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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The 8K lens dillema..

I figure cp2 or cannon cine or xenons are the obvious choices but I may just get retro anamorphic glass and forgo caring about 8k coverage after much thought on this
 
Focus with FF cameras like the 5D is already so shallow and difficult, if 8K has a larger image circle than FF then maybe 7K or whatever resolution equals FF is good enough for almost everything. If you need to build new lenses for an extra 10%, I'd say to shoot on the Alexa 65mm with 65mm glass and get a real kick. I think RED originally had the right idea when they said they were going to make FF sensors followed by 6x4.5,6x7,6x9,6x17 - Then there would be great, affordable, existing glass for all of those formats.
 
Wynn Padula said:
Focus with FF cameras like the 5D is already so shallow and difficult, if 8K has a larger image circle than FF then maybe 7K or whatever resolution equals FF is good enough for almost everything. If you need to build new lenses for an extra 10%, I'd say to shoot on the Alexa 65mm with 65mm glass and get a real kick. I think RED originally had the right idea when they said they were going to make FF sensors followed by 6x4.5,6x7,6x9,6x17 - Then there would be great, affordable, existing glass for all of those formats.
Click to expand...

By all accounts, most FF35 lenses should cover 8K fine. Christopher Probst used a Canon 24 L at 8K, and it covered with no vignetting (see his Eminem "Phenomenom" thread).
 
With the 5ds and 5dsr from Canon, the "8K" question is also a Canon question these days -- of course I'm aware it is not motion.

Canon published a list what they think will be "good enough" for their full-frame 8+K sensor. As someone mentioned "cost", here we go:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/06/canon-releases-recommended-lenses-for-eos-5ds-eos-5ds-r/

Max. Res. 50.3MP 8688x5792

=====

So, am I completely looking into the wrong direction by positing that here? ;o)
If so, all the lenses that are not even considered from Canon to be good enough, might be at least ignorable then.
 
Dr. Sassi said:
With the 5ds and 5dsr from Canon, the "8K" question is also a Canon question these days -- of course I'm aware it is not motion.

Canon published a list what they think will be "good enough" for their full-frame 8+K sensor. As someone mentioned "cost", here we go:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/06/canon-releases-recommended-lenses-for-eos-5ds-eos-5ds-r/

Max. Res. 50.3MP 8688x5792

=====

So, am I completely looking into the wrong direction by positing that here? ;o)
If so, all the lenses that are not even considered from Canon to be good enough, might be at least ignorable then.
Click to expand...

Canon retracted that list btw as it was, erm.... silly-ish.

There are many lenses Canon and others make that "can" resolve decently on their newest sensor. Which will also hold true for RED Weapon 8K Dragon.
 
Wynn Padula said:
Focus with FF cameras like the 5D is already so shallow and difficult, if 8K has a larger image circle than FF then maybe 7K or whatever resolution equals FF is good enough for almost everything.
Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind is your final delivery resolution. Though, in this day and age you will deliver many resolutions. If you plan to deliver at 3840x2160, for example, then ideally you would want to shoot at 7680x4320 on the 8k sensor for a nice 2:1 downscale in each direction. With a really good scaling engine this does not matter as much. The image circle for 7680x4320 is around 44.06mm. It is what I am planning to shoot at, just hoping the Otus cover it.
 
Leica R is the best bet for your 8K vista vision / dragon shooting.. fantastic look and big 36x24 coverage

I have a full set of 5, 19/24/35/50/90 all rehoused in PL mount for sale in the FOR SALE section

K35 lenses are also an amazing choice

all the lenses will cover 36x24 and some more

the main thing to understand about this sensor is the following:

vistavision is about 1.5x super 35 in terms of horizontal resolution

so focal length angle of views change

hence a 24mm is more like an 18 on super 35

so really you need longer focal lengths more

24/35/50/85/100/135 is similar to a 18/25/32/50/75/100 set

also almost any cine lens that has a focal length of 50mm or longer should easily cover the full frame sensor. they may not illuminate evenly, but they WILL cover it.
a lot of rangefinder shooters shoot with the cooke S2 50mm,75mm,100mm cine lenses, because they all cover full frame.

another trick is to use panspherons or other wide angle adapters as they dont influence the image circle.

if u shoot a 50mm with a .8x you now have a 40
if u shoot a 40mm with a .8x you now have a 32
if u shoot a 35mm with a .8x you now have a 28 which is focal length equivalent to a 20mm in S35 terms

some excellent wide angles that will fully cover :

Leica R 15/3.5 (rehoused one can be found)
Canon 14/2.8
Contax 15/4

also I heard IBE is making a PL to PL extender that will give you a full frame image circle with a extended focal length (1.1-1.3x) that will lose 1/4-2/3 a stop of light

anyways, hope this helps
 
What do you guys think would be better, the new Cooke anamorphic zoom or entry level pl simply for FF35 coverage? I really like the anamorphic look so I dream of owning the cooke zoom or Kowas but if my largest sensor camera is red 8k and my Amira needs a third party monitor to view desqueezed I have to wonder what to buy. Im fortunate to not yet have committed substantial money to any format so I can go anyway with it. If the entry level pl options fail to cover medium format converted surely will and seeing Phil having a medium format set done at duclos makes me wonder how many ff35 sets like xeen or cp2, etc will have issues on the wides.. Maybe none in 16/9 but FF is hugggggeee looking! So any opinions on anamorphic vs cheap spherical I'd be interested in hearing thanks

ps maybe I'm better getting medium format now for if they make a 65 next ?
 
How about the Celeres lenses? They have 43mm Image circle...and look quite interesting. Good mechanics too..

You can find out more on their site:

https://celerelenses.com

Looks like they are making them in PL and EOS (a 50mm EOS has been teased on FB I believe).

Have 77mm thread.

And plan to have this lens lineup: 16, 18, 21, 25, 35, 50, 85, 135.

Whether ALL of those will cover 43mm I'm not sure...I can't imagine they'd all be 1.4 either...

As of now, looks like they're selling for $3K each...
 
Interesting, I'm not sure what to go for myself. Anamorphic looks so much better than spherical to me but it's tough to justify when none cover... So I start think cp2 or even otus look good but then i miss the flares, ovals, bokeh, FOV I truly like more... I wonder what 8k full height looks like anamophic wise? Very exciting times I kind of want a spherical set that covers too but thankfully all seem cheap even medium format. Arri lds in their modified hassleblad for Alexa 65 along with Panavision seem great for high end applications
 
Just get the outs, and covers rest of the wide angle with sigma arts- cinemoded.

you are covered.

21mm 1.4 24mm 1.4 28mm 1.4(outs), 35mm 1.4, 55mm 1.4(otus) and 85mm 1.4(otus), and rest of the focal length may covered with 80-200 cine zoom :)

its ultimate speed prime sets for now in a cheap investment.
 
Very true but I think the OG cp2s may end up pulling better but I haven't tested Otus yet. Xeens have too much CA I think based on my recent tests. Staying PL is another minor gripe of mine as well otherwise I need canon mounts for my red and arris.. Though I suppose that's a stupid argument if EF ends up being usable for me cuz it's so cheap. I really look forward to knowing what covers though before I purchase anything. But please chime in guys on what your lens plans are. I think I'll go test out otus when I get back from vacation
 
Isn't 8K full height essentially the same as 4 perf 35mm? So in essence, the approx FOV for anamorphics from film or Alexa with 4:3 sensor, no? It's certainly tempting, but it's a very specific look. And you are cutting a lot of your true resolution in service to that look, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but something that has to be weighed along with everything else. Unless you're shooting mostly feature narrative work and you have a personal relationship with a particular set of anamorphic lenses that you really love, I'd think you could get more mileage with spherical primes, especially if they cover FF35. I'm not currently in the 8k cue, but I'm very happy that I set out to build a nice Leica-R set when I first got into Epic...the size and look and coverage have served me very well. The mechanics are passable, especially on smaller work, but you'll definitely get some groans from ACs who can't see past the cinemod shortcomings to behold the glory of the glass. Also not great as a rental item that you can send out willy-nilly, as I've learned the hard way. If they were rehoused and PL, properly collimated, etc., there'd be a lot more to like about them.

I'm personally on the fence about PL vs EF mount...I do think that PL is a standard for a reason, and lens changes are a small bummer on the canon mount when compared to PL, though the benefits of a Sigma Art system when combined with RT motion / Latitude / OMOD / Foolcontrol for a smaller, more discreet filming package that remains fully functional, should not be underestimated. As I said before, the idea of a rehoused set of Leica R's is pretty exciting, and does lend some viability in a rental situation that most EF anything may not (maybe the CN-E's or CP2's buck this trend a little, but PL is nearly always more desirable in a big rental market, I would think). A decent middle ground is the Allstar A-mount system, which gives the R's, as well as many other mount options a PL style interface and feel, and allows you to mix various mount glass, including PL, all without changing the mount on the camera. Pretty nice mixing the Leicas with PL zooms as you would any other lens change.

Anyway, sorry for helping you along on your fence-sitting. Maybe the answer is finding a really nice condition Anamorphic set, but building a less expensive EF spherical set that can cover you when you need a less stylized look or need to stay light. Good luck with your search...
 
I would think 35mm anamorphics would cover a 1.20 area of the 8K sensor for a final unsqueezed ratio of 2.40 -- anamorphic lenses cover the 18.6mm (approx.) height of 4-perf 35mm and isn't the 8K sensor something like 21.6mm high? They don't have to cover the width of the sensor.
 
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