyone, but it's true for some.

I want the Scarlet to come out, but I also want to see some very definite lines that devide the two cameras. If those lines are too blurred, then those of us who jump into the Epic to get all of its features (Features that we are assuming will NOT be on the Scarlet) could get hosed.

In short, I hope Scarlet is a cool camera.. But I also hope it's NOT an Epic

Jay
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That's the rub of filling out the line. With one product there are no worries about price points and cannibalization. From here the calculus gets more involved for everyone.

BTW: heading over to look at your DVD's now. I have a need for both AF100 and Red training. Thanks for producing them!
 
With all due respect Josh you are taking the point of affordable 4k wrong. To be honest I haven't seen your reel so I cannot judge but, If you are afraid of the 'regular' folk having 4k available and producing better images than you are then I'm afraid you are not working hard enough on the basics. I'm pretty sure you are very capable in your field and remember that high res cameras in the hands of non professionals will just produce very large and sharp non professional looking pictures.

The concept at Red with Scarlet and Epic is to push the little dedicated guys like me and many others like me I guess and give us that little extra nudge to leap forward in the Industry. Always if we work hard enough. Get the basics bad ( lighting, sound, composition, story ) and you wont break through not even with an IMAX camera. Red is amazing as it opens up all boundaries. Knowing that I can afford a camera Peter Jackson is using on the Hobbit inspires me. I am not saying I can produce the following HObbit. Far from It. Its just that if I make my homeweork right, hook up with the right team and work hard enough I can produce some truly stunning Images. At last the only limit is our imagination and skill not the equipment we afford to buy. And that is a truly encouraging thought.
 
Dan Kanes said:
1000 monkeys with 1000 typewriters will (probably) not write the great American novel.

They could write some decent music video treatments though.
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Agreed:
#1 Music Artist = Justin Bieber
#1 Top Grossing Movies = not Oscar winners
#1 "News" Source = Fox
#1 TV Show = 2.5 Men (without ma man Chaz!!!)
America doesn't seem to mind crap at times. Remember VHS vs Betamax?
 
Josh Beadle said:
1. Is the market for 5K big enough to support a dedicated industry over the long term?
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"I think there is a world market for maybe five 5K productions." --Not really said by Thomas John Watson in 1943.

"480p ought to be enough for anybody." -- Not really said by Bill Gates in 1981

:D
 
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