Support Your Red One: Tripods Revisited

[Mike Seymour]

I can't vouch for the Red yet.. but Miller makes my favourite sticks in general.

So I figured you might like to know I took #22 into Miller R&D at their HQ last week. We spent half a day with the guys reviewing all options and checking various spring/tensions/centre of Gravity etc
The smallest tripod that works for real work is the Arrow 55. Larger tripods would be needed for big lenses, but we weighted in the RED at 13.4 kg and the Arrow 55 is rated to 25kg - but there was just more to it than that... to do with base plates etc.

A video or quicktime of the Miller guys discussing exactly how to best mount a red is being filmed on Tuesday as part of our RED course... we are also mounting it on a Steadicam etc and discussing issues of weight and balance

Mike

 

[Joel Kaye]

smallest tripod that works for real work is the Arrow 55. Larger tripods would be needed for big lenses, but we weighted in the RED at 13.4 kg and the Arrow 55 is rated to 25kg - but there was just more to it than that...

Woah. That bumps up the price. That's a fairly loaded RED right?

 

[Mike Seymour]

Woah. That bumps up the price. That's a fairly loaded RED right?

That is a very loaded RED but only the 15-50 mm zoom.
So we had a battery and a second battery (simulating the hard drive) - EUV and top and bottom rails.

Red is a professional camera and this is the smallest professional tripod you would want to use. You can mount it to less - but it would not be normal professional practice- in terms of balance, safety, stress, and flexibility.

But as I say if you go for large prime long lens, more matte boxes, filters, follow focuses etc etc you could easily go up one level from the Arrow 55.

Mike

 

[Joel Kaye]

That is a very loaded RED but only the 15-50 mm zoom.
So we had a battery and a second battery (simulating the hard drive) - EUV and top and bottom rails.

Red is a professional camera and this is the smallest professional tripod you would want to use. You can mount it to less - but it would not be normal professional practice- in terms of balance, safety, stress, and flexibility.

But as I say if you go for large prime long lens, more matte boxes, filters, follow focuses etc etc you could easily go up one level from the Arrow 55.

Gotcha.

As long as I've got you, when you offer the RED course will that be something we can sign up for without taking all the other classes in a semester?

I'm guessing you'll cover color corrections, color matching and looks since post is totally integral to RED. Put that one on as soon as you can since people don't actually have to have their cameras yet to benefit.

 

[PaulClements]

I just bought a Panther X-15 for my Red...

I believe this is the one I saw at IBC, the legs on that thing were rock solid. I lent pretty heavily on the side of it and there was literally zero give (Ok maybe microscopic, I'm fairly heavy!). It holds a similar amount to the Oc 1030HD though so it's not too bad.

 

[Charles Adams]

It was interesting actually, we got to talk to Guido Cartoni - The founder of Cartoni (or so I believe). He's an old gem. Full of enthusiasm for his products. He came over to talk to us but was a bit confused with our questions because his English isn't the best, he did however have assistants at hand at all times to answer the questions for us. It was fun watching him demonstrating how all of his tripods worked though, a nice guy and strangely my admiration of his brand has increased in meeting him.

Hey Paul, I don't think that's strange if you consider the reason why we believe in Red had a lot to do with Jim and company's presence on the boards and seeing their enthusiasm first hand. A good point to remember for any business owner - your passion says a lot to customers.

 

[donatello b]

i went with a Sachtler Video 20plus, 100mmm ball with 2 stage HD carbon legs for all around shooting ...
for 2nd Red i'll get something heavier - mitchell base - with 1 stage legs ( standard & baby legs ) ...

 

[Charles Adams]

So I figured you might like to know I took #22 into Miller R&D at their HQ last week. We spent half a day with the guys reviewing all options and checking various spring/tensions/centre of Gravity etc
The smallest tripod that works for real work is the Arrow 55. Larger tripods would be needed for big lenses, but we weighted in the RED at 13.4 kg and the Arrow 55 is rated to 25kg - but there was just more to it than that... to do with base plates etc.

A video or quicktime of the Miller guys discussing exactly how to best mount a red is being filmed on Tuesday as part of our RED course... we are also mounting it on a Steadicam etc and discussing issues of weight and balance

Mike

Thanks for the report, Mike! What would you recommend for a Red setup with Nikon and Zeiss Nikon lenses? That 13.4 kg figure scares me. I believe that is close to 30 lbs?

As you can tell I am new to cameras of this weight so I appreciate any advice you and the community can provide. We will be using the Red Basic Production Kit, matte box and follow focus as well.

Would you say that a tripod head that supports 50lbs or so is the minimum required for Red in digital cinema work (as opposed to ENG)?

 

[Mark B.]

Does anyone have commentary about Libec, or their LS-85M tripod/head?

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I believe this is the one I saw at IBC, the legs on that thing were rock solid. I lent pretty heavily on the side of it and there was literally zero give (Ok maybe microscopic, I'm fairly heavy!). It holds a similar amount to the Oc 1030HD though so it's not too bad.

sorry guys - but I would NOT buy the X-15 (or the 1030D for that matter) - you want BIGGER for sure -

yeah I know - the prices for fluid heads are just WRONG -

Wouldn't if be cool if RED bought O'Connor - and changed the price point ..?

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Does anyone have commentary about Libec, or their LS-85M tripod/head?

I don't know about that Libec, but I have used some of their <$1k tripods (heads and legs) and they are by far the best buy under $1k. Very smooth and well built. I wouldn't mind owning one of their higher end heads if they are as nice as the cheap ones. I am actually looking at either their T-103 legs (if I want two stage) or T-78 one stage legs. I really like their T-98 two stage, but the second stage is just a single pole, and that kinda worries me. Actually, I've had a 20+ lbs beta camera on my Sachtler Video 18 head with Bogen 515 legs and had no issues of twisting or moving. I actually got the Bogen legs over the Libec originally because the Bogen legs would go down to 12". It's really nice not having to always carry a high hat with you for really low shots.

What do you think, if you are going to get two stage legs, should the second stage be double poles also?

Another thing to do is shop ebay. Here are some links:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-20II-T...ryZ30095QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-HOT-PO...ryZ30095QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-18-II-...oryZ3319QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Matthew

 

[John Cordell]

I just weighed the various component of my rig. Here's how the weight breaks down:

Camera + 18-50 Zoom Lens + bottom plate = 16.0 lbs
Battery + Holder = 4.6
4 side handles = 2.0
4 steel rails = 3.0
Chroziel follow focus + 15 to 19mm adapter thingy = 1.2
Matte box = 1.0
EVF + arm = 2.2
LCD + arm (guessing, don't have it yet) = 1.0

Total = 32 lbs

I figure about 3 or 4 pounds of steel rail and side handles are going away, taking it to about 29lbs. My final setup might well move the battery off of the head, which brings me down to about 24lbs. Also, the X-15 has an interesting (optional) flange for mounting viewing options onto the base of the head. Such items will rotate with a pan but not tilt. If the EVF moves onto there, that has me down to about 21 pounds that need to ride on the counter-balance plates of the head. Well within the range of my head (max of 33 lbs).

But I definitely wouldn't advise others to get the X-15 for their Red just yet. It could end up being a mistake. For my use I think I'll be in good shape, but I'm taking a chance at being so close to the top of the range. If I screwed up, I'll sell it and eat the loss and move up. I wouldn't want others along for that ride. Right now I can counterbalance everything I own on the head as long as I keep the center of gravity low.

One of the cool things about the Red is how small and light it is. I want to rig it up accordingly, and not put any poundage of unnecessary extra goo on it.

 

[Joel Kaye]

I just weighed the various component of my rig. Here's how the weight breaks down:

Camera + 18-50 Zoom Lens + bottom plate = 16.0 lbs

Could you weigh these 3 components seperately too?

Also, battery vs. holder would be good to know.

I was hoping someone would post this info. Thanks.

 

[John Cordell]

Could you weigh these 3 components seperately too?

Also, battery vs. holder would be good to know.

I was hoping someone would post this info. Thanks.

Sure, I'll try to soon. Note that all of my weight values were done with a digital bathroom scale, so they aren't super accurate.

My guess on the breakdown of the three components: Camera 10, Lens 3.5, base plate 2.5.

Batteries are about 2.5 pounds, which puts the holder at about 2 pounds.

 

[Curran Giddens]

Sure, I'll try to soon. Note that all of my weight values were done with a digital bathroom scale, so they aren't super accurate.

My guess on the breakdown of the three components: Camera 10, Lens 3.5, base plate 2.5.

Batteries are about 2.5 pounds, which puts the holder at about 2 pounds.

Very helpful info. Thanks for posting this. My head will be max 30lbs. so I might try and mount the battery off of the head too. Oh yeah, I won't be using the side handles either.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Batteries are about 2.5 pounds, which puts the holder at about 2 pounds.

Looks like they sell a smaller battery v-mount which appears to be much lighter... just not sure where it fits. I'm going to try to build mine light.

 

[martinnoweck]

i talked to panther this july, they said that the X15 might be ok for the red, but being conservative they would recommend their T28 - which also has the advantage of having a 150mm mount for the head.

martin

 

[PaulClements]

sorry guys - but I would NOT buy the X-15 (or the 1030D for that matter) - you want BIGGER for sure -

yeah I know - the prices for fluid heads are just WRONG -

Wouldn't if be cool if RED bought O'Connor - and changed the price point ..?

I agree OH, I was commenting on the legs more than anything and it might not have been the X-15 head anyway, I honestly can't remember. The legs were as I said seriously solid though. I got very good impressions from a lot of their kit.

 

[Dan Blanchett]

So I figured you might like to know I took #22 into Miller R&D at their HQ last week. We spent half a day with the guys reviewing all options and checking various spring/tensions/centre of Gravity etc
The smallest tripod that works for real work is the Arrow 55.

Okay, so how did the Miller Arrow 55 perform with this fully loaded RED? Can you provide more feedback? Seems like this is a good entry-level option for folks and (at $5600 or so) a little cheaper than some of the other high-end systems I've seen.

 

[Joe Carney]

Is anyone planning on trying out a Gear Head system? Just wondering.