The best $5,750 you can spend [updated]

[Jannard]

There is also a known calibration error on the M-X sensor used for this test. The results will only get better.

Jim

 

[Brook Willard]

It is interesting to see how mature the image processing for the M sensor has become. Noisy in comparison, sure... but very consistent.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

So if you had one option, what would it be?

If I were to have just one, It would be an Epic. I think in both the short term and the long it will command more money and respect amongst both both DPs and producers therefore having a better ROI (return on investment)! But it also very much depends on your location and type of work you do. I live near LA and my perspective is mid-budget commercials... I have 2 Reds now and I plan to have at least 3-5 in some form.

 

[Brook Willard]

I have uploaded the TIFFs and put their links in the appropriate post. Enjoy!

I can't wait to see the MX processing mature. As you can see from the pictures, the MX shifts color in deep underexposure when processed as I did. It also loses contrast, turning white instead of dark [as you might expect]. That's either a sensor calibration issue or [more likely considering how dramatic the shift is] a processing issue. I mean, who's really ever going to process something at 6,400/FLUT 8? We're looking at modes that aren't really meant for human consumption. As such, don't look at the dramatic underexposures in terms of how they appear aesthetically when compared to the M stills... look at them in terms of the low noise and maintained detail.

Color and contrast can be fixed... but noise character and detail are indicative of what we're really dealing with here.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

What's most striking is that the blacks have no noise!

Jim HTF did you make this happen? Amazing S.

 

[PatC]

Thank you Brook for this awesome post.

 

[Rick Darge]

Most impressive. However, what is the purple tinting going on, beg. at -4 stops and +2 & +3 stops on the MX in the daytime TIFF?

 

[Rick Darge]

It's pretty amazing to see how the MX handles the noise. The picture fades out like a fog rather than a hail of colored snow.

 

[Jannard]

Most impressive. However, what is the purple tinting going on, beg. at -4 stops and +2 & +3 stops on the MX in the daytime TIFF?

Camera calibration error... as I said.

Jim

 

[Rick Darge]

Cool. Another question I had that wasn't answered on Red Day because I forgot to ask it was, how does the Red One MX sensor compare to the Epic-X sensor other than 5k and better compression. Will we expect the same noise floor/ISO range or a bit better?

 

[Jannard]

Cool. Another question I had that wasn't answered on Red Day because I forgot to ask it was, how does the Red One MX sensor compare to the Epic-X sensor other than 5k and better compression. Will we expect the same noise floor/ISO range or a bit better?

They are exactly the same... it IS the EPIC sensor (M-X) in these R1s. The electronics are the only thing that hold back the R1 from 5K, frame rates and REDCODE numbers.

Whatever improvements we can make (hard to believe) will apply to both EPIC and R1 M-X cameras. The best news is that they can be shot side by side with virtually the same color and latitude.

Jim

 

[Jannard]

Before anyone panics (too late?) on the calibration error... it only can be seen when stressing the exposure beyond normal limits. The calibration error is very small at normal exposures (can't be seen)... but grows exponentially as you move dramatically either way from center... like over/under tests at the extreme (like Brook's test).

The long and short is... shoot the current build and it looks fantastic. Shoot +3 or -5 and you will see the error. We expect a fix soon, certainly before the side by side tests with the new Arri cameras...

It is easy to see why others are comfortable at 13 stops and we think there is more to be found.

Jim

 

[JanneJansson]

MX looks really exciting. According to the mxd.tif and the mxt.tif, the new sensor have a totally new noise "look". Noise don't overwhelm the image, but is there very pleasant all way down to extremely under exposed. This opens the possibility to save footage shoot way-way under. The rule of not overexpose RED, seems really true about MX

 

[Jannard]

MX looks really exciting. According to the mxd.tif and the mxt.tif, the new sensor have a totally new noise "look". Noise don't overwhelm the image, but is there very pleasant all way down to extremely under exposed. This opens the possibility to save footage shoot way-way under. The rule of not overexpose RED, seems really true about MX

Yes... please don't over-expose.

Jim

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

They are exactly the same... it IS the EPIC sensor (M-X) in these R1s. The electronics are the only thing that hold back the R1 from 5K, frame rates and REDCODE numbers.

Whatever improvements we can make (hard to believe) will apply to both EPIC and R1 M-X cameras. The best news is that they can be shot side by side with virtually the same color and latitude.

Jim

Thanks Jim.

That's exactly I wanted to hear.

Amazing news.

 

[Evin Grant]

After having some fun with charts tonight I can't wait to get #199 back with her new sensor. I've shot probably the best looking footage of my career using the Red One and the possibilities with this new sensor seem like a whole new ballgame.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Oh my. Look at just the Blue channel in -3. That's going to make keying better. The dreaded blue blobiness is just good ol' fashioned noise.

 

[Cail Young]

After having some fun with charts tonight I can't wait to get #199 back with her new sensor.

#199, you say... Excellent news.

 

[Brook Willard]

Before anyone panics (too late?) on the calibration error... it only can be seen when stressing the exposure beyond normal limits. The calibration error is very small at normal exposures (can't be seen)... but grows exponentially as you move dramatically either way from center... like over/under tests at the extreme (like Brook's test).

Everybody should keep Jim's point in mind when looking at that particular bracketing test. As I posted earlier, don't look at the images in terms of aesthetics - aesthetics will come. Look at them in terms of noise character, quantity, detail and dynamic range. The point of this particular test is not to push the sensor to its breaking point in its infancy but to get a window into what RED has delivered.

So yeah, don't panic. I'm not!

[PS - if the colors at extreme underexposures concern anybody, I should note that I have not found it to impact 500-800 ASA developed footage, even in the shadows after aggressive color correction. Don't think of this "calibration error" as the camera not being ready... because it absolutely is.]

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

So what you're saying is the hue shift is exclusive to footage pushed in redcine-x. We shouldn't expect our last 3 stops in the shadows to be have a warm shift?