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Support Your Red One: Tripods Revisited

Now that the final prices have been posted for the O'Connor tripod thread found here, I have until October 15 to decide on which tripod to purchase for Red.

On one hand, there's the O'Connor. Leaning towards the 1030HD and 25L tripod. Around 30lbs capacity (as opposed to the 1030HDS with 40lbs but at the cost of decreasted tilt range).

This setup is slightly more expensive than a comparable Miller Arrow 55, could potentially exceed the weight of the head with some Red setups, and does not include a case. But it's an O'Connor.

Miller Arrow 55 system has greater weight capacity at 55lbs, is cheaper compared to the O'Connor, and includes a case. But how does the Miller Arrow 55 fluid head compare to the O'Connor 1030HD fluid head?

So, what would you recommend?
 
"So, what would you recommend?"

go down to local rental house and try out the heads with a 22lb & 35lb camera on it ...
 
donatello said:
"So, what would you recommend?"

go down to local rental house and try out the heads with a 22lb & 35lb camera on it ...
Click to expand...

That would be great if possible. But unfortunately where I live there are hardly any professional rental houses much less those with equipment like the Miller Arrow 55 or O'Connor if you can believe that.

In many ways, forums like this one are the only ways some of us get our information so I appreciate any help!
 
Charles Adams said:
That would be great if possible. But unfortunately where I live there are hardly any professional rental houses much less those with equipment like the Miller Arrow 55 or O'Connor if you can believe that.

In many ways, forums like this one are the only ways some of us get our information so I appreciate any help!
Click to expand...


We have a RED camera - #22 - we bought a Miller 55 - it has been excellent - other rental houses here have invested in them. Miller R&D - not sales - recommended the 55 - we like it a lot, the head is great.

Mike
 
Thanks for the recommendation of the Miller 55. I'll go check it out -- the local rental house has a reconditioned 55 from their rental fleet for sale at a damn good price. I really would like an O'Connor, but this might be too good a deal to pass up.
 
If anyone is interested in the over 5K price point keep an eye on newprovideo.com - I just picked up a sachtler video 25 full rig with CF legs, spreader etc - for under 6K in great condition
 
re: newprovideo.com...

I took a look, hmm.. some stuff doesn't look too bad. Yep, I'll keep an eye on them. I have to laugh at the Octane MXE Flame set up. $20K -- are they serious??? Discreet doesn't transfer software license, so the software is just installed, there's no support, updates, etc.. Octane MXE systems go for about $600 complete with keyboard, mouse and monitor. ..And that's if you actually find a buyer who wants one.
 
jimarri said:
I've got a Mini-Worrell geared head and love it! If you want to be serious in the narrative film world, you'll have to get (or rent) a geared at some point. Nothing else compares. In the meantime, don't fudge on a fluid head. Get a clunky used O'Conner 50 that's been fully refurbished if you want to save money. Get solid legs, too.

Remember: you're riding a 4K state of the art camera on that thing. You don't want to hack it up just because your head is insufficient. Bad head can ruin a career.
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Cool, I was thinking the same thing. (Narrative film making).
 
For the past two weeks with RED #8 I've been using a Miller Arrow HD tripod, which has the Arrow 55 head. I like it very much. The head is solid and smooth, but the whole tripod is light enough to carry long distances. The sticks I'm using with it are single stage alloy, with a mid-level spreader. Heaviest load I've had on the Arrow 55 has been around 40 pounds - which it handled easily. The Arrow 55 is less expensive than an O'Connor equivalent, but IMO performs every bit as well. Everyone seems to be in a big rush to get an O'Connor, but there are other good tripod solutions out there for RED One. IMO the Miller Arrow HD, with the Arrow 55 head is one of those good alternative solutions.
 
Gibby, thanks for posting this! It makes me feel a lot better about my decision. I've been planning to get an O'Connor all along, but couldn't make the numbers fit (specification numbers and financial ones) and I opted for a reconditioned Miller Arrow 55 system, 2-stage CF sticks, mid-level spreader and a soft bag. It should be arriving next week. Now I'm not sweating so bad over passing on the O'Connor 1030HDS. :)
 
Before opting for lower-end tripods, I'd recommend you go down to a professional dealer or rental house and try all before you buy. You may be surprised to see how much better the high-end tripods are than the low-cost alternatives. And you will know whether you can live with the low-cost version. I suffered with a crummy tripod for several years before I discovered Sachtler - now I won't use anything else.
 
It all depends what lenses you're going to use, but by the sound of it (commercials, musicvideos etc) it seems as if you're going to have Cine lenses (Cooke, Arri Zeiss). Those lenses are often heavy, especially the zooms. I think that you will get up to the weight of minimum 30lbs. I would therefor strongly suggest a tripod/head system that takes 25lbs and upwards. It's going to be pricy (around $10-$12000 new) but don't get fooled and go for a Sachtler video 18 head. Any 100mm bowl is to small. The O'connor 2575 and up is an excellent choice or a Sachtler 25 and upwards. You need the support when you put on the lenses. The RED 300mm is going to need it. The Cartoni's are superb and so are the O'Connors. I will go for Sachtler since I'm in Europe and can get it for a reasonable price.

fred
 
Ed Watkins said:
Hi guys,

What do people think of these as a lower end solution for the RED?
Click to expand...

Don't do it. You'll be sorry.

Do a search, I've got an extensive review on her about the 526 head with the 528XB tripod.

Start calling various supply companies and rental houses and see if you can pick up a B Stock tripod system (lease return, de-commissioned rental unit, etc..). Or even try your luck on ebay. Go with something good that can actually support the weight. Look for Vinten, Sachtler, Miller, O'Connor, etc.. You would be better off cleaning up an old used O'Connor 50D or 50C head that you can pick up for <$400, IMO.

I found that with the 526 head, it only performed well when it was weighted down with 20-25lbs of camera. Anything less and you would have to sandbag the tripod to use the head at the level-3 drag setting. The head had a difficult time holding level with any amount of weight and the counter-balance system was essentially a cosmetic dial rather than a functioning one.
 
weirdcrew said:
Any 100mm bowl is to small. The O'connor 2575 and up is an excellent choice or a Sachtler 25 and upwards. You need the support when you put on the lenses. The RED 300mm is going to need it. The Cartoni's are superb and so are the O'Connors. I will go for Sachtler since I'm in Europe and can get it for a reasonable price.
Click to expand...

For use with RED, I have to disagree on a few of those points. The O'Connor 2575[C] head is overkill, IMO. It's ideal weight range is in the realm of 65 to 85 lbs. You'll have to try pretty hard to get your RED kit that heavy. The RED 300mm weighs about 7lbs. For O'Connor heads, I would recommend the 2060HD if you don't need carry it around and it handles cameras in the 25 to 55lb range very well. If you need a lighter system or something more compact, the 1030HDS is great, but you sacrifice tilt range. You can get by just fine with the 1030HD (this is what Jim himself is using), but it will restrict you if you start to really stack on the accessories and gear.

Cartoni heads are great too, but you'll definitely need one of the larger Gamma heads. Most of the smaller ones won't be enough and forget about using the Focus head - rated at 22lbs, it works best with about a 15lb load.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
For use with RED, I have to disagree on a few of those points. The O'Connor 2575[C] head is overkill, IMO. It's ideal weight range is in the realm of 65 to 85 lbs. You'll have to try pretty hard to get your RED kit that heavy. The RED 300mm weighs about 7lbs...
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Jeff, I think your on the money... I believe red user "Digital F/X" even went so far as too test this out and came to the very same conclusion (If I am wrong please correct me). I hope he reads this and chimes in when he has time.

Jeff, I look forward to hear how you like your Miller 55... she sounds very nice. I am going the rebuilt O'Con 50 w/ ronford sticks route for now. When funds are available, I would like to go w/ the Miller 55 for my mobile work based on Gibby's recommendations... LART will be great for this as well I think for quick impressions.

This is a really helpful thread to say the least... thanks everyone. :)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Don't do it. You'll be sorry.

Do a search, I've got an extensive review on her about the 526 head with the 528XB tripod.

Start calling various supply companies and rental houses and see if you can pick up a B Stock tripod system (lease return, de-commissioned rental unit, etc..). Or even try your luck on ebay. Go with something good that can actually support the weight. Look for Vinten, Sachtler, Miller, O'Connor, etc.. You would be better off cleaning up an old used O'Connor 50D or 50C head that you can pick up for <$400, IMO.

I found that with the 526 head, it only performed well when it was weighted down with 20-25lbs of camera. Anything less and you would have to sandbag the tripod to use the head at the level-3 drag setting. The head had a difficult time holding level with any amount of weight and the counter-balance system was essentially a cosmetic dial rather than a functioning one.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was just curious about the low price point for the 526! I can always count on good advice here, I think I'll look into the Cartoni Gamma.
I like O'Connor's but simply don't have the budget for them at the moment.

There is definitely some price fixing going on with tripods, hugely overpriced for what they are (same goes for Matte boxes).
 
Ed Watkins said:
I like O'Connor's but simply don't have the budget for them at the moment.
Click to expand...

Neither did I... I've ordered the Miller Arrow 55.

There is definitely some price fixing going on with tripods
Click to expand...

Yep... Just as it was with cameras before RED came along. We need someone to shake up the camera support industry. I would, but I'm not that ambitious and have little passion for that niche of this industry. I just want something good to put my camera on so I can shoot something.
 
Ok, so it's $1100 to send back an old O'connor 50D to be fixed. How hard would it be to fix one yourself? Can you fix it enough to function untill you can earn $1100 for it?

This may be a really stupid question along the lines of "How hard is it to make my own Mysterium sensor?" but I'm asking it anyways.
 
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