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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Surprise...?

Jannard said:
We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

BTW, neither Peter nor Steven has asked for this. They seem just fine using an external monitor.

Epic... because it is a fresh sheet of paper design, will support this feature in camera.

Jim
Click to expand...


Hi Jim,

I fully understand your comments regarding us be "impatient". I know I am, way to often in this "area". I am sorry if anything I asked creates a feeling of not being respectful or ignoring what you and your team made a reality for us. I guess no one here is able to thank you in the right way here at all.

That in advance.

You wrote above there is no space. Does that mean that you FPGA etc. code is reaching the limits of the camera and that putting something in could mean something else must be swapped out instead, depending on how much "processor" space a new feature needs?

I just want to understand the situation correctly.

My and others point is that we really love many of the preset modes. Some we use more often, other less, others never. All depends on each individuals needs.

But that again raises in me the question if achieving a single "custom mode" that deals dynamically with different values you can enter via menus, would solve this issue better?

Can you imagine that there is free space to implement something like this, not today, not tomorrow, but in the future?

I really don't like to beg you about this, but no answer to this subject leaves us always with the feeling it might not have been recognized by the RED team. I've never read an official statement to this idea yet. Or I must have missed it and would be very happy if someone can point me to it.

Nevertheless, 4.5k 2.40 : 1 is exactly what we would have used for COLD STORAGE trailer when we shot it early this year. So I guess we could shoot the movie with it. Hooray!


Best wishes,
Axel
 
weirdcrew said:
I believe the problem here is the EVF. Before I got mine I would have said that maybe it didn't matter but now.....

Let's try to figure out how to desqueeze at least the EVF. If it's third party or not.

regards,

Fredrik Callinggard
Click to expand...

..the de-squeeze was one of two issues/requests, lest the other fall by the wayside. (and since there are kind of solutions, sort of, for that, the other is by far the more important)

i.e. being able to record the top/bottom surroundview area in anamorphic mode, so we don't have to crop as much of the frame to extract the 2.35:1 area...
 
Ruairi Robinson said:
Just keeping the pressure on dude, don't take it so hard. You have said yourself a billion times that the camera is a work in progress, so why act defensively when people treat it as such?

If people don't keep harassing you for this stuff, then it'll fall by the wayside. I've mentioned this stuff about a trillion times here, and been ignored every time. At least I got a reaction this time :)

I've spent the last ten years harassing people to support anamorphic lenses better in various things... back in my CG post production days, I got the programmers to give us anamorphic bokeh in VRAY, and Arnold (the renderer that was adapted to use in Monster House) among other things... and it took a lot of harassing to get them to do it. Kind of like the letter writing campaign in The Shawshank redemption.

So why should I stop now?

Put it this way: would you object to incorporating this feature if it were possible? Don't you agree that it would be useful? So why be defensive if people, you know, ask for it... It's not like it would hurt you or your camera to incorporate these suggestions...

Best,
R.
Click to expand...

R. Sorry again for the harsh response. I know you are a good guy. We are just completely worn out. It is a dangerous combination to push ourselves so hard and then try to stay connected to our customers on this board. Nerves are a bit fried.

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Jim
 
Great News. Glad to see the full sensor area being made available. Very cool.

deadkrash said:
And I need Epic why?
You better slow down Jim, now you are starting to compete with yourself.
Click to expand...

Here's a couple reasons - based on the early prototype. (subject to change):

5K Resolution
Possible 4:3 sensor for Anamorphic modes.
New Mysterium X Sensor with faster read refresh times.
Better Dynamic Range and lower Noise Levels.
Smaller and lighter body, fully machined aluminum, Hybrid Stainless PL Mount
1-100 FPS in 5K, and up to 100MB/Sec REDCODE RAW and RGB Recording
Full Size Dual Link HD-SDI (BNC) Outputs, and Full Size (XLR) Inputs.
Built in Cheese Plate on the top side
Larger, easier to navigate set of rear controls
REDFLASH Recording
Wi-Fi control ability
Fully Upgradeable Sensor, Body, Boards, and Mount

Not bad.
 
So Jim, based on all this amazing news, can you throw us a bone about scarlett: 3.5K?, frame rates?, a little something?
 
Jannard said:
It is being finalized but I think we have landed on 4480 x 1874.

Jim
Click to expand...

That is very cool, Thank you. Wouldn't a vertical resolution of 1872 be ideal, so the image size is then divisible by 16 in both dimensions -- for a few extra bytes of compression efficiency.
 
Amazing progress ! Love you guys.
Aloha
-A
 
Jannard said:
R. Sorry again for the harsh response. I know you are a good guy. We are just completely worn out. It is a dangerous combination to push ourselves so hard and then try to stay connected to our customers on this board. Nerves are a bit fried.

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks for letting us know for sure that the desqueeze will not be an option. If it was posted in another thread before hand and I/we missed it than please accept my apologies. I can stop waiting and make other arrangements now.

We know you guys are working hard, proving that with every update you post offering another feature at NC. Keep up the good work and thanks for the update.
 
Jannard said:
We will release a list of what can be recorded to what... and we are looking closely to see if we can coax a bit more data out of the system, but no promises. There are many obstacles to doing this and we are currently very close to the edge.

Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim and RED Team for pushing the envelope, allowing us to do the same with the cameras on our projects.
 
Jannard said:
We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money.
Click to expand...
To be fair, aren't these new features actually leaning closer to EXACTLY what people were expecting when they plunked down their money?

4.5k 2.40 is great and all...but that was on the original spec sheet. In fact, it was closer to 4.5K 1.85 originally IIRC ("resolution to burn").

HD resolutions have been banished from the sheet, as well as RED RAW, and of course the well-missed 2K scaled.

We've got 3K now, but as a stopgap after the promised 4K 60fps has proved difficult/impossible with the camera's electronics.

I'll give you anamorphic, but that's essentially just a sensor crop. I can't imagine that's the toughest technical hurdle you've overcome in this wild journey.

Now of course the standard disclaimer: I love my RED, I was happy with B15 and B16 is indeed as the marketing says, a brand new camera. I love that you're listening to customer feedback and honestly until it came up again, I'd totally forgotten the "4.5K" original spec; 4K is more than enough for me. I don't need HD or 2K scaled in camera, and for high-speed I'll rent a Phantom until Epic comes along.

This is the camera I wanted to have. I'm not saying otherwise. And I know specs are subject to change, so you're perfectly in your rights to make said changes.

I just don't think it's accurate to say there are "more" options than we "dreamed of" when we plunked down our money. If anything, between the promised options that won't be coming, and the new options that were never promised, I'd call it even.
 
I was expecting 4K @ 24fps with start and stop and that is about it. Needless to say I am a very happy camper ! Can't wait to see what Epic has in store for us.
Aloha
-A
 
whether the camera is all things to all men or not, whether it's just now reaching the goals that were set for it from day one, it's still a stunning industry changing achievement.
 
Poi Boy said:
I was expecting 4K @ 24fps with start and stop and that is about it. Needless to say I am a very happy camper ! Can't wait to see what Epic has in store for us.
Aloha
-A
Click to expand...

Me too! That's all the bait needed to get a bite from me, I figured, if I can get 4K DPX regardless of the ratio, and it's at least 24fps, anything else I want can happen by manipulating that data in post. Absolutely everything else in-camera has been a welcome bonus.
 
Hello,

VERY COOL!

Can't wait to check it out!

Now get some rest!

ATF
 
Jannard said:
We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

BTW, neither Peter nor Steven has asked for this. They seem just fine using an external monitor.

Epic... because it is a fresh sheet of paper design, will support this feature in camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

Peter nor Steven?:detective2: I have heard of a Peter and a Steven directing a certain trilogy of movies together. Is this a hint or am I just reading too much into things as usual?
 
DorkmanScott said:
To be fair, aren't these new features actually leaning closer to EXACTLY what people were expecting when they plunked down their money?

4.5k 2.40 is great and all...but that was on the original spec sheet. In fact, it was closer to 4.5K 1.85 originally IIRC ("resolution to burn").

HD resolutions have been banished from the sheet, as well as RED RAW, and of course the well-missed 2K scaled.

We've got 3K now, but as a stopgap after the promised 4K 60fps has proved difficult/impossible with the camera's electronics.

I'll give you anamorphic, but that's essentially just a sensor crop. I can't imagine that's the toughest technical hurdle you've overcome in this wild journey.

Now of course the standard disclaimer: I love my RED, I was happy with B15 and B16 is indeed as the marketing says, a brand new camera. I love that you're listening to customer feedback and honestly until it came up again, I'd totally forgotten the "4.5K" original spec; 4K is more than enough for me. I don't need HD or 2K scaled in camera, and for high-speed I'll rent a Phantom until Epic comes along.

This is the camera I wanted to have. I'm not saying otherwise. And I know specs are subject to change, so you're perfectly in your rights to make said changes.

I just don't think it's accurate to say there are "more" options than we "dreamed of" when we plunked down our money. If anything, between the promised options that won't be coming, and the new options that were never promised, I'd call it even.
Click to expand...

When the camera was announced, there was ONLY 4K out the RAW port, something I doubt you would have ever used. There was no recording to CF card, no REDCODE and no RED Drive. By the time you placed your order (1000+), the RAW port had already come down... so I respectfully disagree with you.

Jim
 
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