Talk me into keeping my Scarlet-W order

[Karl Kim]

Glad you got something out of the discussion, I definitely did too..

I had a chance to grab an ursa mini4.6k without backorders but I think I'm going to stick to waiting for my Scarlet-W after all. I'm a bit concerned about the package now and thinking I might want to switch to a brain since will likely be better and/or cheaper I/O and control options than the base expander and 4.7" LCD after NAB...

So what about that 4.6K Mini Ursa? The image- it's off topic so you could email your thoughts if inclined: karlkimdp@gmail.com

 

[Dean Butler]

Just wanted to say I found this thread a great read. Thanks for all the contributions. I remember when i got my scarlet mx and finding myself underwhelmed by the 1:1 pixel detail compared to my 5d 1:1 pixel detail (0 sharpness). Even in terms of color out of the box I thought the 5d was generally nicer on skin. But once I learnt how to shoot for the scarlet (and found filmconvert) plus learnt how to work with redcode the image quality jump was staggering. I've come to like the slight red softness, some cameras are too sharp for close ups on talent. Red reminds me more of film. 3k for 1080p is okay, but id never use cropped 2k for 2k. Personally im pretty sold on the scarlet-w. For the price it offers a lot. Im just saving and waiting for ques to go down and software to catch up... and to see what competition nab brings.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

So what about that 4.6K Mini Ursa? The image- it's off topic so you could email your thoughts if inclined: karlkimdp@gmail.com

Actually im back to being a bit on the fence. There is a 4.6k thread on here where John Brawley posted some raw alexa vs 4.6k tests and it's hard to ignore the value. Especially since it seems the 4.6k maybe more of an ISO1600 camera compared to alexa/dragon...

 

[Nick Morrison]

Especially since it seems the 4.6k maybe more of an ISO1600 camera compared to alexa/dragon...

Noah recently posted samples on the other thread of DSMC2 cameras being clean at way ABOVE 1600 - so not sure this statement holds water (at least the Dragon part as it pertains to DSMC2).

 

[Matthew Quinn]

was on a tech scout other night and the weapon was SUPER clean with the LLOLPF over 3000 iso

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

was on a tech scout other night and the weapon was SUPER clean with the LLOLPF over 3000 iso

That sounds great. But we should probably clarify if we're talking about 6k for HD, 6k for 4k or whatever else it might be...

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Noah recently posted samples on the other thread of DSMC2 cameras being clean at way ABOVE 1600 - so not sure this statement holds water (at least the Dragon part as it pertains to DSMC2).

Oh? Could you point me to that?

My concern is that judging sensitivity has a lot to do with scene content. If something is well exposed at ISO 800 and then you just push it a few stops to make it look extra high key that doesn't count. I've seen clean iso6400 images from dragon but that doesn't mean that will be the case in low-light or in low key lighting where little is visible at iso800.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Oh? Could you point me to that?

My concern is that judging sensitivity has a lot to do with scene content. If something is well exposed at ISO 800 and then you just push it a few stops to make it look extra high key that doesn't count. I've seen clean iso6400 images from dragon but that doesn't mean that will be the case in low-light or in low key lighting where little is visible at iso800.

The point?
If You rate for 800, why develop at 6400?
Pushy much? :biggrin:

 

[Jon Betz]

I only had a short time to test my new Scarlet-W before leaving for an extended travel shoot, but as someone coming from over two years on an FS700/7Q combo I think I can provide some insights. I did compare low light very generally between these setups. If you shoot with exposure compensation on the FS700/7Q, you can achieve much cleaner images in low light compared with the Scarlet-W, but that comparison is not apples to apples.

As mentioned previously, RED does not apply noise reduction in camera. The biggest gain with the Scarlet-W for me is color reproduction. The 709A LUTs provided by Convergent Design are actually pretty terrible at skin tone reproduction in my opinion, and require lots of adjustment to get accurate blues and reds. RED color looks great straight out of the camera. For me this alone makes it worth it. Of course if I have control of post I can get great images out of the FA700/7Q, but if I don't, I don't like having to try to convince my clients that my footage will ultimately look good after correction.

I think if shooting in low light is your main priority, the Sonys are probably your best bet. But in my opinion Scarlet-W is a much better all-around camera.

Both setups require a bit of accessorizing to make them suitable for fast run and gun shooting, but at least in RED's case that is by design. Having the option to rig your camera the way you like it is a benefit. I've been shooting run and gun documentary with Epics for years successfully, and feel confident that with a bit of accessorizing the DSMC2 cameras will be even better for this.

As for sharpness, you are right that the FS700/7Q footage, in 4K or in 4KtoHD, is very sharp. But when I compared the two cameras, I immediately found that the image was much more realistic from the RED. The FS700 is just too sharp. The highlight loss with exposure compensation is also a big disadvantage of the 7Q.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Oh? Could you point me to that?

My concern is that judging sensitivity has a lot to do with scene content. If something is well exposed at ISO 800 and then you just push it a few stops to make it look extra high key that doesn't count. I've seen clean iso6400 images from dragon but that doesn't mean that will be the case in low-light or in low key lighting where little is visible at iso800.

Noah I think you're confusing what "Dragon" means...and don't seem to be taking into account that the Dagon sensor inside a DSMC2 camera with all new boards (ie Weapon, Scarlet-W, or Raven) is much cleaner than the original DSMC lineup (ie Epic Dragon and Scarlet Dragon).

I just got word last night from someone I trust (and on the front lines) that WEAPON at 2000ISO is looking as clean (or cleaner) than Epic Dragon @ 800ISO on Lowlight.

 

[Leo Sylvester]

I don't see there being much of a leap in pure image quality between the two. Given how cumbersome the O7Q/fs700 is, the improvements that you will most benefit from are the ease of use/ergonomics/build quality side of things. The fs700 has earned a reputation but in my experience few people are aware of the beautiful image quality that Convergent Design unlocked with their recorder.

We have been a bit spoiled with cameras over the last 5-7 years and I don't see the bar being raised like it was anytime soon.