Talk me into keeping my Scarlet-W order

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I have a Scarlet-W preorder in, but I'm strongly considering cancelling it when it comes up due to several issues with Weapon cameras. Please help talk me into wanting to actually buy the camera when my order comes up! Here are some concerns, some that I recently discovered and some that have bothered me since R1/Epic/Scarlet

1. There does not seem to be anywhere that states what framerates and compression ratios are available for each format, particularly 5kHD or 4.5kHD. It's very frustrating that all specs list mainly WS mode framerates which usually don't correlate to other formats bearing the same frame width designation (5k, 4.5k, 4k, etc). Perhaps someone knows where I can find this chart, but I have not found it yet.

2. LUT system seems convoluted and very limited, one of the main selling points of Scarlet-W over Raven is it has the same LUT capabilities as other Weapons, but I tried it out and you can't bake LUTs into ProRes recordings and LUTs get copied into every clip folder but there is no link to them in metadata and actually viewing with the LUT you used on set requires manually enabling a post-effect in RC-X. Also prores recordings are only RedLogFilm?? Is that right?

3. No 4k output for monitoring at all, no mention of plans to add it though perhaps its assumed, even though all 4k consumer cameras an some phones can do 4k over HDMI, not to mention all the other pro cameras that can do 4k HDMI and SDI and RAW externally. Sometimes we need to see 4k on a monitor or send 4k to a recorder to get 4k ProRes for easy delivery. Epic improved upon R1's 720p monitoring with its 1080p monitoring but this new body does not improve at all even when all 4k competitors >$1k have 4k monitoring outputs.

4. Still buggy. In the few minutes I used a weapon camera body to test its capabilities recently, it developed weird tearing on the LCD and monitor outputs that required a reboot and weird touchscreen issues that made it a pain to operate.

5. No expanded focus during recording. I hope I'm wrong about this but is it possible they still don't have this and still dont have 4k monitoring, so there is no real way to know any shot with any movement in it is actually in acceptable focus for anything >1080p?

6. Soft 1:1 pixels. I remember pixel peeping on my old Scarlet-X and always feeling the image was super soft and I chalked it up to an aggressive OLPF, but playing around with a weapon body I shot some tests in admittedly limited lighting (at the NYC RED Store) and then pixel peeped them and could barely find any difference in sharpness between a 5k and 1080p the 5k looked so soft in RC-X.

7. 30sec+ bootup time? Is that for real? How has it gotten worse since Epic/Scarlet? Is that a side-effect of Dragon? I'm used to cameras that start up in ~5sec and last for 4hrs on a small battery and I'm starting to think a Scarlet-W would be a huge burden on any kind of run-and-gun or lower budget work where I would prefer not to have to carry and change batteries nor have the luxury of making everyone hold while I change bricks and then wait for it to boot. Not looking forward to having to carry a battery kit that weighs more than the rest of the camera package again...

8. No ergonomic control. Seems like so many competing cameras have some kind of capability to be used with ergonomic control devices such as an included grip with menu control etc for fast access to functions. Seems like the best option for Scarlet-W is still a laggy touchscreen? When I was testing it out at the store, half a dozen times when I tried to press a button it registered my touches incorrectly and would change my whitebalance, which is especially annoying since you cant undo a setting change like that easily if you dont know the exact setting it was at. Overall the menus still seemed pretty laggy at least for a system that relies so heavily on swiping/scrolling which is an action that calls for fast response times. It's not as bad as Sony's F55/F5/FS7 menus but it was a pain compared to a lot of other cameras I'm used to.

9. No options for focal reducers, built-in ND, etc. Are there still IR contamination concerns? It's so nice to have a camera with built-in ND that you know will never interfere with your image as far as color quality and color cast or IR contamination and is so easy to engage at a moment's notice. And focal reducers sure make life easier even using cameras more sensitive than a Scarlet-W, so it could be really hard to go back to lower sensitivity which is further exacerbated by no longer have options for focal reducing optics.

I'd love to be wrong on any of these points so please offer solutions or counterarguments so I can justify wanting this camera for any practical reason besides its impressive DR (though still not even as impressive as the old Alexa).

I understand this is designed as a cinema camera, so perhaps its by design that it won't be an appropriate camera for doc, event, reality, or any other run-and-gun style shooting, but I can see how it could become cumbersome compared to Sony/Canon/Arri even on ultra-low-budget narrative cinema work. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the other technology I've been using since I sold my Scarlet-X, but I feel it has made me so much more efficient and effective in many cases, it's sad to see RED has not evolved on any of those fronts.

 

[Nick Morrison]

You dont have to use the touch screen.

Theres also the sidekick.

5K is very sharp. The "sharpness" just needs to be dialed in in post. RED doesnt apply any artificial sharpening during capture.

Not sure what else to say - Im personally stoked for Scarlet-W.

Boot times/lags will improve.

If you want built in ND, try Motion Mount.

 

[jordan levy]

well its a trade off in some cases, sony looks overly like video, canon shoots h264 and arri is much bigger and not native 4k and way more expensive.
im sure the bugs will be worked out, and much faster then when epics were first introduced.
i personally dont care about luts in camera, the client can look at at rec709 equivalent and ill give the dit some looks to dial in.
that's all i got.

 

[Howard Kan]

Noah I feel you completely. c300/fs7 are great options as far as overall build quality/functionality but 8-10bit 422 will never come close to 12-16bit RAW. It's the sacrifice you have to make, rigging it up to be usable for run and gun situations. If image quality isn't important to clients then sell your scarlet-w to me

I've heard that if you can't make the camera investment cost back within half a year, don't get it.

Here's a great article about compressed codecs vs raw and bit depth.
http://nofilmschool.com/2012/10/why-dslrs-are-no-match-for-blackmagic-cinema-camera

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I am a little concerned about actual resolution—as in resolved detail—on the 5k Scarlet W (or let's say the Dragon sensor).

I am not talking about acutance, or perceived detail here. I know .r3d files don't have internal camera sharpening and that is fine. Can someone point to a test on the current gen sensor that shows resolved line pairs or similar?

More specifically I'd like to see a significant bump in detail going from my 1Dc 4k to Scarlet W 5k (and I'm not all that sure that is the case). The 1Dc uses a sensor size similar to Dragon 6k and does a clean pixel readout with intra frame compression.

When the European Broadcast Union tested the Epic Dragon they dismissed its 4k modes for 4k delivery, said that 6k was good and felt that 5k "probably is ok".

Again: why isn't there a huge archive of .r3ds in various formats that we can download and look at?

EDIT: by the way Noah, the lowest compression ratios can be found in the product spec on red.com:

5:1 REDCODE for 5K (5120 × 2700) at 24 fps
9:1 REDCODE for 5K (5120 × 2700) at 48 fps
3:1 REDCODE for 4K (4096 × 2160) at 24 fps
7:1 REDCODE for 4K (4096 × 2160) at 60 fps

They are not always 100% up to date. I think the top line should say 5:1 at 25 fps. But it gives you the ballpark figure.

EDIT 2: just rechecked your post and I guess you are looking for the complete list of frame rates and compression ratios.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

For reference, my current primary A-camera is a Sony fs700+7q+. This system does 12b raw as well as 120fps bursts at 4k at full readout in raw or 10b 4k prores. It also is essentially full frame with my speedbooster ultra and lasts all day on two small batteries and inexpensive fast ssds. Also it has full LUT capabilities and built in ND with a clear option (vs motion mount which is always cutting light). It also looks as nearly as sharp at 1:1 as it does at 1080p without any artificial sharpening which always seems so much sharper than RED. Oh and it has analog gain for pretty clean low light shooting beyond what Scarlet-w seems to be capable of, though with reduced highlight DR. Oh and I can magnify the 4k image on both the 7q and the onboard screen while recording which is extremely useful for checking focus which I do a ton.

I guess I'm not totally convinced the Scarlet-w won't be frustrating when it slows me down or is hard to operate comfortably without assistance. How do I control it when it's on my shoulder? Hopefully someone will make a cool ipod touch grip that puts fool control at the operators hand?

Sorry my post is all negative, clearly I see many positives with scarlet-w as I did order one and have owned red equipment before. But I figure those are known and givens. Though I wouldn't say at all that Sony looks like video given log and LUT capabilities...

 

[Bob Gundu]

My problem with the Sony fs700, is that the footage looks like Sony fs700.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Noah I feel you completely. c300/fs7 are great options as far as overall build quality/functionality but 8-10bit 422 will never come close to 12-16bit RAW. It's the sacrifice you have to make, rigging it up to be usable for run and gun situations. If image quality isn't important to clients then sell your scarlet-w to me

I've heard that if you can't make the camera investment cost back within half a year, don't get it.

Here's a great article about compressed codecs vs raw and bit depth.
http://nofilmschool.com/2012/10/why-dslrs-are-no-match-for-blackmagic-cinema-camera

Problem is image quality depends on the scene. I don't doubt Scarlet-W will give me better image quality in any circumstance where the scene contains >12stops of detail with plenty of light, but I worry that that may not be worth all the tradeoffs given how much more it will cost me to in time and budget to light for it at night, not to mention support it on set everyday. For example I'd love to take it on some of the Doc shoots I do but I just worry I'd be fighting it and end up wishing for my FS700+7q at times.

Also that article specifically compares blackmagic 12b raw to 8b YUV which does not necessarily carry over to all implementations of RAW or 8b etc. It seems to focus on highlight recovery which is not quite as drastic in other implementations, for example I don't think you'd get that much highlight recovery comparing YUV RedLogFilm to REDCODE RAW or comparing Sony SLog2/3 to Sony RAW. And as far as data precision it seems 10bit log is as efficient as 12bit linear raw.

That's my other worry about Scarlet-W, I bought my Scarlet-X when it came out and it never quite went out on as many jobs as my Sony gear and I'm afraid it will be the same with Scarlet-W given its limitations. Obviously that may say more about the jobs I do, but I guess Scarlet-W would be more appropriate for the work I want to do more of, but that doesn't mean it will help me do more of it.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

My problem with the Sony fs700, is that the footage looks like Sony fs700.

How would you describe the difference between the Sony fs700+7Q with a LUT applied compared to a Scarlet-W with a matched LUT applied? Problem is I know a lot of people say Sony has a look and maybe I've been using Sony too long but the basic Sony TypeA LUT designed to look like the Alexa 709 look seems pretty darn close not to mention so many other great LUTs designed for the camera's output. Do you think somehow a Sony look or FS700 is retained even after LUTting and even grading? If so can you explain what you mean?

 

[jordan levy]

My problem with the Sony fs700, is that the footage looks like Sony fs700.

yes, that is my problem with all sony cameras. exactly.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I personally feel the Scarlet-W is going to be a tremendous camera. You could shoot a feature on it EASILY. That's enough for me.

 

[Hugh Scully]

That's my other worry about Scarlet-W, I bought my Scarlet-X when it came out and it never quite went out on as many jobs as my Sony gear and I'm afraid it will be the same with Scarlet-W given its limitations. Obviously that may say more about the jobs I do, but I guess Scarlet-W would be more appropriate for the work I want to do more of, but that doesn't mean it will help me do more of it.

This is salient. If the work you want to do relies on capturing beautiful images then get the Scarlet-W. That is all the convincing I got

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

This is salient. If the work you want to do relies on capturing beautiful images then get the Scarlet-W. That is all the convincing I got

Yes but I thought that about the Scarlet-X when I pre-ordered that too, and it ended up being pretty disappointing for me, partly because it required several repairs despite infrequent use and partly because it wasn't all that much better than my Sony camera at the time which because of it's flexibility and ease of use ended up going out on more jobs. I'm hoping the image quality of Scarlet-W is enough to improve on that but I'm not totally convinced, and my recent trip to the RED Store to test out the Weapon left me very underwhelmed with most of the perceived improvements.

 

[Hugh Scully]

Yes but I thought that about the Scarlet-X when I pre-ordered that too, and it ended up being pretty disappointing for me, partly because it required several repairs despite infrequent use and partly because it wasn't all that much better than my Sony camera at the time which because of it's flexibility and ease of use ended up going out on more jobs. I'm hoping the image quality of Scarlet-W is enough to improve on that but I'm not totally convinced, and my recent trip to the RED Store to test out the Weapon left me very underwhelmed with most of the perceived improvements.

Yeah. If you don't perceive any improvement in the image over the FS700 combo you have now then it's a hard job to convince you. The first time I shot with the Scarlet X and worked with an accomplished colorist on that project that was it for me. It wasn't even the Dragon sensor which I doubled my own investment to get.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Yes but I thought that about the Scarlet-X when I pre-ordered that too, and it ended up being pretty disappointing for me, partly because it required several repairs despite infrequent use and partly because it wasn't all that much better than my Sony camera at the time which because of it's flexibility and ease of use ended up going out on more jobs. I'm hoping the image quality of Scarlet-W is enough to improve on that but I'm not totally convinced, and my recent trip to the RED Store to test out the Weapon left me very underwhelmed with most of the perceived improvements.

Going to the RED store isn't a great way todo a test - as its so limiting, and there's no way to be rigirous. Id suggest trying a rental when cams become avail.

Also, bear in mind...you're comparing experiences with Scarlet MX...with a Scarlet-W, which is SECOND GEN Dragon, and a far more formidable camera with few (if any) equals at its price point.

We shoot only Dragon, and it blows our original Scarlet MX out of the water. To think @ 5K Scarlet-W could be even BETTER...is hard for me to fathom...and gets me really excited.

Then again - we get all our footage graded, so Im used to seeing the subleties of Dragon and what can be pulled from the extremes. We dont really rely on a LUT workflow. We shoot for lattitude on set, and grade later. And in that environment - Scarlet-W should really shine...

Just my 2 cents...

For whatever its worth....

 

[Ugo Del]

Don't keep your order, people who really want it are waiting

 

[Phil Holland]

I have a Scarlet-W preorder in, but I'm strongly considering cancelling it it comes up due to several issues with Weapon cameras. Please help talk me into wanting to actually buy the camera when my order comes up! Here are some concerns, some that I recently discovered and some that have bothered me since R1/Epic/Scarlet

1. There does not seem to be anywhere that states what framerates and compression ratios are available for each format, particularly 5kHD or 4.5kHD. It's very frustrating that all specs list mainly WS mode framerates which usually don't correlate to other formats bearing the same frame width designation (5k, 4.5k, 4k, etc). Perhaps someone knows where I can find this chart, but I have not found it yet.

2. LUT system seems convoluted and very limited, one of the main selling points of Scarlet-W over Raven is it has the same LUT capabilities as other Weapons, but I tried it out and you can't bake LUTs into ProRes recordings and LUTs get copied into every clip folder but there is no link to them in metadata and actually viewing with the LUT you used on set requires manually enabling a post-effect in RC-X. Also prores recordings are only RedLogFilm?? Is that right?

3. No 4k output at for monitoring at all, no mention of plans to add it though perhaps its assumed, even though all 4k consumer cameras an some phones can do 4k over HDMI, not to mention all the other pro cameras that can do 4k HDMI and SDI and RAW externally. Sometimes we need to see 4k on a monitor or send 4k to a recorder to get 4k ProRes for easy delivery. Epic improved upon R1's 720p monitoring with its 1080p monitoring but this new body does not improve at all even when all 4k competitors >$1k have 4k monitoring outputs.

4. Still buggy. In the few minutes I used a weapon camera body to test its capabilities recently, it developed weird tearing on the LCD and monitor outputs that required a reboot and weird touchscreen issues that made it a pain to operate.

5. No expanded focus during recording. I hope I'm wrong about this but is it possible they still don't have this and still dont have 4k monitoring, so there is no real way to know any shot with any movement in it is actually in acceptable focus for anything >1080p?

6. Soft 1:1 pixels. I remember pixel peeping on my old Scarlet-X and always feeling the image was super soft and I chalked it up to an aggressive OLPF, but playing around with a weapon body I shot some tests in admittedly limited lighting (at the NYC RED Store) and then pixel peeped them and could barely find any difference in sharpness between a 5k and 1080p the 5k looked so soft in RC-X.

7. 30sec+ bootup time? Is that for real? How has it gotten worse since Epic/Scarlet? Is that a side-effect of Dragon? I'm used to cameras that start up in ~5sec and last for 4hrs on a small battery and I'm starting to think a Scarlet-W would be a huge burden on any kind of run-and-gun or lower budget work where I would prefer not to have to carry and change batteries nor have the luxury of making everyone hold while I change bricks and then wait for it to boot. Not looking forward to having to carry a battery kit that weighs more than the rest of the camera package again...

8. No ergonomic control. Seems like so many competing cameras have some kind of capability to be used with ergonomic control devices such as an included grip with menu control etc for fast access to functions. Seems like the best option for Scarlet-W is still a laggy touchscreen? When I was testing it out at the store, half a dozen times when I tried to press a button it registered my touches incorrectly and would change my whitebalance, which is especially annoying since you cant undo a setting change like that easily if you dont know the exact setting it was at. Overall the menus still seemed pretty laggy at least for a system that relies so heavily on swiping/scrolling which is an action that calls for fast response times. It's not as bad as Sony's F55/F5/FS7 menus but it was a pain compared to a lot of other cameras I'm used to.

9. No options for focal reducers, built-in ND, etc. Are there still IR contamination concerns? It's so nice to have a camera with built-in ND that you know will never interfere with your image as far as color quality and color cast or IR contamination and is so easy to engage at a moment's notice. And focal reducers sure make life easier even using cameras more sensitive than a Scarlet-W, so it could be really hard to go back to lower sensitivity which is further exacerbated by no longer have options for focal reducing optics.

I'd love to be wrong on any of these points so please offer solutions or counterarguments so I can justify wanting this camera for any practical reason besides its impressive DR (though still not even as impressive as the old Alexa).

I understand this is designed as a cinema camera, so perhaps its by design that it won't be an appropriate camera for doc, event, reality, or any other run-and-gun style shooting, but I can see how it could become cumbersome compared to Sony/Canon/Arri even on ultra-low-budget narrative cinema work. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the other technology I've been using since I sold my Scarlet-X, but I feel it has made me so much more efficient and effective in many cases, it's sad to see RED has not evolved on any of those fronts.

1. Scarlet-W's available REDCODE RAW Compression Ratios are available in the newest revision of the DSMC Media Operations Guide here:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/red_3/downloads/manuals/DSMC_Media_Ops_Guide/DSMC_Media_Operation_Guide_Rev-V.pdf

2. I'll write something up on expanded use of 3D LUTs in and out of camera with and without ProRes and eventually DNxHD/HR (not implemented yet in current firmware). Bigger post than I can make here to clarify things, but you can "make" ProRes whatever you want in terms of Color and Gamma Space.

3. There will be some sort of 4K Module/Expander similar to the concept of the REDCAST Module I imagine.

4. There is an occasional/rare bug where the feed on the LCD/EVF cuts diagonally and appears disjointed. This doesn't effect the recorded image and is solved at the moment through a reboot. This will likely be fixed in a future firmware update.

5. If you are talking about a 1:1 recording area during record, yes there currently isn't something like this in the camera. There are however In Camera Focus Tools such as Focus Check, Edge Focus Check, and 1:1 Magnification prior to record. Might be something that can be implemented in a future firmware update if enough people want it.

6. The Dragon sensor has a less aggressive OLPF and is inherently sharper from the get go compared to Mysterium-X. However, the big thing you must consider versus the cameras you are currently using is that REDCODE RAW is not processed, sharpened, or noise reduced in camera whatsoever. Don't know about your test in the RED Store, but there's a few ways to work here. For instance scaling 5K captured footage to 4K will yield higher quality/more detailed images than shooting at 4K. Additionally, since you've brought up ProRes output, you can indeed sharpen that in camera if you so desire. I wouldn't recommend going past 25% typically, but it does work like a charm.

7. 21 seconds last time I timed it. It used to be about twice that, but a firmware update a bit ago brought it down to that level. I've not found this to be a big deal at all on 1.5-2.5 hour battery solutions on set. But if you are used to something you are used to something. The camera does a great deal of things and checks during boot. Future boot time improvements may occur.

8. The nearest thing that's on the horizon for ergonomically minded control is the upcoming DSMC[SUP]2 [/SUP] Side Handle, which is very ergonomic in terms of grabbing the camera by a very DSLR-like (more like a specific medium format handle actually when I think of it). There are many user defined buttons you can set on the new Side Handle, it's just not out yet. Don't know about the touch issues you had in the store, but it depends largely how you press rather than quickly poking.

9. IR Contamination is vastly reduced to a near non-existent level with the Dragon sensor and all 3 of the currently available OLPFs. This has been personally one of my favorite improvements as it's better than most of the competing systems out there when it comes to color purity and consistency, which is huge deal. Color out of Dragon is pretty much ranks 1st or 2nd place when it comes to currently available digital cinema cameras depending on which side of the fence you land. You are correct that there is no mechanic ND in camera. Focal reducers in the form of say E-Mount will not work with these cameras. That doesn't necessarily mean that Focal Reducers for all types of lenses don't work. It's a Super 35mm system already however, sound more like you are aiming for the light gathering and FOV benefits of the reducer perhaps.

Hope that helps answer some of those Qs.

To your final point i've now used Weapon on virtually all styles of shoots since getting it a several months ago. It's suitable for all of the types of fast production-style of filming you describe. Don't know why it wouldn't be really. But you are correct in the assessment that it's a cinema camera first. But hey, they used to shoot reality TV on film and that was actually hard.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Yeah. If you don't perceive any improvement in the image over the FS700 combo you have now then it's a hard job to convince you. The first time I shot with the Scarlet X and worked with an accomplished colorist on that project that was it for me. It wasn't even the Dragon sensor which I doubled my own investment to get.

Oh well I certainly perceive some improvement in image comparing dragon to a fs700+7q, if I didn't I wouldn't even be here with a preorder in and thinking about this. That is the only reason I would even consider swallowing various listed possible inconveniences and costs to potentially upgrade to a Scarlet.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Don't keep your order, people who really want it are waiting

Thanks for your help

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

1. Scarlet-W's available REDCODE RAW Compression Ratios are available in the newest revision of the DSMC Media Operations Guide here:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/red_3/downloads/manuals/DSMC_Media_Ops_Guide/DSMC_Media_Operation_Guide_Rev-V.pdf

2. I'll write something up on expanded use of 3D LUTs in and out of camera with and without ProRes and eventually DNxHD/HR (not implemented yet in current firmware). Bigger post than I can make here to clarify things, but you can "make" ProRes whatever you want in terms of Color and Gamma Space.

3. There will be some sort of 4K Module/Expander similar to the concept of the REDCAST Module I imagine.

4. There is an occasional/rare bug where the feed on the LCD/EVF cuts diagonally and appears disjointed. This doesn't effect the recorded image and is solved at the moment through a reboot. This will likely be fixed in a future firmware update.

5. If you are talking about a 1:1 recording area during record, yes there currently isn't something like this in the camera. There are however In Camera Focus Tools such as Focus Check, Edge Focus Check, and 1:1 Magnification prior to record. Might be something that can be implemented in a future firmware update if enough people want it.

6. The Dragon sensor has a less aggressive OLPF and is inherently sharper from the get go compared to Mysterium-X. However, the big thing you must consider versus the cameras you are currently using is that REDCODE RAW is not processed, sharpened, or noise reduced in camera whatsoever. Don't know about your test in the RED Store, but there's a few ways to work here. For instance scaling 5K captured footage to 4K will yield higher quality/more detailed images than shooting at 4K. Additionally, since you've brought up ProRes output, you can indeed sharpen that in camera if you so desire. I wouldn't recommend going past 25% typically, but it does work like a charm.

7. 21 seconds last time I timed it. It used to be about twice that, but a firmware update a bit ago brought it down to that level. I've not found this to be a big deal at all on 1.5-2.5 hour battery solutions on set. But if you are used to something you are used to something. The camera does a great deal of things and checks during boot. Future boot time improvements may occur.

8. The nearest thing that's on the horizon for ergonomically minded control is the upcoming DSMC[SUP]2 [/SUP] Side Handle, which is very ergonomic in terms of grabbing the camera by a very DSLR-like (more like a specific medium format handle actually when I think of it). There are many user defined buttons you can set on the new Side Handle, it's just not out yet. Don't know about the touch issues you had in the store, but it depends largely how you press rather than quickly poking.

9. IR Contamination is vastly reduced to a near non-existent level with the Dragon sensor and all 3 of the currently available OLPFs. This has been personally one of my favorite improvements as it's better than most of the competing systems out there when it comes to color purity and consistency, which is huge deal. Color out of Dragon is pretty much ranks 1st or 2nd place when it comes to currently available digital cinema cameras depending on which side of the fence you land. You are correct that there is no mechanic ND in camera. Focal reducers in the form of say E-Mount will not work with these cameras. That doesn't necessarily mean that Focal Reducers for all types of lenses don't work. It's a Super 35mm system already however, sound more like you are aiming for the light gathering and FOV benefits of the reducer perhaps.

Hope that helps answer some of those Qs.

To your final point i've now used Weapon on virtually all styles of shoots since getting it a several months ago. It's suitable for all of the types of fast production-style of filming you describe. Don't know why it wouldn't be really. But you are correct in the assessment that it's a cinema camera first. But hey, they used to shoot reality TV on film and that was actually hard.

Thanks Phil, that's very thorough and helpful as always.

I assume all the focus tools you mention are operating on the 1080p image though? I'd be very interested in your in depth details of the LUT system and how to use it properly. I spent a fair amount of time working my way through it but never found a way to get the ProRes to be in any way affected by the LUTs. It would be great on some jobs to be able to deliver a custom LUTted ProRes along with R3Ds so they see what I saw on set and understand the intent and expectations I had for a given image. If there was some way to have R3Ds automatically reflect any LUT used as well it would be very powerful.

I know there must be a lot of resolution in 5k, but I just know I was amazed how little detail there was when looking at some stuff I shot in the store. I hope it was the lens or the lighting but it does follow with some of my observations in the past shooting with Scarlet-X and feeling it seemed rather soft compared to every other camera system. I hoped that 5k for 4k delivery would compensate for that but I'm not quite convinced. Clearly I need to do more testing. I guess I'm always just baffled that my non-oversampled Sony 4k footage always look so sharp even without any sharpening but RED always seems to need a fair amount of sharpening to get close. Obviously there could be an aliasing tradeoff but I've never been bothered by aliasing in Sony cameras much.